What's new

Paulinho

Mediocrates

Well-Known Member
Mar 2, 2013
292
1,010
Don't think he was slowing play down tonight at all and he's clearly still pretty rusty in terms of touch...but an assist a goal and a contribution towards the first goal ain't a bad evening's work...nearly another assist as well had Lennon's chip been successful.

I think that's plenty of end product to warrant giving consideration to playing him in the three.

I wouldn't be taking Chadli out of the side yet either, but we'll need quality options throughout the squad this season and that's what its all about in terms of having a successful season on as many fronts as possible.

When will people get this ideal first eleven stuff out of their heads.

Oh I'm with you on the first eleven idea. Absolutely.

I am more than happy to keep him in the squad. It's just I find him incredibly underwhelming on an 18 million investment which, at a club the size of ours, should coincide with someone who forms part of the best 11. The simple fact is I don't see Paulinho taking the position of 7 million pound Chadli in our strongest 11. Despite the fact that it is absolutely a squad game, it is ridiculous to argue that there is no such thing as a first choice player for each position the majority of the time. It would make a mockery of player values if it were not so.

I'm happy to have a strong squad where people can come in and contribute, I just personally find Paulinho to be overpriced and underskilled comparatively to expectations. But that's just me. My opinion is no more valid than anyone elses and Poch's opinion is the only one which really matters. We will just have to wait and see.
 

Mediocrates

Well-Known Member
Mar 2, 2013
292
1,010
I feel rather vindicated by his performance tonight as myself and a handful of others were saying his best position would likely be as one of the 3 behind the striker. I thought he played well and showed several nifty ideas. A lot of our chances came from plays off his foot and it's nice to see him cap the display off with a goal and an assist.

I hope we keep him as backup to Eriksen.

This. This is fine.
 

Mr Pink

SC Supporter
Aug 25, 2010
54,772
99,334
Oh I'm with you on the first eleven idea. Absolutely.

I am more than happy to keep him in the squad. It's just I find him incredibly underwhelming on an 18 million investment which, at a club the size of ours, should coincide with someone who forms part of the best 11. The simple fact is I don't see Paulinho taking the position of 7 million pound Chadli in our strongest 11. Despite the fact that it is absolutely a squad game, it is ridiculous to argue that there is no such thing as a first choice player for each position the majority of the time. It would make a mockery of player values if it were not so.

I'm happy to have a strong squad where people can come in and contribute, I just personally find Paulinho to be overpriced and underskilled comparatively to expectations. But that's just me. My opinion is no more valid than anyone elses and Poch's opinion is the only one which really matters. We will just have to wait and see.

All about opinions mate but you're quite right - we couls debate this to the cows come home, but we'll just have to wait and see what Poch does with him.

He does seem to be improving players though, so I'm hopeful.
 

Mediocrates

Well-Known Member
Mar 2, 2013
292
1,010
I saw a guy who is feeling his way into a new position/role/tactics. I thought at times he looked lost out there, but other times he made plays. I am not going to get fussed whether he stays or goes, I liked that he was moved up to the AM-3 role, since I though he was really lacking in the CM-2 role last week. He is not a finished product up there, but he showed signs of being useful, particularly if you surrounded him with better players - like Eriksen and Lamela, instead of Lennon and Townsend.

All very good points. He's certainly not a bad player. I just hoped for a better footballer. He seems agricultural compared to the aforementioned Eriksen.
 

JayB

Well-Known Member
Aug 24, 2011
6,652
26,046
Paulinho can clearly play in attacking midfield in this system. I was impressed with his pressing tonight, thought he did a good job of harrying the Limassol defense and putting them under pressure.

He was given a lot of stick last season for his defensive contributions, and rightly so, yet he still managed to be one of our top tacklers. Alongside Lamela I think he would be very effective in winning the ball back high up the pitch and creating threatening situations. And if he were to bottle a challenge here or there it wouldn't be nearly as costly as it was last year from holding midfield positions.

There is definitely a place for Paulinho in our squad, if we are going to sell a box to box player it ought to be Dembele IMO.
 

Sweech

Ruh Roh Ressegnon
Jun 27, 2013
6,752
16,378
Oh I'm with you on the first eleven idea. Absolutely.

I am more than happy to keep him in the squad. It's just I find him incredibly underwhelming on an 18 million investment which, at a club the size of ours, should coincide with someone who forms part of the best 11. The simple fact is I don't see Paulinho taking the position of 7 million pound Chadli in our strongest 11. Despite the fact that it is absolutely a squad game, it is ridiculous to argue that there is no such thing as a first choice player for each position the majority of the time. It would make a mockery of player values if it were not so.

I'm happy to have a strong squad where people can come in and contribute, I just personally find Paulinho to be overpriced and underskilled comparatively to expectations. But that's just me. My opinion is no more valid than anyone elses and Poch's opinion is the only one which really matters. We will just have to wait and see.
I don't think we should ever look at players and compare their reported transfer fees as justification on how much or little we value them as footballers. For me once they join the team it's how good are they on the pitch. If they add something to the team it's good enough for me.

In a few years if we add a defender who is more expensive than Fazio (8 million) or Dier (4 million) but can't beat them out for a starting 11 spot should we dislike that player even if they provide a good squad role? I don't think so, I think we should just celebrate the fact we got the other players on the cheap.
 

Mediocrates

Well-Known Member
Mar 2, 2013
292
1,010
I don't think we should ever look at players and compare their reported transfer fees as justification on how much or little we value them as footballers. For me once they join the team it's how good are they on the pitch. If they add something to the team it's good enough for me.

In a few years if we add a defender who is more expensive than Fazio (8 million) or Dier (4 million) but can't beat them out for a starting 11 spot should we dislike that player even if they provide a good squad role? I don't think so, I think we should just celebrate the fact we got the other players on the cheap.


This is very good and fair, but one's expectations of players and their playing merits to a team largely dictate their financial values. Whilst he is here now and therefore deserves support, it is not unreasonable to justify my slight disappointment with Paulinho with the fact that he cost 18 million. Not in the slightest. My chief reservations would be the same had he cost 2 million pounds, i.e. that he is not technically good enough to be an automatic starter in his preferred position, but the fee of course does play a role in how comfortable I am with this. If it didn't then overpaying for players would be no issue, so long as they contributed to the squad in some way. If we need a backup right back, why not pay 25 million for him? It's flawed logic.

I think probably the difference between you and I is I am more analytical financially in my judgements of our players, though this is of course informed principally by what I perceive to be their ability on the pitch.
 

jezz

Well-Known Member
Aug 21, 2013
5,650
8,650
Really think Paulinho will prosper under Pochettino. Has to be played in the three as well, like tonight.

Signs were very good this evening and remember he was flanked by Azza and AT - imagine him interchanging with genuine number ten types in Eriksen and Lamela, could score a bucket load.
Told ya;)
 

Sweech

Ruh Roh Ressegnon
Jun 27, 2013
6,752
16,378
This is very good and fair, but one's expectations of players and their playing merits to a team largely dictate their financial values. Whilst he is here now and therefore deserves support, it is not unreasonable to justify my slight disappointment with Paulinho with the fact that he cost 18 million. Not in the slightest. My chief reservations would be the same had he cost 2 million pounds, i.e. that he is not technically good enough to be an automatic starter in his preferred position, but the fee of course does play a role in how comfortable I am with this. If it didn't then overpaying for players would be no issue, so long as they contributed to the squad in some way. If we need a backup right back, why not pay 25 million for him? It's flawed logic.

I think probably the difference between you and I is I am more analytical financially in my judgements of our players, though this is of course informed principally by what I perceive to be their ability on the pitch.
Yeah, that's true, but after giving a player enough time to properly adjust (ie. more than one season) no one gives a damn about the fee anymore, unless it was some bonkers low fee or the player is a total bust.
 

Mediocrates

Well-Known Member
Mar 2, 2013
292
1,010
Yeah, that's true, but after giving a player enough time to properly adjust (ie. more than one season) no one gives a damn about the fee anymore, unless it was some bonkers low fee or the player is a total bust.

This is quite true. I should also probably stop pretending I am Spurs' accountant. Levy enjoys that role enough for all of us:whistle:
 

y1dk1d

Well-Known Member
Jun 9, 2012
2,052
4,911
Please don't be fooled! I was at the game today and he was not good. He was ok against a poor side. Thing is, he still scored and assisted. I don't think Paulinho is very good and would be a CM I'd be willing to sell because when he's not scoring he's unnoticeable
 

Snarfalicious

Well-Known Member
Jul 15, 2012
15,709
71,935
Please don't be fooled! I was at the game today and he was not good. He was ok against a poor side. Thing is, he still scored and assisted. I don't think Paulinho is very good and would be a CM I'd be willing to sell because when he's not scoring he's unnoticeable

I love this notion that people at the match can tell if a player is good or not more so than a person watching on the television.
 

kanoute16

Well-Known Member
Aug 7, 2011
295
552
Please don't be fooled! I was at the game today and he was not good. He was ok against a poor side. Thing is, he still scored and assisted. I don't think Paulinho is very good and would be a CM I'd be willing to sell because when he's not scoring he's unnoticeable
Well done for being at the game today, the one game you get to go to I suspect seeing as you have said it twice in this thread! How exciting for you?!

Anyway if he was that unnoticeable how can you so confidently say he was "not good"???
 

y1dk1d

Well-Known Member
Jun 9, 2012
2,052
4,911
I love this notion that people at the match can tell if a player is good or not more so than a person watching on the television.
I never said that. I like the fact that you take more from that then anything else in my post. Other than the odd goal what does Paulinho bring to the team as far as you're concerned?
 

y1dk1d

Well-Known Member
Jun 9, 2012
2,052
4,911
Well done for being at the game today, the one game you get to go to I suspect seeing as you have said it twice in this thread! How exciting for you?!

Anyway if he was that unnoticeable how can you so confidently say he was "not good"???
Wow. No need to be a prick mate. Didn't know I brought it up twice but I'm so sorry if I have. And someone is obviously not playing well if they're unnoticeable. He just doesn't have an impact on the game and loses the ball to easily. It's hard to get this point across when he got a goal and an assist on the night but he doesn't offer anything other than the odd goal! His touch is poor, doesn't fit the system and isn't committed. If we got offered the £17m we paid for him from a non EPL team would you take it? I know I would
 

Snarfalicious

Well-Known Member
Jul 15, 2012
15,709
71,935
I never said that. I like the fact that you take more from that then anything else in my post. Other than the odd goal what does Paulinho bring to the team as far as you're concerned?

In the role he played tonight (which should be his role moving forward)? Well, he pressed well up the pitch and won the ball back in dangerous positions on numerous occasions. He held the ball up at times, brought others into play, played a nicely weighted ball to Kane for the assist (put the chance on a plate for Kane), scored a beautifully taken goal, played a couple of nice one-twos and came deep at times to offer more presence/outlets in midfield. Other than that, he did nothing.

Playing further up the pitch allows for him to do what he does best: get into attacking positions. It also takes the onus of breaking up play out of his set of responsibilities and instead allows a more free role for him to harass opponents and should the press not come off, it's not nearly as big of a deal had this occurred in a deeper midfield position.
 

Sweech

Ruh Roh Ressegnon
Jun 27, 2013
6,752
16,378
Please don't be fooled! I was at the game today and he was not good. He was ok against a poor side. Thing is, he still scored and assisted. I don't think Paulinho is very good and would be a CM I'd be willing to sell because when he's not scoring he's unnoticeable
Thank god you were at the game and was able to update me. My eyes must be completely awful then, never need to watch a game again with you around.

Now I bet you'll also say, "I was at the game and Townsend was in fact amazing and never wasted possession!"
 

y1dk1d

Well-Known Member
Jun 9, 2012
2,052
4,911
In the role he played tonight (which should be his role moving forward)? Well, he pressed well up the pitch and won the ball back in dangerous positions on numerous occasions. He held the ball up at times, brought others into play, played a nicely weighted ball to Kane for the assist (put the chance on a plate for Kane), scored a beautifully taken goal, played a couple of nice one-twos and came deep at times to offer more presence/outlets in midfield. Other than that, he did nothing.

Playing further up the pitch allows for him to do what he does best: get into attacking positions. It also takes the onus of breaking up play out of his set of responsibilities and instead allows a more free role for him to harass opponents and should the press not come off, it's not nearly as big of a deal had this occurred in a deeper midfield position.
Some fair points in there. He did win the ball but also lost it quite a lot too. Also I liked his goal but I wouldn't give him too much praise for the assist. Obviously it's not a bad thing or anything but it wasn't a tough pass to make. I just generally feel underwhelmed by his play and he would be the first CM I'd sell to accommodate MS
 

Sweech

Ruh Roh Ressegnon
Jun 27, 2013
6,752
16,378
Some fair points in there. He did win the ball but also lost it quite a lot too. Also I liked his goal but I wouldn't give him too much praise for the assist. Obviously it's not a bad thing or anything but it wasn't a tough pass to make. I just generally feel underwhelmed by his play and he would be the first CM I'd sell to accommodate MS
Wasn't a tough pass to make because he did a great job of intercepting the ball where he did...
 

St José Dominguez

Well-Known Member
Jul 15, 2014
3,592
11,648
Love that the "what does he do" thing that is thrown at a lot of our players even gets thrown when a player scores a goal, assists a goal, pressed (even watching him help organise the pressing), barely waste possession, drop deep to help keep ball moving, track back to help defend. If he started 40 games he'd probably score 15 odd goals, assist a lot too and yet there'd still be "what does he do" thrown at him cos he doesn't spray the ball like Modric or run around at pace like a headless chicken like others do.
 
Top