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Plastic Pitches

nailsy

SC Supporter
Jul 24, 2005
30,536
46,628
This is an interesting article about Sutton possibly getting relegated if they get promoted...

https://amp.theguardian.com/footbal...-league-two-promotion-hits-plastic-pitch-snag

Say the words “plastic pitch” to supporters of a certain vintage and images of wildly bouncing balls and goalkeepers wearing tracksuit bottoms to avoid carpet burns naturally come flooding back. But while the first- generation artificial surfaces used by Luton, QPR, Preston and Oldham in the 1980s have long since been consigned to history the continuing debate over the suitability of modern 3G pitches will come to the fore on Sunday.

Sutton United’s National League play-off semi-final against Boreham Wood at Gander Green Lane sees the part-timers from south London attempt to round off a remarkable season by securing promotion to the Football League for the first time in their history. The only snag is that, under EFL regulations that ban artificial pitches, Sutton would not be allowed to begin next season in League Two and would instead face demotion to National League South if they did not replace their surface.

“It’s not what we would like but that is what we will have to do. It’s as simple as that,” admits the Sutton chairman, Bruce Elliot, who estimates that a new hybrid grass pitch will cost around £300,000. “We’ve been through the wringer this season but we’ve failed dismally to convince the EFL that the question of artificial pitches should even be on their agenda.”

Clubs in the EFL were invited to submit their view on the potential use of synthetic pitches at the start of the season, with the debate set to be continued at June’s AGM. Yet calls for another ballot have so far been resisted despite a tied vote on the issue in November 2014, while the Professional Footballers’ Association is among the staunch opponents having cited concerns about costs, increased likelihood of injuries and the “more direct” style of football artificial surfaces have been accused of promoting.

“If you talk to chairmen in the EFL, then they don’t seem very keen,” says Elliot. “But when you actually ask them about why they object to it, they say: ‘Well of course we do train on it.’ So if it’s good enough for training, so much for injuries to the players. That argument goes soaring out of the window. There’s definitely people who still remember the old bouncy pitches. But people aren’t using the same computers they were using 30 years ago, so why would you think that what happened at Luton and QPR is anything like what is happening now? Technology has moved on hugely and it’s difficult to put your finger on exactly why there is so much opposition.”



Sutton paid £500,000 to lay their pitch in 2015 and have enjoyed a meteoric rise since. Promoted from National League South in the first season, they secured a mid-table finish in the National League as well as making it to the fifth round of the FA Cup last season. Sutton’s players remain part-time, with much of the club’s income generated by renting out their facilities to the public during the week.
“It still looks as good as the day it was laid,” says Elliot, who estimates that the pitch could last for another eight years. “I’ve not heard the one about high costs before. But if that is one of the objections, then it makes the whole process even more ludicrous. Nobody is forcing anyone to have a 3G pitch. All we’re asking for is that clubs in League One and League Two have the opportunity to put one down. There is an investment and we had to borrow money to do it but the financial model that’s around it is unbelievable. It’s used seven days a week, all day every day.”
 

'O Zio

Well-Known Member
Dec 27, 2014
7,405
13,785
They knew the rules when they decided to lay it so no sympathy whatsoever to be honest. It's not like they put it in and then a year later the rules got changed on them.
 

Marty

Audere est farce
Mar 10, 2005
39,885
62,562
Artificial pitches are used all over the Nordic countries and Russia, and are allowed in European football too. They really are great for the community surrounding smaller clubs and the ability to use it for events every day is a great little earner. And the increased risks of injuries threat has been disproven with the most recent surfaces.

Time for the EFL and FA to stop being obstinate about this.
 

nailsy

SC Supporter
Jul 24, 2005
30,536
46,628
They knew the rules when they decided to lay it so no sympathy whatsoever to be honest. It's not like they put it in and then a year later the rules got changed on them.

It seems a bit hypercritical now if the FA are apparently considering using some of the Wembley money to pay for plastic pitches at grassroots level.

Its also interesting how much their economic model relies on use of the pitch throughout the year. Presumably they'll lose a lot of that income if they have to go back to normal grass pitches.
 

'O Zio

Well-Known Member
Dec 27, 2014
7,405
13,785
Artificial pitches are used all over the Nordic countries and Russia, and are allowed in European football too. They really are great for the community surrounding smaller clubs and the ability to use it for events every day is a great little earner. And the increased risks of injuries threat has been disproven with the most recent surfaces.

Time for the EFL and FA to stop being obstinate about this.

Completely different kettle of fish in Russia and Nordic countries because there are places where it's almost impossible for a groundsman to maintain a playable surface so they've got no choice. There's absolutely no reason why you can't have a normal pitch in Sutton.

Whether or not the artificial pitches are more likely to cause injury I don't know definitively, but either way they're not allowed by the EFL and they weren't allowed when Sutton decided to turn their pitch into one so they've only got themselves to blame really. They always knew it was a risk when they were installing it.
 

'O Zio

Well-Known Member
Dec 27, 2014
7,405
13,785
It seems a bit hypercritical now if the FA are apparently considering using some of the Wembley money to pay for plastic pitches at grassroots level.

Its also interesting how much their economic model relies on use of the pitch throughout the year. Presumably they'll lose a lot of that income if they have to go back to normal grass pitches.

But surely the plastic pitches at grassroots level are ones they're building in urban areas i.e. where there is no grass etc.? I don't think they're planning on turning playing fields into plastic are they? Also there's a huge difference between what is acceptable for kids to have training sessions on after school and what is acceptable for high-level professional teams. I don't think it's fair that one team can have an artificial pitch, which if you've ever played on one you'll know behaves very differently to a normal pitch, as it gives them a massive advantage vs teams who aren't used to playing on it.

Regarding their economic model, again, I don't really have much sympathy because why would you build your whole economic model around something that you know full well won't be viable if you get promoted? First and foremost they're a football club so they should be trying to win games and win promotion. If their entire economic model is based on them not getting promoted then that's at best just stupid and at worst a massive glaring conflict of interest that is open to all sorts of abuse.
 

nailsy

SC Supporter
Jul 24, 2005
30,536
46,628
But surely the plastic pitches at grassroots level are ones they're building in urban areas i.e. where there is no grass etc.? I don't think they're planning on turning playing fields into plastic are they? Also there's a huge difference between what is acceptable for kids to have training sessions on after school and what is acceptable for high-level professional teams. I don't think it's fair that one team can have an artificial pitch, which if you've ever played on one you'll know behaves very differently to a normal pitch, as it gives them a massive advantage vs teams who aren't used to playing on it.

Regarding their economic model, again, I don't really have much sympathy because why would you build your whole economic model around something that you know full well won't be viable if you get promoted? First and foremost they're a football club so they should be trying to win games and win promotion. If their entire economic model is based on them not getting promoted then that's at best just stupid and at worst a massive glaring conflict of interest that is open to all sorts of abuse.

From what I've read they plan to change some grass pitches into artificial ones...

"It is a chance for the FA to revolutionise the game at grass roots level, allow the construction of 3G and 4G pitches, improve changing rooms and raise coaching standards.

Currently, local parks and the like see one in seven games postponed because of unfit pitches, while changing facilities are often either non-existent or unfit for purpose."

As for Sutton they've kind of been a victim of their own success. The FA changed the rules in the 2014/2015 season to allow plastic Pitches to be used at that level. They say this about them on their website,

"The FA adheres to the latest independent evidence that indicates that 3G pitches in the UK, which are built to industry-standard specifications, are safe.

From time-to-time, concerns are raised in the media as to the safety or environmental risks associated with these pitches and their constituent parts, commonly crumb rubber.

The numerous scientific studies conducted by government agencies around the world - and undertaken by independent experts - have all validated the human health and environmental safety of 3G pitches and crumb rubber.

Third generation artificial turf is recognised as a durable, safe, year-round playing surface, able to withstand regular use and all kinds of weather.

It enables significant increases in sports participation, ensuring far more individuals and communities benefit from all of the associated social and health benefits of physical activity."

http://www.thefa.com/get-involved/player/facilities/funding

It seems strange that they say that they're fine at certain levels, and for youth and women's football, but not league football.
 

Fowl!

Active Member
Oct 17, 2017
224
255
It would be a massive risk replacing their pitch for what could be a single season in the higher level.

And furthermore I can’t have Sutton in the league as they are my local non-league team.
 

Dundalk_Spur

The only Spur in the village
Jul 17, 2008
4,956
7,688
Dundalk have an artificial pitch and compared to the cow patches most of the other teams play on its a dream.

It is no coincidence that they are also the team in the league that actually plays football and not hoofball like the majority.

The FA need a dose of common sense, how many times have we heard that??
 

cwy21

Well-Known Member
May 11, 2009
9,448
7,930
It's the EFL that bans the pitches. I'm all for blaming the FA when possible, but this is a league regulation not an FA one.
 
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