Player Watch Player Watch: Cameron Carter-Vickers

CowInAComa

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#61
I think USA will win the world cup before we do. More of their athletic kids are turning to 'soccer', big Mexican influx in the country and great coaching structure from an early age.
I remember a documentary I watched which must have been filmed in 1985 featuring Bobby Robson and Terry venables where they said pretty much the same thing was on the verge of happening. Didn't occur.

Football is a strange sport and brilliance rarely corresponds wirh size or resources of a country.

It ain't gonna happen.
 

dudu

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#63
I remember a documentary I watched which must have been filmed in 1985 featuring Bobby Robson and Terry venables where they said pretty much the same thing was on the verge of happening. Didn't occur.

Football is a strange sport and brilliance rarely corresponds wirh size or resources of a country.

It ain't gonna happen.
But it might though - they got closer than we did last time out -

I dont think either of us are going to win it any time soon but i wouldn't scoff at their ability to do so vs ours.
 

CowInAComa

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#64
But it might though - they got closer than we did last time out -

I dont think either of us are going to win it any time soon but i wouldn't scoff at their ability to do so vs ours.
I don't think we have a chance. We aren't a yardstick of any worth. An embarrassment to the sport.

By we I'm assuming you are talking about me and you.
 

Sweech

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#66
How is it laughable?

Was it laughable when Bentaleb did exactly what I am suggesting?

18 months later he is our best central midfielder.

I think the same could/could have happened with Cameron.

But instead, we have blocked his path to the first team for a player with very little experience and nowhere near as much talent as him. I don't find that laughable in the slightest if I am honest.
Bentaleb had just as many if not more players blocking him from playing midfield than CCV has at CB and yet Bentaleb earned it on merit. I'm not buying this whole bloked path business when you're using an example like Bentaleb who outplayed his competition and earned his spot in Pochettino's team. If CCV is as good he'll do the same.
 

IGSpur

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#67
Bentaleb had just as many if not more players blocking him from playing midfield than CCV has at CB and yet Bentaleb earned it on merit. I'm not buying this whole bloked path business when you're using an example like Bentaleb who outplayed his competition and earned his spot in Pochettino's team. If CCV is as good he'll do the same.
Yes but Bentaleb was brought in over expensive signigns I believe by Sherwood as he trusted him having coached him for 2 years and also to make a point. He then played well enough to deserve his spot. There is no reason for Pochettino to just play CCV over the other 4 CBs unless they become injured. He has no vested interest to play CCV over anyone else. Bentaleb's case was almost unique in that instance. What it did show is that maybe if we put more trust in them they won't let us down as much as people probably expect.

The players ahead of CCV aren't shocking or putting in laboured performances and so the need for CCV isn't as high. Therefore he may not get an opportunity despite the fact that if he did, he may actually play better than them. We won't know unless eh gets a chance and so long as the players ahead of him are playing just well enough, not even outstanding, he won't get a chance, unless Poch just throws him in.
 
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yankspurs

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#68
I think USA will win the world cup before we do. More of their athletic kids are turning to 'soccer', big Mexican influx in the country and great coaching structure from an early age.
Our grassroots is nowhere near as good as they are in Europe. That's one of te main reasons Klinsmann was given the role as technical director of US Soccer in his new contract on top of being manager of the senior team. He's been tasked with overhauling the grassroots system here and coaching, which will in turn produce better players. The USSF has really been pushing for better coaching in the youth system and also better development and quality of play in the leagues.
There is a reason why the US's most promising youth right now mostly consist of players in European academies, and why Klinsmann has been pushing to get dual nationals. The fact is, without the German-Americans Jurgen got to play for us, we'd be hurting. Also most of our promising players, and better senior players, are abroad. Guys like Hyndman, CCV, Yedlin, Green, Zelalem, Rubin, Johnson, Bedoya, Chandler, Brooks, Johannson, Guzan, etc....Erik Palmer Brown is probably going to be on the move to Juventus soon from Sporting KC.

Fabian Johnson is probably the US's best player atm(outside of Dempsey). He's an LB/RB/LM/RM who plays LM at Gladbach. Our best player used to be Michael Bradley, but he's been shit for the last year and a half(uncoincidentally, that timeline corresponds with when he went from Roma back to MLS).

US U20s vs Ukraine tomorrow(today). 3AM eastern. 8AM UK time. CCV likely will get start again, as per usual with the u20s.

Wouldnt be surprised if CCV is in the u23's later this summer for friendlys then the u23's in October for Olympic qualifying tourny, btw. I'd say it's an outside shot at gold cup or other senior caps until after olympic qualifying.
 

Sweech

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#69
Yes but Bentaleb was brought in over expensive signigns I believe by Sherwood as he trusted him having coached him for 2 years and also to make a point. He then played well enough to deserve his spot. There is no reason for Pochettino to just play CCV over the other 4 CBs unless they become injured. He has no vested interest to play CCV over anyone else. Bentaleb's case was almost unique in that instance. What it did show is that maybe if we put more trust in them they won't let us down as much as people probably expect.

The players ahead of CCV aren't shocking or putting in laboured performances and so the need for CCV isn't as high. Therefore he may not get an opportunity despite the fact that if he did, he may actually play better than them. We won't know unless eh gets a chance and so long as the players ahead of him are playing just well enough, not even outstanding, he won't get a chance, unless Poch just throws him in.
Pochettino had no problem sitting players Sherwood played, he also had no problem with sitting a CM that was just bought in favour of Bentaleb. I really don't think it's as cut and dry as that.

When was the last time we let a youth product go and never gave them game time and they ended up knocking it out of the park somewhere else?
 

DaiT

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#70
I am looking forward to see him playing tonight. It will be a tougher game than the previous 2 games.
 

Main Man

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#71
Bentaleb had just as many if not more players blocking him from playing midfield than CCV has at CB and yet Bentaleb earned it on merit. I'm not buying this whole bloked path business when you're using an example like Bentaleb who outplayed his competition and earned his spot in Pochettino's team. If CCV is as good he'll do the same.
What on earth are you talking about?

Bentaleb was picked from utter obscurity and placed straight in to our starting eleven by Tim Sherwood. It had nothing to do with him outplaying his competition because he hadn't had an opportunity to do that. Sherwood simply thought he was a better player than his other options - and he was right.

I am suggesting, rightly or wrongly, that I think Cameron was worth throwing in on the opening day against West Ham ahead of Dier because he is better than him.

If you really think it's a case of 'all young players will eventually progress if they are good enough' then you are deluded.
 

Sweech

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#72
What on earth are you talking about?

Bentaleb was picked from utter obscurity and placed straight in to our starting eleven by Tim Sherwood. It had nothing to do with him outplaying his competition because he hadn't had an opportunity to do that. Sherwood simply thought he was a better player than his other options - and he was right.

I am suggesting, rightly or wrongly, that I think Cameron was worth throwing in on the opening day against West Ham ahead of Dier because he is better than him.

If you really think it's a case of 'all young players will eventually progress if they are good enough' then you are deluded.
Like I said before Sherwood playing him means nothing to Pochettino playing him. Poch sat players Sherweod liked and Bentaleb had to beat out the others in training and in games for his spot. He wasn't just magically given that spot because Tim Sherwood said so, believing that would be...deluded.

Same with Ryan Mason, who many, including myself had written off. Where was his game time with Sherwood? How on earth could Pochettino make a judgment to play him over the other options without it? Probably from the training and pre-season Poch had with the players eh? Basically the same opportunity CCV can have.

Oh but we signed Kevin Wimmer who will obviously be favourited and in his path right? Would you kindly ask Benjamin Stambouli how that's going for him?

There's delusion and then there's willfully looking the other way from piles of evidence.
 
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thekneaf

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#73
What on earth are you talking about?

Bentaleb was picked from utter obscurity and placed straight in to our starting eleven by Tim Sherwood. It had nothing to do with him outplaying his competition because he hadn't had an opportunity to do that. Sherwood simply thought he was a better player than his other options - and he was right.

I am suggesting, rightly or wrongly, that I think Cameron was worth throwing in on the opening day against West Ham ahead of Dier because he is better than him.

If you really think it's a case of 'all young players will eventually progress if they are good enough' then you are deluded.
He would have been 16 then. Is there any precedent for a team playing a 16 year old CB? Dier had been playing football against men for at least a year, he was the clear nod.

Wimmer has come in now so the balance this season will be important. Maybe a loan for CCV this season would be ideal.
 

Main Man

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#76
Like I said before Sherwood playing him means nothing to Pochettino playing him. Poch sat players Sherweod liked and Bentaleb had to beat out the others in training and in games for his spot. He wasn't just magically given that spot because Tim Sherwood said so, believing that would be...deluded.

Same with Ryan Mason, who many, including myself had written off. Where was his game time with Sherwood? How on earth could Pochettino make a judgment to play him over the other options without it? Probably from the training and pre-season Poch had with the players eh? Basically the same opportunity CCV can have.

Oh but we signed Kevin Wimmer who will obviously be favourited and in his path right? Would you kindly ask Benjamin Stambouli how that's going for him?

There's delusion and then there's willfully looking the other way from piles of evidence.
I am not sure what point you are making, I am not comparing Poch or Sherwood etc and I don't know what Wimmer has to do with this either.

I've made my point very clear above but I will say it again. I would have liked to see Cameron involved in pre-season and then considered ahead of Dier, as I think he is a better player.

He would have been 16 then. Is there any precedent for a team playing a 16 year old CB? Dier had been playing football against men for at least a year, he was the clear nod.

Wimmer has come in now so the balance this season will be important. Maybe a loan for CCV this season would be ideal.
He was 16 years, but he is seemingly as physically developed as Eric Dier for example. People point to Dier's perceived greater experience, and although of course invaluable, he had played less than thirty times for Sporting.

A loan is definitely needed for Cameron this summer imo if we aren't going to be using him in the first team, and the route Caulker took would be ideal for him.
 

thekneaf

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#77
I am not sure what point you are making, I am not comparing Poch or Sherwood etc and I don't know what Wimmer has to do with this either.

I've made my point very clear above but I will say it again. I would have liked to see Cameron involved in pre-season and then considered ahead of Dier, as I think he is a better player.



He was 16 years, but he is seemingly as physically developed as Eric Dier for example. People point to Dier's perceived greater experience, and although of course invaluable, he had played less than thirty times for Sporting.

A loan is definitely needed for Cameron this summer imo if we aren't going to be using him in the first team, and the route Caulker took would be ideal for him.
I hadn't seen or heard anything about CCV this time last year, mainly because I wasn't following this thread. But not even Terry, or Rio or...well any players get game time at CB at 16. I want to blood our youth but if he makes it in for 2016/17 then it will still be precociously early to start in the EPL.
 

DaSpurs

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11,722
#79
I remember a documentary I watched which must have been filmed in 1985 featuring Bobby Robson and Terry venables where they said pretty much the same thing was on the verge of happening. Didn't occur.

Football is a strange sport and brilliance rarely corresponds wirh size or resources of a country.

It ain't gonna happen.
Not necessarily arguing with you, because in truth you're very likely right, as I don't think it'll ever happen at least in the lifetimes of any member currently on this site.

However, since 1985, some massive changes have taken place in football in the US. In truth, most of those changes have only really happened in the last decade. They are:

1 - Rise in sheer numbers
- "Soccer" is now the 2nd most played sport among teenagers, behind only basketball. In 1985, about as many teenagers in the US played it as ones that bowled or swam.

2 - Rise in popularity
- Young Americans aren't just playing it, they're watching it. The lowly MLS attendance scores have already matched the NBA and NHL, but as of 2013, among young adults (aged 18-29), soccer is surpassed only by football as the most popular sport.

3 - Establishment of youth academy systems/network
- Even a decade ago, most Americans came up through a "club" system, and the "Olympic Development Program" if they excelled at club level, and even that was only in the summers when school was out.
- Within the last decade, many MLS clubs have built their own academies and are pumping out homegrown professionals. Those products are only just now breaching through into senior ranks, one of those earliest originals is now a right back at Tottenham Hotspur FC.

4 - Most importantly, the game has filtered out from being played at competitive levels at the ages of 14-18 primarily (almost entirely) by children of the upper middle class
- The aforementioned "club" system was/is an extremely expensive pursuit for recreational sport. Annual fees range(d) from 3,000-10,000 US dollars a year, and this is for practicing three times a week for only two hours. This also doesn't include travel, hotel, food, and leisure expenditures of playing the competitions on frequent weekends. Obviously, only the affluent were/are able to afford this.
- The problem with this aside from being incredibly exclusive to the majority of a nation's popoulation, is that the evaluation system for the nation's top players came from the ODP system. Top players were culled from the clubs into ODP, top players from ODP were culled into the US' youth programs for national selection. As you can see, when you're only selecting from such a small demographic and from kids were practicing three days a week until they're 18, your chances of improvement are hopeful at best.

So yes, I will probably never see the US hoist that trophy, but there have been monumental changes in football (proper football) in the US since 1985. In fact, that was even the year the old professional league, the NASL (which George Best and Pele played in), shut down. What was then a youth recreational pastime at best is now one of the most popular sports in a nation of 320 million people. Who knows what could happen in the next three decades given that much change.
 

yankspurs

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Joined
Aug 22, 2013
Messages
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#80
Not necessarily arguing with you, because in truth you're very likely right, as I don't think it'll ever happen at least in the lifetimes of any member currently on this site.

However, since 1985, some massive changes have taken place in football in the US. In truth, most of those changes have only really happened in the last decade. They are:

1 - Rise in sheer numbers
- "Soccer" is now the 2nd most played sport among teenagers, behind only basketball. In 1985, about as many teenagers in the US played it as ones that bowled or swam.

2 - Rise in popularity
- Young Americans aren't just playing it, they're watching it. The lowly MLS attendance scores have already matched the NBA and NHL, but as of 2013, among young adults (aged 18-29), soccer is surpassed only by football as the most popular sport.

3 - Establishment of youth academy systems/network
- Even a decade ago, most Americans came up through a "club" system, and the "Olympic Development Program" if they excelled at club level, and even that was only in the summers when school was out.
- Within the last decade, many MLS clubs have built their own academies and are pumping out homegrown professionals. Those products are only just now breaching through into senior ranks, one of those earliest originals is now a right back at Tottenham Hotspur FC.

4 - Most importantly, the game has filtered out from being played at competitive levels at the ages of 14-18 primarily (almost entirely) by children of the upper middle class
- The aforementioned "club" system was/is an extremely expensive pursuit for recreational sport. Annual fees range(d) from 3,000-10,000 US dollars a year, and this is for practicing three times a week for only two hours. This also doesn't include travel, hotel, food, and leisure expenditures of playing the competitions on frequent weekends. Obviously, only the affluent were/are able to afford this.
- The problem with this aside from being incredibly exclusive to the majority of a nation's popoulation, is that the evaluation system for the nation's top players came from the ODP system. Top players were culled from the clubs into ODP, top players from ODP were culled into the US' youth programs for national selection. As you can see, when you're only selecting from such a small demographic and from kids were practicing three days a week until they're 18, your chances of improvement are hopeful at best.

So yes, I will probably never see the US hoist that trophy, but there have been monumental changes in football (proper football) in the US since 1985. In fact, that was even the year the old professional league, the NASL (which George Best and Pele played in), shut down. What was then a youth recreational pastime at best is now one of the most popular sports in a nation of 320 million people. Who knows what could happen in the next three decades given that much change.
We will win the 2022 World Cup, which will take place here in the United States. Book it.
 
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