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Eric Dier

glospur

Well-Known Member
May 19, 2015
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I don’t understand why it’s so important to have absolute belief in every facet of a manager or player. The people criticising them, do so because they support the club and don’t want players they consider to be very poor, having a negative effect on it. People react to reasonable and specific criticism like you’ve just gargled the blood of their firstborn. I‘ve never been anything but supportive of our players when I;ve been at games, but outside of that, supporting a player you think has been woeful/does not put in any effort, is surely the opposite of supporting the club. It just comes down to whether you rate Dier or not.
Sorry, I meant to multiquote but actually pressed 'post.' (See: I want maximum positive ratings).

I'm not saying you have to. By all means, post what you would like to see and why you'd like to see it. This is a discussion forum after all.

No, the problem I have is when people criticise a player for doing exactly what he's asked to do, and doing it well, because the player is not doing what the poster would like to see instead. It's a bizarre criteria to judge a player on because that's just not what they're being asked to do.

And not put in any effort? You can't actually be serious, right? I'll counter that by pointing you in the direction of pretty much every game he's ever played for Tottenham as proof that you're wrong. It also indicates that your opinion is largely formed by a bias, which is also suggested in the foul claim you made earlier which was quickly proved incorrect by facts.

And yeah, while I agree that you dont have to have absolute belief in a player, or manager, I'm interested to know why you think Pochettino himself continues to play Dier (i think he's played more football than everyone bar Hugo and Eriksen over the last 2 or 3 seasons, but that could be wrong) despite him being, in your words, woeful? Do you yourself ever consider another perspective other than your own? it couldn't be because he's good at doing exactly what he's being asked to do, could it?

Tyson is a physicist/presenter. His expertise in his field is hardly comparable to the personal opinions of a football manager. Ernest Hemingway at least worked in a qualitative field, and as such, is frequently the subject of dogged criticism over his style - he’s probably more popular outside of the English Lit world, than within it (not that english Lit students/professors have opinions particularly worth listening to, which is my point). Differing perspectives should be an opportunity for a bit of self-examination re your own. Outside of Liverpool anyway. Even if you ultimately reject them, at least you know there’s some validity to doing that.
As above, I thought that silly analogy was clearly tongue in cheek. Sorry for being too vague on that one.

As for that last sentence or three, that's some advice you could do with applying to yourself.

I think it’s telling when the defence of a player, is to try to devalue all the critical points raised against them, rather than addressing them.
Are you talking about BCs tendency to regularly use straw men, and other fallacies? If so, I agree.

Again, if this is directed at me, I posted a few pages back a lengthy list of things I believe Dier does well and why people who say he brings nothing to midfield are wrong imo.

Where is the line in terms of when humans are allowed to question one very small aspect of a manager’s judgemen? Is it just Poch and other top level managers? Does proficiency in a job, mean having no flaws in that job?
Was Capello a fantastic England manager? Mourinho made good choices in flogging Salah, De Bruyne and Lukaku?

What happens when Pochettino changes his mind, changes the formation, and his ideas about things? Was he right before or after? How about never loaning our best young players?

Should we be mocking anyone who disagrees with Mark Lawrenson.. after all he’s a hugely experienced and successful player and pundit, while we’re all just armchair managers whose opinions are accordingly inferior.
Again, it's a discussion forum, so go for your life, but some humility and not effectively calling our players awful, lazy thugs would be a good start. it's also worth considering that your perspective may not be correct either, a fact that many when they post seem to overlook, even me.
 
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glospur

Well-Known Member
May 19, 2015
2,608
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It isn't childish at all. I suspect people moaning about criticism of Dier is because of how great a person he seems to be and nobody has really questioned this in any way. I think on the whole it's been very objective criticism compared to how Sissoko is assessed on here.

With myself there's an element of frustration that he's being used as a midfielder. Whilst I acknowledge his leadership qualities, attitude and personality which are all exemplary, I think he's severely lacking in the necessary physical and technical qualities to play in this role. I've gone into detail on why I think that earlier in this thread, but I don't see that criticism as aimless slagging off in any way. If anything, i'm more critical of Pochettino for playing him there.

If we were not able to engage in any sort of criticism then there wouldn't be much point in this thread.
I'd actually say that many people who are 'moaning' about the criticism are in fact doing nothing of the sort. It's not moaning to say why you think the person doing the criticism is wrong.

if we were not able to engage in any sort of rebuttal of the criticism then there wouldn't be much point ... etc.

Also, this: "If anything, i'm more critical of Pochettino for playing him there." That's actually a reasonable discussion point. It's much better than criticising a player for playing in the way that he's asked to.

So, mate, put yourself in Poch's shoes. Why do you think he keeps playing him there, even when we have a healthy squad to pick from?
 
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Bus-Conductor

SC Supporter
Oct 19, 2004
39,837
50,713
Geez, that silly little analogy was clearly supposed to be a little tongue in cheek, while poking a cheeky jab at BC's verbose, elongated posts. Maybe I should have used an emoji or something to indicate that.


And that's exactly your problem. You're still stuck on judging everything he does on what you think a player in a CM2 should be doing based on your 50 years watching studying, thinking etc about football, not what he's actually being asked to do by his manager.

As you certainly know, not every CM2 combination is the same, not every combination is asked to do the same things etc. These things differ from manager, to system, to philosophy, and so on.

The thing you brought up earlier about always dropping when we're defending a lead is the perfect example. You're making that judgement on what you'd prefer to see him do in that situation, but that's inherently ridiculous. It's a criteria that doesn't even exist to him, so why should he be judged on it? All that matters is if he's doing what Pochettino asks of him well enough, which he obviously is because he keeps being picked in that position, even when the other option for that role is available. it doesn't make him a poor player to follow instructions.

Think of it as like football manager tactics relativism. Kind of like cultural relativism; you know, the idea that a culture can only be judged from within the tenents of that culture, not against the culture of another. Think of it like that, but football.
Sorry, I meant to multiquote but actually pressed 'post.' (See: I want maximum positive ratings).

I'm not saying you have to. By all means, post what you would like to see and why you'd like to see it. This is a discussion forum after all.

No, the problem I have is when people criticise a player for doing exactly what he's asked to do, and doing it well, because the player is not doing what the poster would like to see instead. It's a bizarre criteria to judge a player on because that's just not what they're being asked to do.

And not put in any effort? You can't actually be serious, right? I'll counter that by pointing you in the direction of pretty much every game he's ever played for Tottenham as proof that you're wrong. It also indicates that your opinion is largely formed by a bias, which is also suggested in the foul claim you made earlier which was quickly proved incorrect by facts.

And yeah, while I agree that you dont have to have absolute belief in a player, or manager, I'm interested to know why you think Pochettino himself continues to play Dier (i think he's played more football than everyone bar Hugo and Eriksen over the last 2 or 3 seasons, but that could be wrong) despite him being, in your words, woeful? Do you yourself ever consider another perspective other than your own? it couldn't be because he's good at doing exactly what he's being asked to do, could it?


As above, I thought that silly analogy was clearly tongue in cheek. Sorry for being too vague on that one.

As for that last sentence or three, that's some advice you could do with applying to yourself.


Are you talking about BCs tendency to regularly use straw men, and other fallacies? If so, I agree.

Again, if this is directed at me, I posted a few pages back a lengthy list of things I believe Dier does well and why people who say he brings nothing to midfield are wrong imo.


Again, it's a discussion forum, so go for your life, but some humility and not effectively calling our players awful, lazy thugs would be a good start. it's also worth considering that your perspective may not be correct either, a fact that many when they post seem to overlook, even me.


The fucking irony.
 

LexingtonSpurs

Well-Known Member
Aug 27, 2013
13,456
39,042
SMH

Dier is an alternative captain for England. He did not get the armband to make him feel good. He has earned that position. That is the type of player that winning teams want - the kind of player who has the drive to win, and to play hard.

You find spots for those players in your team, you don't whine about how they are not a perfect fit.

Dier will find a spot in Poch's squad - because that is what Dier does. And that is what Dier has done from his first summer here.
 

glospur

Well-Known Member
May 19, 2015
2,608
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There's actually evidence that Poch doesn't see Dier as a CB. He's said as much in his book.

I think the reason he's played there so much is a combination of injury/fitness issues to Wanyama, Dembele and Winks as well as Dier's preference to play there over CB. I think Poch is being perhaps too keen to appease him, but he really must have a word imo and tell him if he wants to make it to the top then the best way to do that is to play CB. It's a position that he has far less weaknesses in and I think a lot of what he's poor at as a midfielder is almost uncoachable. I think there's also a danger that should he continue to play in midfield and not CB then he might start to lose those natural positional instincts he developed at CB, making him worse there too. For his development he needs to lock down a position at CB now, and with Toby potentially leaving there's no better time than now to make him a mainstay there.

This is why i've been arguing against spending a huge sum on De Ligt. We've already got Dier, so why not take him off duties he's not good at and replace him with someone who can perform those midfield duties better? We will be a lot stronger for it.
But Dier has played there regularly when those players have been available, so that can’t be a major reason.


Also, do you really think that Pochettino, the notoriously strong willed Pochettino that we all love, would regularly play a player in a crucial position just to appease him? Really?

I mean for football reasons why do you think he plays him there? I don’t want to sound condescending, so sorry if i do, but if you establish the actual football reasons why you think he’s played there, you can actually make some genuine progress in an actual critique.
 

johnbowel

Active Member
Jan 21, 2015
123
250
Sorry, I meant to multiquote but actually pressed 'post.' (See: I want maximum positive ratings).

I'm not saying you have to. By all means, post what you would like to see and why you'd like to see it. This is a discussion forum after all.

No, the problem I have is when people criticise a player for doing exactly what he's asked to do, and doing it well, because the player is not doing what the poster would like to see instead. It's a bizarre criteria to judge a player on because that's just not what they're being asked to do.

And not put in any effort? You can't actually be serious, right? I'll counter that by pointing you in the direction of pretty much every game he's ever played for Tottenham as proof that you're wrong. It also indicates that your opinion is largely formed by a bias, which is also suggested in the foul claim you made earlier which was quickly proved incorrect by facts.

And yeah, while I agree that you dont have to have absolute belief in a player, or manager, I'm interested to know why you think Pochettino himself continues to play Dier (i think he's played more football than everyone bar Hugo and Eriksen over the last 2 or 3 seasons, but that could be wrong) despite him being, in your words, woeful? Do you yourself ever consider another perspective other than your own? it couldn't be because he's good at doing exactly what he's being asked to do, could it?


As above, I thought that silly analogy was clearly tongue in cheek. Sorry for being too vague on that one.

As for that last sentence or three, that's some advice you could do with applying to yourself.


Are you talking about BCs tendency to regularly use straw men, and other fallacies? If so, I agree.

Again, if this is directed at me, I posted a few pages back a lengthy list of things I believe Dier does well and why people who say he brings nothing to midfield are wrong imo.


Again, it's a discussion forum, so go for your life, but some humility and not effectively calling our players awful, lazy thugs would be a good start. it's also worth considering that your perspective may not be correct either, a fact that many when they post seem to overlook, even me.

Ok. Calling for humility is a little bit dramatic. Unlike you, I was perfectly moderate in my post addressing what you said. I constantly question my own views on things, and have done here, in fact. I could say the same to you, as I haven’;t see you for one moment considering your own assessments of Dier or acknowledge any point raised against them. I actually respect your right to an opinion, however wrong I think it is, and your right to think I’m wrong. I just don’t respect specious stuff being used to back that up, because everything takes it’s inevitable fall into self affirmation (which is why I only post infrequently and when the insanity of the transfer window has eroded my better judgement). I think you’ve taken being disagreed with as being dismissed in some personal way, or perhaps mixing the tone of other interactions on here. Either way, you should have a little look at your tone, compared to mine, and teh irony of your reaction.

Why shouldn’t I or anyone describe a player I perceive as being lazy (not effectively, but actually), as exactly that? These people aren’t delicate princesses who desperately need protection - as long as noone’s being continually abusive etc, a player with poor workrate should be accountable for it. And Dier barely breaks into a jog. He makes very few tackles and very few interceptions. People criticised anyone judging him on his performance for England the other day: that’s how he’s played for us for two years.

I have watched pretty much every spurs game for the last five-ten years or so, so I’m alright when it comes to having seen Dier;s performances,; in fact, it’s what I base my opinions on rather than an imaginary set of parameters set out by a manager who for some unknown reason, actively wants his players to put in minimal effort, and have no sharpness in games. For someone who values humility so highly you’d be well served being a little less patronising.

I think the conclusion you’re coming to that Dier is ‘doing what Poch asks of him’ based on his continual selection is assuming that Poch’s assessment of this is accurate, well-observed, based on all it should be and immune to any factors that might skew perspective. We’d have also to believe that Sissoko is doing what Poch asks of him, on this basis. I’m not sure what’s more worrying: Sissoko’s performances being what Poch is looking for, or Poch being unable to see that they’re not.

Of course he could be right and I could be wrong, and of course I don’t believe that’s the case because I am me rather than him- just like how you think you’re right but for some reason this justifies being accused of gross arrogance when it’s me. I cannot understand how anyone can think Dier has a good workrate, if they’ve actually seen him play over the last couple of years.

I just think this is too rigid a way to judge things. If you watch Dier and think his performances are good, then we disagree, as do many people on here with each other, but having to create justifications and reasoning outside of this is just end-based. The more tortured the reasoning, the less compelling, for me.

The other thing is, Dier didn’t play like this when we first put him in central midfield. He ran much much harder, while still holding position in general, he harried and chased, and he made tackles. Or maybe I’m just thinking of that Everton game.

In fairness, my own gripe isn’t just with him, it’s with how poor our collective pressing has become compared to when the team were first introduced to Poch’s methods. I was genuinely extremely excited then. It Changed how I valued things. I stopped caring about signings etc, the team ethic and attitude made that seem relatively insignificant. I felt similarly watching Uruguay the other day, despite their defensiveness. They were incredibly exciting.

Anyway, I dont think there’s much point continuing this, as you just got emotional and condescending when I was perfectly respectful in my comment on your post. If you read back, you’ll see that.

Cultural relativism, like most ideas seized on by modern pop sociology, willfully fails to acknowledge that culture is formed from nature, before it gets to exert any influence on that nature, in order to excuse certain favoured groups any accountability, rather than giving the accountability a degree of qualification. Most of academia, like any collective entity, flinches at the things that threaten it. In this case: ideas.
 

glospur

Well-Known Member
May 19, 2015
2,608
9,806
Ok. Calling for humility is a little bit dramatic. Unlike you, I was perfectly moderate in my post addressing what you said. I constantly question my own views on things, and have done here, in fact. I could say the same to you, as I haven’;t see you for one moment considering your own assessments of Dier or acknowledge any point raised against them. I actually respect your right to an opinion, however wrong I think it is, and your right to think I’m wrong. I just don’t respect specious stuff being used to back that up, because everything takes it’s inevitable fall into self affirmation (which is why I only post infrequently and when the insanity of the transfer window has eroded my better judgement). I think you’ve taken being disagreed with as being dismissed in some personal way, or perhaps mixing the tone of other interactions on here. Either way, you should have a little look at your tone, compared to mine, and teh irony of your reaction.

Why shouldn’t I or anyone describe a player I perceive as being lazy (not effectively, but actually), as exactly that? These people aren’t delicate princesses who desperately need protection - as long as noone’s being continually abusive etc, a player with poor workrate should be accountable for it. And Dier barely breaks into a jog. He makes very few tackles and very few interceptions. People criticised anyone judging him on his performance for England the other day: that’s how he’s played for us for two years.
Perfectly moderate by suggesting that people who dare to question the criticism of one of our players are acting as though ... What was it? Oh yes, they're acting as though "you've just gargled the blood of their first born." Yep, very moderate.

And no, I'm certainly not taking anything personally. I'm just calling out ridiculous biases and criticism founded on criteria that doesn't even exist where I see it.

Also, "specious," really? Coming from you? Oh, boy. Here's some cold hard facts that prove you categorically wrong, johnbowel.

You used "the last two years" as the time frame, and said that "he makes very few tackles and very few interceptions."

In the Premier League in 17/18 Eric Dier made the third most tackles per game of anyone in the squad. In 16/17, he dropped down to 10th, but was also playing a different role and position which mitigates that. By way of comparison, his defensive partners in Vertonghen and Alderweireld were 11th and 9th respectively.

In the Premier League in 17/18 Eric Dier made the third most interceptions per game of anyone in the squad. In 16/17 he was 5th, his defenive partners in Vertonghen and Alderweireld were 1st and 6th respectively.

Furthermore, Eric Dier made the 5th most clearances per game last season, and the 3rd most the season before that. He also made the 3rd most blocks per game last season, and the 3rd most the season before. I don't know about you, but that doesn't seem like a player who doesn't work hard. Now, these aren't a definitive metric on a player's workrate, but in the absence of running stats, it comes pretty close and is a fair indication of how hard a player works defensively.

You've already been called out on your demonstrably incorrect call about his fouling on the last page, before hastily spluttering and trying to backtrack by saying Dembele only fouled because he was surprised. Further to this, Dier was 13th on the list of fouls per game last season, and 12th the season before that.

source: WhoScored

So, jb, which of us is guilty of using specious reasoning again? Here I am acknowledging your points, and debunking every one of them with facts. You are categorically incorrect on pretty much all your claims about Eric Dier.

This leads me to believe that you're either completely blinded by bias towards him to the point that your perception of his influence over a game is rendered completely useless, or you have a poor understanding of his role and position. I'll leave that for you to decide which one applies to you, but I'm guessing the former.

I have watched pretty much every spurs game for the last five-ten years or so, so I’m alright when it comes to having seen Dier;s performances,; in fact, it’s what I base my opinions on rather than an imaginary set of parameters set out by a manager who for some unknown reason, actively wants his players to put in minimal effort, and have no sharpness in games. For someone who values humility so highly you’d be well served being a little less patronising.
I've seen a lot of movies too, and that doesn't make me a competent actor, director, or film critic. Experience and quantity of games =/= expertise or an infallible opinion.

There's also an irony in someone posting on a specific football team's dedicated forum accusing a footballer who runs 10+ kilometers ever few days of putting in minimal effort.

But seriously, ask yourself, do you really think that a manager as notoriously ruthless as Pochettino would suffer a player, let alone play him week after week after week after week after week etc if he was putting in minimal effort? That is a genuinely ludicrous suggestion. For someone who seems to pride themselves on logic and rational reasoning (but then does nothing of the sort) how could you come to such a patently illogical conclusion?

I think the conclusion you’re coming to that Dier is ‘doing what Poch asks of him’ based on his continual selection is assuming that Poch’s assessment of this is accurate, well-observed, based on all it should be and immune to any factors that might skew perspective. We’d have also to believe that Sissoko is doing what Poch asks of him, on this basis. I’m not sure what’s more worrying: Sissoko’s performances being what Poch is looking for, or Poch being unable to see that they’re not.

Of course he could be right and I could be wrong, and of course I don’t believe that’s the case because I am me rather than him- just like how you think you’re right but for some reason this justifies being accused of gross arrogance when it’s me. I cannot understand how anyone can think Dier has a good workrate, if they’ve actually seen him play over the last couple of years.
No, not at all. As I said to the very reasonable WiganSpur, I think an effective critique could be made by establishing the football reasons why Pochettino continually picks him, and then discuss whether this is the best thing for the team in the parameters of Pochettino's philosophy and setup. No one has done that so far however.

And yeah, I think that's exactly why Sissoko continues to be selected. In fact, Pochettino has said that himself in an interview a few months ago. He said that Sissoko's athleticism made him "an important player." He said that:
"You have to give the credit to him because he is the only player who gives or provides balance in those transitions - offensive to defensive, defensive to offensive - in the team. There is no other player in the team who can provide that. This is the best quality he provides to the team."

source: http://www.skysports.com/football/n...st-important-players-says-mauricio-pochettino

And the same goes the other way, I can't how anyone can think Dier has a poor workrate if they've seen him play over the last couple of years. Considering that I'v already proved that your perception of Dier is fundamentally flawed, forgive me if I don't side with you on this one.

I just think this is too rigid a way to judge things. If you watch Dier and think his performances are good, then we disagree, as do many people on here with each other, but having to create justifications and reasoning outside of this is just end-based. The more tortured the reasoning, the less compelling, for me.
It's really not. It's the critical, logical way to do it. Why would you judge a player against criteria that simply doesn't exist, instead of what he's actually being asked to do? You wouldn't. It's nonsensical. It's fanciful. Those parameters just don't even come into the players thinking because they simply don't know about it.

The only way to fairly and effectively judge a player is against what they're being asked to do. It's why Josh Onomah, for example, can look so poor in Steve Bruce's system despite having lots of talent. It's why Anthony Martial and Marcus Rashford can look completely devoid of attacking fluidity and talent when playing under Mourinho. The context of the manager's instructions and philosophy are the only way to judge player's performances, otherwise football would just exist in a vacuum and it's only the team who is most talented that would always win.

The other thing is, Dier didn’t play like this when we first put him in central midfield. He ran much much harder, while still holding position in general, he harried and chased, and he made tackles. Or maybe I’m just thinking of that Everton game.

In fairness, my own gripe isn’t just with him, it’s with how poor our collective pressing has become compared to when the team were first introduced to Poch’s methods. I was genuinely extremely excited then. It Changed how I valued things. I stopped caring about signings etc, the team ethic and attitude made that seem relatively insignificant. I felt similarly watching Uruguay the other day, despite their defensiveness. They were incredibly exciting.

Anyway, I dont think there’s much point continuing this, as you just got emotional and condescending when I was perfectly respectful in my comment on your post. If you read back, you’ll see that.
My take is that the drop in pressing is an intentional philosophical shift to be little more pragmatic and conserve energy. Pochettino has evolved during his tenure with us, and recognised that his previous methods took an exacting toll on the players that generally saw significant drop offs later in the season. There was also times when we would be too agressive and pulled out of positon, allowing good teams to cut through us too easily.

I don't think this is a lazy thing, or a drop off, it's smarter and more deliberate rather than the manic intensity than it was in his first two seasons. This was best demonstrated two seasons ago when we finished 2nd. It was the perfect balance. I suspect that the influence of Wembley and the larger pitch mitigated our pressing intensity last season.

And, honestly, you can't be serious? Your entire post is dripping in condescension and pretentiousness. I think you need a lesson in self-awareness.

Cultural relativism, like most ideas seized on by modern pop sociology, willfully fails to acknowledge that culture is formed from nature, before it gets to exert any influence on that nature, in order to excuse certain favoured groups any accountability, rather than giving the accountability a degree of qualification. Most of academia, like any collective entity, flinches at the things that threaten it. In this case: ideas.
This is off-topic, so there's no point discussing it, but LOL.
 
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longtimespur

Well-Known Member
Sep 10, 2014
5,830
9,949
Reminds me of the Archers theme tune...

Wum-de-wum-de-wum-de-wum
Wum-de-wum-de-wum-de
Wum-de-wum-de-wum-de-wum
Wum-de-didly-wum
 

Hengy1

Well-Known Member
Aug 7, 2014
2,744
7,424
It’s time for Dier to move back into CB position.

He’s regressed so much as a midfielder since the first season he moved forward into the position.
 
Jan 28, 2011
5,647
78,681
Huge kudos to Eric for the penalty to win the game.

I do, however, sometimes worry he's not quite on the same wavelength as the rest of this England team...



 

faze_coys

Well-Known Member
Dec 14, 2010
3,138
4,796
It’s time for Dier to move back into CB position.

He’s regressed so much as a midfielder since the first season he moved forward into the position.

It’s more he has no place playing midfield when there is 3 at the back. He’s just not cut out for that link role.
 

faze_coys

Well-Known Member
Dec 14, 2010
3,138
4,796
Yep. He really needs to nail down a position and I really think he’s the perfect CB.

Wouldn’t say he’s perfect but he’s definatley a CB who can also do a job in a double pivot when needed.

The problem is that’s he’s only our 4th best CB at this time... Juan could be barking at his neck next ?
 

mil1lion

This is the place to be
May 7, 2004
42,344
77,596
Great character from the spot. I think Poch played a part today because he has built such a strong backbone throughout our squad. All our lads are so mentally prepared now even for situations that are new to them. This was their first big penalty shootout and they all looked so composed. So happy for Dier to get what will be one of the most memorable moments in his career. I particualrly enjoy that they all celebrated and were happy together as a group though. Dier seemed just as happy for Pickford as he was himself.

I like Dier in a back 3. If we lose Toby he's the most natural replacement if we go to 3 at the back. If we end up with Wanyama back to his best too it could be a great chance to get them both in the team without compromising our attack. I didn't like Hendo and Dier together but I appreciated the idea behind it at 1-0 up. Once it went to extra time I was worried about the 2 defensive midfielders. We sat back too much in the first half of ET, but I liked Hendo in the 2nd half of ET pressing higher up the pitch. Never a fan of 2 defensive midfielders anyway but even less so when you 3 centre backs. Once Dier slotted in for Walker and Hendo dropped back in we had better shape albeit for a very short time.
 
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