Player Watch Player Watch: Erik Lamela

Shadydan

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 7, 2012
Messages
20,334
Sorry, but I don't trust stats
The assist numbers depend entirely on the striker. Eriksen appears to have 1 less assist but he has a much bigger influence in our play and our chances. You take Eriksen out of the team, and we really feel it. You take Alli out and I don't see what we miss.
Be honest and tell me when's the last time you felt we really needed Alli in the pitch (assuming he didn't start).
Whenever we play our reserve side we ask for players like Eriksen, Son to step in, not Alli.
If you take Alli out the team you don't get the most out of Kane, those two have built up a telepathic partnership over the last 2.5 years for a start. Not to mention his partnership with Eriksen, the off the ball runs, his link up play, mentality...We would miss Alli in our team more then people actually realise.
 

OPModric

Active Member
Joined
May 10, 2010
Messages
379
Doesn't matter what you trust. You asked what he offers. He's 5th in assists in the league. You really don't think he would get in the starting 11 of any of the top 6? Nonsense.
.. And if you want to see it that way Lamela is more productive.

With Lamela coming back after a year of injury.
 

Ossie85

Rio de la Plata
Joined
Aug 2, 2008
Messages
3,254
Thread starter #1,483
If you take Alli out the team you don't get the most out of Kane, those two have built up a telepathic partnership over the last 2.5 years for a start. Not to mention his partnership with Eriksen, the off the ball runs, his link up play, mentality...We would miss Alli in our team more then people actually realise.
Ok, that's a more valid response than showing his number of assists.
I disagree in what we miss though. Personally I haven't missed him whenever he didn't start. Not one time. This doesn't mean I don't rate him, nor do I want him to be a sub. But he's def not indispensable.
So, returning to Lamela, why should we demand him to be a game changer, or all of the things Hercules said he had to show, when even our starter doesn't show him? I don't know if I make myself clear because the discussion went sideways, but this last question is why I brought Alli
 

Shadydan

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 7, 2012
Messages
20,334
And Pascal Gross is also 5th with Glen fucking Murray as a striker. He must also get into the starting 11 of any of the top 6 too

MC, Chelsea and Lpool play 3 up front. He wouldn't start in either. Man U have Mata who's more apt for the role. The only with 3 Am is Arsenal. Would he get ahead of Ozil? I doubt it
Why would he get into teams which have different tactical setups and instructions for their players, Sergio Aguero wouldn't get into our starting eleven, doesn't mean he isn't a good player, I hate that frigging comparison, it's absolutely meaningless.
 

Ossie85

Rio de la Plata
Joined
Aug 2, 2008
Messages
3,254
Thread starter #1,486
Why would he get into teams which have different tactical setups and instructions for their players, Sergio Aguero wouldn't get into our starting eleven, doesn't mean he isn't a good player, I hate that frigging comparison, it's absolutely meaningless.
I didn't bring up that question. I just followed it
 

Shadydan

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 7, 2012
Messages
20,334
Ok, that's a more valid response than showing his number of assists.
I disagree in what we miss though. Personally I haven't missed him whenever he didn't start. Not one time. This doesn't mean I don't rate him, nor do I want him to be a sub. But he's def not indispensable.
So, returning to Lamela, why should we demand him to be a game changer, or all of the things Hercules said he had to show, when even our starter doesn't show him? I don't know if I make myself clear because the discussion went sideways, but this last question is why I brought Alli
Manager seems to think he is, he's going to keep playing him for those exact reasons I stated.

I'm a fan of Lamela but Alli is more polished for the role the manager wants him to play which allows us to play the way we want to play, that doesn't mean that there isn't a place for him in the team cause there is. It's a squad game anyway, as long as we're winning and playing well which we are we should keep the same team barring any injuries, at the moment there's absolutely no need to change the starting eleven save the full backs.
 

Hercules

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 23, 2014
Messages
2,908
Into what? into the squad or first XI?? He would def get into Liverpool's squad and maybe Utd.

Why does he need to be a game changer?

Let's see the top 6 non starting AMs
MU: Lingard?
Lpool: Woodburn?, Lallana? Wijnaldum? Ox?
Chelsea: Barkley?
Arsenal: Iwobi? Maitland?
Reason to my question as an educated opinion, we will/may have to let one or two go for room for incomings, especially under foreign quota for CL.

I personally think both him and Sissoko (Please God) are the ones that stand to mind, as positions we want to strengthen. I believe that beyond our 14 obvious first team strong options that are good, we lack that extra spark (game-changer). Which means a Dembele replacement (apprentice), and someone in the mould of a Modric (ish), Hazard/Salah (ish) players. For example, if we had the option of Salah before he went to the puddle, would we of preferred Lamela over him? I believe these are decisions Poch has to wrestle with.
 

G Ron

Active Member
Joined
Aug 24, 2012
Messages
335
Until Poch can take out Alli I don't know the worth of updating other players.

Starting to think there is some boardroom politics in this. It might be hard for Poch to play the argentine over the english golden boy, even though Lamela is so much more talented.

I would keep Lamela over Alli any day. Alli wouldnt be near any of the other top teams starting eleven.
And Dele would?
I agree about the rest that you've said. But right now I don't think Dele would get into any of the top 6 teams starting XI either. Last season he offered goals. I don't know what he offers right now. I'm not asking for him to be sold or anything, and I do rate him. But I do wonder why you demand our sub to be in on of the top 6 starting XI to judge if he's good enough, when even 1 of our starters doesn't comply with that demand.
I was replying to the post above yours, hence the reference to making the first 11 of the current top 6
 

Ossie85

Rio de la Plata
Joined
Aug 2, 2008
Messages
3,254
Thread starter #1,491
Manager seems to think he is, he's going to keep playing him for those exact reasons I stated.

I'm a fan of Lamela but Alli is more polished for the role the manager wants him to play which allows us to play the way we want to play, that doesn't mean that there isn't a place for him in the team cause there is. It's a squad game anyway, as long as we're winning and playing well which we are we should keep the same team barring any injuries, at the moment there's absolutely no need to change the starting eleven save the full backs.
That's not my point though. I don't think Lamela should start ahead of Alli. But I'm using him as an example of a player who's not a game changer, but is important for us in other ways, mainly off the ball. Lamela also offers that imo (though differently). So it's unfair for to say he needs to be a game changer or we should sell him
 

am_yisrael_chai

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 18, 2006
Messages
5,714
That's not my point though. I don't think Lamela should start ahead of Alli. But I'm using him as an example of a player who's not a game changer, but is important for us in other ways, mainly off the ball. Lamela also offers that imo (though differently). So it's unfair for to say he needs to be a game changer or we should sell him
Shouldn’t be looking at potential upgrades for any of our players outside the first 11 ?

How can any forward player justify his place in the squad on the basis mainly of their off the ball work ?
 

Ossie85

Rio de la Plata
Joined
Aug 2, 2008
Messages
3,254
Thread starter #1,493
Shouldn’t be looking at potential upgrades for any of our players outside the first 11 ?

How can any forward player justify his place in the squad on the basis mainly of their off the ball work ?
If that's how you judge, how can Alli justify his place then?? Lamela has a better assist ratio

What we should do is upgrade our starting 11 if possible, not our bench. Our bench is as good or better than any of the other top 6 teams
 

ralvy

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 26, 2012
Messages
984
I like Lamela, but believe he is expendable. He plays in almost similar position to Pjanic, alright, slightly different. But where we are now, he has to be giving more than being committed. When he came in for example, what threat did he offer? Now criticism, but observation. Poch has to make difficult decisions, and I am not talking about Sissoko for example, as he is a different type of player. Not that I rate him mind you.

I just question if at his age, taking into account his serious challenges he has overcome. Can he take us to the next level? I personally am not sure.
First, no one cares if you like Lamela or not. If you feel you're giving out a fair and balanced opinion, then you don't need to try to prove it or whatever by saying how much you like the player you're about to shit all over.

Second, Lamela is a big part of us being on "where we are now". He was essential to our 15-16 season, which was our game changing season.

Third, clearly Lamela gives us more than just "being committed". Our pressing game, whenever we adopt it, is usually commanded by both him and Dembele. Without him we're not that good at pressing teams, and it's probably one of the main reasons we failed to give Chelsea a proper title challenge last season (the other being that amazing run Chelsea went in at the middle of the season). Besides that, he's probably our best creative passer behind Eriksen. He has created quite a lot of goal scoring opportunities since he has been with us. How do you translate that to him offering nothing else besides "being committed"?

Fourth, If you want to clear some space to bring Malcom in, then there are a few players which are way more expendable than Lamela (Sissoko, Llorente and Winks rapidly come to mind). In fact, maybe even Son should be considered of being let go before Lamela (considering his obligations to serve on is nations army).

Fifth, Lamela already has given a couple of MotMish performances since returning from injury, and one of them was away at Juve at the CL. If you really want to get rid of that in favor of Malcom, then you better hope that Malcom be as good as, I dunno, Rivaldo or AVB's Bale. If not, then its a move that really wouldn't make that much sense.
 

jezz

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 21, 2013
Messages
5,289
Shouldn’t be looking at potential upgrades for any of our players outside the first 11 ?

How can any forward player justify his place in the squad on the basis mainly of their off the ball work ?
Maybe it's what the manager demands.
The press that we use is crucial to our game plan.
It's a team game and every cog plays its part.
Just because your not scoring every game dosent mean your not contributing to the team's success.
 

Hercules

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 23, 2014
Messages
2,908
First, no one cares if you like Lamela or not. If you feel you're giving out a fair and balanced opinion, then you don't need to try to prove it or whatever by saying how much you like the player you're about to shit all over.

Second, Lamela is a big part of us being on "where we are now". He was essential to our 15-16 season, which was our game changing season.

Third, clearly Lamela gives us more than just "being committed". Our pressing game, whenever we adopt it, is usually commanded by both him and Dembele. Without him we're not that good at pressing teams, and it's probably one of the main reasons we failed to give Chelsea a proper title challenge last season (the other being that amazing run Chelsea went in at the middle of the season). Besides that, he's probably our best creative passer behind Eriksen. He has created quite a lot of goal scoring opportunities since he has been with us. How do you translate that to him offering nothing else besides "being committed"?

Fourth, If you want to clear some space to bring Malcom in, then there are a few players which are way more expendable than Lamela (Sissoko, Llorente and Winks rapidly come to mind). In fact, maybe even Son should be considered of being let go before Lamela (considering his obligations to serve on is nations army).

Fifth, Lamela already has given a couple of MotMish performances since returning from injury, and one of them was away at Juve at the CL. If you really want to get rid of that in favor of Malcom, then you better hope that Malcom be as good as, I dunno, Rivaldo or AVB's Bale. If not, then its a move that really wouldn't make that much sense.
I cannot agree with most of your comments, but respect them. I will state again that I like Lamela, but personally believe he is expendable. I don’t call that ‘shitting’ over him.
 

Ossie85

Rio de la Plata
Joined
Aug 2, 2008
Messages
3,254
Thread starter #1,497
Reason to my question as an educated opinion, we will/may have to let one or two go for room for incomings, especially under foreign quota for CL.

I personally think both him and Sissoko (Please God) are the ones that stand to mind, as positions we want to strengthen. I believe that beyond our 14 obvious first team strong options that are good, we lack that extra spark (game-changer). Which means a Dembele replacement (apprentice), and someone in the mould of a Modric (ish), Hazard/Salah (ish) players. For example, if we had the option of Salah before he went to the puddle, would we of preferred Lamela over him? I believe these are decisions Poch has to wrestle with.
I understand.
Poch doesn't seem to want to let him go since he has played every game since he returned. He even started at a very important match as the one in Turin.
If we want to bring someone of Salah's quality for the starting XI (or at least to really challenge it), I understand letting Lamela go, specially for the foreign quota.
But if it's to bring Malcom, I have to say it's not a good decision.
 

Hercules

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 23, 2014
Messages
2,908
I understand.
Poch doesn't seem to want to let him go since he has played every game since he returned. He even started at a very important match as the one in Turin.
If we want to bring someone of Salah's quality for the starting XI (or at least to really challenge it), I understand letting Lamela go, specially for the foreign quota.
But if it's to bring Malcom, I have to say it's not a good decision.
I respect your argument, and it is the kind of responsible arguments I wanted to hear. Appreciate your comments sincerely. I believe we have to make some decisions. Whilst I may feel he is expendable, I can also see your argument.
 

TEESSIDE1

Bring back Juande Ramos :p
Joined
Jul 3, 2006
Messages
10,023
Maybe it's what the manager demands.
The press that we use is crucial to our game plan.
It's a team game and every cog plays its part.
Just because your not scoring every game dosent mean your not contributing to the team's success.
But what Hercs is alluding to is we’re looking to strengthen our squad and to do that we need to let players go. Unfortunately for Lamela he’s got a shocking injury record and his contract is running down. Out of our existing attacking midfielders he’s got the least going for him. Sissoko, I don’t class him as an attacking midfielder, I don’t think he even knows what his best position is. Surely when we’ve shipped Sissoko out he’ll be replaced by a central midfielder.
 

am_yisrael_chai

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 18, 2006
Messages
5,714
If that's how you judge, how can Alli justify his place then?? Lamela has a better assist ratio

What we should do is upgrade our starting 11 if possible, not our bench. Our bench is as good or better than any of the other top 6 teams
If we look to improve our first 11 then surely the players who leave are not from our first 11 but from the bench ?
 
Top