What's new

Harry Winks - Leicester City

chinaman

Well-Known Member
Jul 19, 2003
17,974
12,423
I fucking love Winks.

I love the fact he’ll get better each season, the fact he’s one of our own and the fact he respects my squad number OCD and is wearing the number 8 shirt ???

He’s a different kind of player to what Dembele was but that is just fine and he provides a different kind of quality.

Now just waiting for Skipps to come through and make it a spurs twosome in midfield (or Binks :playful::playful:).


Or a threesome Binks Skipp Winks.
 

coys200

Well-Known Member
May 22, 2017
8,436
17,403
Watched the 2nd half again he was very decent. Yes were a couple of misplaced passes but nothing major. One thing is for sure as the deepest CM he was doing things Dier can only dream about. Will be very interesting going forward now who is the preferred CDM. I suspect it will probably still rotate a lot as winks and Dier can still play together.
 

glospur

Well-Known Member
May 19, 2015
2,608
9,806
A 22 year old homegrown midfielder saw more of the ball (sorry to use a BC-ism, guys) than any other midfielder on the pitch, which included Rakitic, Coutinho, and one of the finest young midfielders in the world in Arthur, at the Camp Nou of all places and used it at 87% efficiency and yet some people are still so football illiterate that they criticise him because of one or two loose passes.

His was almost the perfect deep midfield, deep-lying playmaker to use FM parlance, performance. He received and recycled all game long, providing the possession platform for the the players further forward, especially Eriksen, to work their magic. If your criticism is, "Oh, but he just passed sideways and backwards," then simply put, you have absolutely 0 understanding of what's required in the role he was playing last night, and how important it is to retain possession.

I genuinely don't know what some people expect from players in that position, or that perhaps they have such a poor working knowledge of the game that they don't know how important that role is in possession based teams.
 

coys200

Well-Known Member
May 22, 2017
8,436
17,403
In theory I’d agree he’s almost the perfect modern day deep playmaker. Great passing range can put his foot in and can cover ground. And physically he will only get stronger next couple years. The funny thing is in theory Skipp could be even better as I think he’s got that extra defensive edge on Winks and I think he’s a couple inches taller.
 

DogsOfWar

Well-Known Member
Jan 12, 2005
2,293
3,603
Someone hit the nail on the head earlier in the thread when they pointed out that it is his ability to always be available that marks him out.

Harry is always in space looking to receive the ball. That allows us to play out from the back, play across the field, recycle possession in the final third.
He's a link man, like Modric, and there aren't many better than him at his age.
 

glospur

Well-Known Member
May 19, 2015
2,608
9,806
In theory I’d agree he’s almost the perfect modern day deep playmaker. Great passing range can put his foot in and can cover ground. And physically he will only get stronger next couple years. The funny thing is in theory Skipp could be even better as I think he’s got that extra defensive edge on Winks and I think he’s a couple inches taller.
From what I've seen of Skipp, they could actually make quite the complimentary combination in a few years time. Like you say, Skipp is a bit more physical and still 18, so she should fill out quite a bit more, and what Winks lacks in size he more than makes up for in dogged determination and tenacity. And better yet, they're both proper footballing midfielders.
 

Shepspurs

Well-Known Member
Dec 8, 2006
2,224
2,338
From what I've seen of Skipp, they could actually make quite the complimentary combination in a few years time. Like you say, Skipp is a bit more physical and still 18, so she should fill out quite a bit more, and what Winks lacks in size he more than makes up for in dogged determination and tenacity. And better yet, they're both proper footballing midfielders.

Could be popular in the changing room.
 

C0YS

Just another member
Jul 9, 2007
12,780
13,817
Surely comparisons to Parker are a complement? In his two seasons here Parker was an England regular and in the mix for the captaincy, won fans player of the season in an exciting, title competing team and got into the PFA team of the year. The season before Parker won the fwa PL player of the season at West Ham. If Winks has a career like Parker I'd be very happy with that.
 

punkisback

Well-Known Member
Apr 10, 2004
4,410
7,278
Surely comparisons to Parker are a complement? In his two seasons here Parker was an England regular and in the mix for the captaincy, won fans player of the season in an exciting, title competing team and got into the PFA team of the year. The season before Parker won the fwa PL player of the season at West Ham. If Winks has a career like Parker I'd be very happy with that.
I’d rather he be a Modric than a Parker. Scott has heart but Luka was the real deal.
 

C0YS

Just another member
Jul 9, 2007
12,780
13,817
I’d rather he be a Modric than a Parker. Scott has heart but Luka was the real deal.
Both were very good for us, but yes Modric is a ballon d'or winner and Parker a fwa award winner and thats all that needs to be said. If he gets close to having a career like either one of them he would have done well. The point is though that they are different players. Winks in style is sort of between them.

Against Barca though Winks was holding. His job wasn't to be creative. It was to be available to receive the ball under pressure, cover the fullbacks, and help transition the team from defense into attacking midfield. His job was not to pick out 40 yard wonder passes, or break through from midfield. His job was to be sensible.

WInks can play many different roles, Poch has alluded to this. He can play both as an 8 and as a holding midfielder. Yesterday he was holding, keeping the team balanced and allowing Sissoko (who has many qualities but is not a holding player) freedom to break from deep and hunt the ball without leaving us to exposed.

He did his job well, and grew into the game. He could of prevented or made it more difficult for dembele come their first goal, and was a bit sloppy first half. Second half he played better and better and in the end he contributed a lot. Not his best game, but not a bad game.
 

Dzejkob

Well-Known Member
Aug 13, 2012
785
3,215
A 22 year old homegrown midfielder saw more of the ball (sorry to use a BC-ism, guys) than any other midfielder on the pitch, which included Rakitic, Coutinho, and one of the finest young midfielders in the world in Arthur, at the Camp Nou of all places and used it at 87% efficiency and yet some people are still so football illiterate that they criticise him because of one or two loose passes.

His was almost the perfect deep midfield, deep-lying playmaker to use FM parlance, performance. He received and recycled all game long, providing the possession platform for the the players further forward, especially Eriksen, to work their magic. If your criticism is, "Oh, but he just passed sideways and backwards," then simply put, you have absolutely 0 understanding of what's required in the role he was playing last night, and how important it is to retain possession.

I genuinely don't know what some people expect from players in that position, or that perhaps they have such a poor working knowledge of the game that they don't know how important that role is in possession based teams.

I disagree with you. IMO if we want to fight for big things, we need more than just simply 'retaining possesion' as you said. Yes, I think we should expect more from a player in that position. Some stats from squawka (all per 90 mins):

1544961766927.png

1544961800817.png


I took Milner as he is getting a lot of praise from Live fans and pundits as well so was curious how he will look in my small comaprision.

So when we look at sideway or backward passes he doesn't look bad. But when we look at forward passes, through balls, chances created - then we can see big difference. When it comes to ball touches he is pretty avarage too.

Milner or Fernandinho aren't much better in forward play but when we look at defensive statics, they are much better in this area. Winks has least interceptions - others have 3 times more!

My point is that Winks is not very good in defence, also not very good in attack. He is just avarage player for now. We can't praise him automatically because his a homegrown. We are TOP3 Premier League team. We can't defend him all the time saying 'but he was keeping the position'. We could say that in his first season but eventually he has to start showing something more. IMO he is not doing that this season.
 

@Bobby__Lucky

Well-Known Member
Aug 20, 2013
2,933
3,982
I disagree with you. IMO if we want to fight for big things, we need more than just simply 'retaining possesion' as you said. Yes, I think we should expect more from a player in that position. Some stats from squawka (all per 90 mins):

View attachment 43117
View attachment 43118

I took Milner as he is getting a lot of praise from Live fans and pundits as well so was curious how he will look in my small comaprision.

So when we look at sideway or backward passes he doesn't look bad. But when we look at forward passes, through balls, chances created - then we can see big difference. When it comes to ball touches he is pretty avarage too.

Milner or Fernandinho aren't much better in forward play but when we look at defensive statics, they are much better in this area. Winks has least interceptions - others have 3 times more!

My point is that Winks is not very good in defence, also not very good in attack. He is just avarage player for now. We can't praise him automatically because his a homegrown. We are TOP3 Premier League team. We can't defend him all the time saying 'but he was keeping the position'. We could say that in his first season but eventually he has to start showing something more. IMO he is not doing that this season.

Not every player will be world superstar in our team or from the academy. But he is not an average footballer.

Not to say he is or has modric potential, but these accusations of being short of being a top player based on average defensive and attacking statistics were also thrown at him.

It is clear where his inspiration comes from though, I k ow it was said he used to watch modric closely to learn from him, but its evident he watched Parker closely too.

Regardless statistics don't say everything and sometimes they say nothing. Winks is definitely an eyes in player. He is a conduit, an outlet, a shifting hydrid of skill set who calms, manifests and positionally affects both our tactical advantage and opponents disadvantage.

He has huge potential for me and his desire will be key to this progression. He doesn't have to be a balloon d'or winner.. Xavi never won it, nor iniesta, nor hoddle, ginola, Bale, Klinsmann, ardilies, Archibald or waddle.

Michael Owen did though...

And to tie uo nicely with regard effort and desire and winning the balloon d'or. Kevin keegan is a 2 time winner. Keegans career was based on desire, passion and effort and constantly trying to improve on what he had. It can take you a long long way. Winks has enough of what he needs to be whatever he wants at spurs.
 

Dzejkob

Well-Known Member
Aug 13, 2012
785
3,215
Not every player will be world superstar in our team or from the academy. But he is not an average footballer.

Not to say he is or has modric potential, but these accusations of being short of being a top player based on average defensive and attacking statistics were also thrown at him.

It is clear where his inspiration comes from though, I k ow it was said he used to watch modric closely to learn from him, but its evident he watched Parker closely too.

Regardless statistics don't say everything and sometimes they say nothing. Winks is definitely an eyes in player. He is a conduit, an outlet, a shifting hydrid of skill set who calms, manifests and positionally affects both our tactical advantage and opponents disadvantage.

He has huge potential for me and his desire will be key to this progression. He doesn't have to be a balloon d'or winner.. Xavi never won it, nor iniesta, nor hoddle, ginola, Bale, Klinsmann, ardilies, Archibald or waddle.

Michael Owen did though...

And to tie uo nicely with regard effort and desire and winning the balloon d'or. Kevin keegan is a 2 time winner. Keegans career was based on desire, passion and effort and constantly trying to improve on what he had. It can take you a long long way. Winks has enough of what he needs to be whatever he wants at spurs.
I agree that statistic don't say everything. But it is not that they are meaningless. Dembele is a good example. We all know how important he is for us when in form. But he is missing something in final third. Although his other qualities cover what he is missing. In Winks I can't see anything that makes him special. I disagree with comaprisons to Tom Carrol, IMO Winks is better and I do think that he can be a regular Premier League player. Although I'm not sure if he is good enough to be regular starter at Spurs. Maybe squad player.

You mentioned Scott Parker. I liked him a lot and probably not only me. But he spent most of his career in WHU and Fulham and only 2 years and Spurs. That means something. Good player but not good enough for us. And I feel similar with Winks - not good enough.
 

@Bobby__Lucky

Well-Known Member
Aug 20, 2013
2,933
3,982
I agree that statistic don't say everything. But it is not that they are meaningless. Dembele is a good example. We all know how important he is for us when in form. But he is missing something in final third. Although his other qualities cover what he is missing. In Winks I can't see anything that makes him special. I disagree with comaprisons to Tom Carrol, IMO Winks is better and I do think that he can be a regular Premier League player. Although I'm not sure if he is good enough to be regular starter at Spurs. Maybe squad player.

You mentioned Scott Parker. I liked him a lot and probably not only me. But he spent most of his career in WHU and Fulham and only 2 years and Spurs. That means something. Good player but not good enough for us. And I feel similar with Winks - not good enough.

It's all about opinions and perspectives.. You make a good case for your decision and I respect it, even if we disagree.

Time will tell I guess. My good friend C who is a arsenal fan didn't rate him at all when I showed him some vids a couple of years back, but is coming around.. Though our 5 year debate on who is better of kane and lukaku is still going..

Anyway respect your stats collation and veiw regardless.
 

Japhet

Well-Known Member
Aug 30, 2010
19,232
57,392
I disagree with you. IMO if we want to fight for big things, we need more than just simply 'retaining possesion' as you said. Yes, I think we should expect more from a player in that position. Some stats from squawka (all per 90 mins):

View attachment 43117
View attachment 43118

I took Milner as he is getting a lot of praise from Live fans and pundits as well so was curious how he will look in my small comaprision.

So when we look at sideway or backward passes he doesn't look bad. But when we look at forward passes, through balls, chances created - then we can see big difference. When it comes to ball touches he is pretty avarage too.

Milner or Fernandinho aren't much better in forward play but when we look at defensive statics, they are much better in this area. Winks has least interceptions - others have 3 times more!

My point is that Winks is not very good in defence, also not very good in attack.
He is just avarage player for now. We can't praise him automatically because his a homegrown. We are TOP3 Premier League team. We can't defend him all the time saying 'but he was keeping the position'. We could say that in his first season but eventually he has to start showing something more. IMO he is not doing that this season.


He's not a dedicated attacking or defensive nidfielder though. His job is to transition the ball from back to front and disrupt the opponents in possession which he does pretty well. He moves the ball quicker than Dembele and is not afraid to have a run with it either. What he does best is recycling the ball and getting in to the likes of Eiksen, Moura and Son.
 

bubble07

Well-Known Member
Dec 27, 2004
22,959
29,896
Just don't know who his ideal cm partner needs to be? Probably someone stronger with more speed and probably a box to box cm rather then a defensive mid

But who??? Keira type player probably would do it
 

dtxspurs

Welcome to the Good Life
Dec 28, 2017
11,234
46,574
Just don't know who his ideal cm partner needs to be? Probably someone stronger with more speed and probably a box to box cm rather then a defensive mid

But who??? Keira type player probably would do it
Are you suggesting not playing with a defensive midfielder?
 

kmk

Well-Known Member
Oct 5, 2014
4,147
27,504
Just don't know who his ideal cm partner needs to be? Probably someone stronger with more speed and probably a box to box cm rather then a defensive mid

But who??? Keira type player probably would do it

Oliver Skipp with Winks would be worth a try against Tranmere or Southport in the FA Cup.
 
Top