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Discussion in 'Spurs Chat' started by Dharmabum, Feb 3, 2016.
He is so obviously a CM I don't understand why Poch doesn't see it.
They were saying the complete opposite after their previous game. Just normal football fan knee-jerk nonsense.
Thank goodness we're not like that on here.
So that means every time they’ve praised him it must also have been nonsense?
The inability of some people on here to accept any criticism of any of our players is bizarre. These guys are watching him every week and you think their opinions are invalid because you don’t like what they’re saying.
I’m a big fan of Josh on the ball, but there are certainly big flaws in his game off the ball, both in and out of possession. Needs to get more involved when his team has the ball (this is hugely exacerbated in games like Sunday where Villa didn’t even bother trying to string two passes together) and is far too easy to run off when his team are defending.
He’s was more off a striker than a 10 imo
Just a typical awful Bruce team.
Villa fans are probably being extra harsh on Josh since he isn't their player, and he's taking minutes away from youngsters who will still be there next season.
But if he helps them get promoted why do they care, play him in his proper role Bruce ya melon.
Generally you need a lot of maturity to be a CM in a top 6 team.Which makes winks progress all the more impressive.Players I still look at as young De Bruyne Pogba bakayoko are 26 24 23 respectively.Josh Just needs time he is only 20.5. But the next couple of years are clearly crucial for him.I just don’t see this Villa loan is doing him any favours.Im sure he could get a Bottom half of PL loan otherwise he should come back.
As others have said these posts are just the ramblings and venting of fickle football fans. Unsurprisingly played out of position he struggles. One minutes he's the best player they've seen and in their words 'is dembele's understudy' the next out of position 'he will never take Dembele's spot' it's ridiculous, and ultimately meaningless.
If he has a bad game people will inevitably go back to criticising his work rate. I've always said he will always be an easy scapegoat in a poor team performance because of it. Regardless comments from fans is meaningless if he is playing up front, as no one here thinks, he will be a forward for us, so they're not telling us anything we don't know. He isn't a good forward
Perfectly happy to hear he isn't getting on well or for any facet of his game to be criticised. I just don't think it is fair to play someone who has gone to you to play CM as a 10 and then complain when the games passes him by. It's stupid
Question - why is it that Poch and Bruce do not see Onomah as a CM? There has to be something they see - imo - that keeps them pushing Josh into a more advanced role.
I am not yet ready to concede that SC posters know more about football than Poch and Bruce - combined. Convince me you know better!
I think wrongly, both managers would rather go with a stronger player in CM and think Onomah is too lightweight for CM
You're like that guy Remus from Boardwalk Empire.
let's be honest, nothing anyone here says is going to convince you of that.
for what it's worth though, i think neither manager trusts him to be defensively disciplined enough in his positioning or tracking of runners but they see he has quality on the ball and want to get him in the side so push him forward where any perceived defensive frailties are less important. he has flaws but he's 20 years old, of course there are going to be parts to his game that need improving but the important thing is that in his actual position he has a ton of positives and the further forward you move him the more of those positives you take away. yesterday he was virtually playing as a striker with villa lumping the ball up to him and kodjia, anyone judging him on that game are stupid.
i really am a big fan of his but it's not just blind faith. if villa want a striker i wouldn't pick onomah over keinan davis, if they want a #10 i wouldn't pick him over callum o'hare, if they want someone to play on the left I wouldn't pick him over grealish but i would pick him over any cm they have there 100%. it's funny because villa fans lay into onomah for having a poor game and yet they say nothing about hourihane who nearly cost them a goal by playing a blind back-pass leading to a 1v1, or nothing about whelan who shat his pants on the halfway line and fell over gifting birmingham another great chance, no they just lay into the spurs kid who struggled to get into the game with the ball being lumped over his head all game.
honestly i'd rather he didn't play again if he's going to continue to be misused, all it will do is attract more criticism and probably dent his confidence as a result. this loan always looked a poor fit from the off and i have no idea how he ended up with them when there were reportedly far better equipped sides in for him.
Criticism of performance is fine, but context is important.
If say for example Eriksen (or whoever, throw in any elite level example) was told to go and play as the second striker in some old school, basic, lower league, back to front football system then he too would almost certainly not play very well. Who is at fault though, the player or the manager for completely misusing him?
I keep saying it every few weeks it seems, but this loan just goes from bad to worse because of the state of Villa, before we even get to Onomah's performances. Starts off with him being one of the rare highlights of a team that cant play football to save it's life, you're feeling sorry for the kid that he's got the thankless task of being surrounded by a sea of shit every week - but then it got worse, Steve Bruce gives up on trying to play football, puts in all his experienced cloggers and goes 4-4-2 to get some results and Josh, promising start or not, is on the bench - now he is back in the team, great you'd think, but played up front expected to chase after balls launched vaguely in his direction.
Of course some might make the argument that it's all part of the learning experience, toughening him up etc etc, getting a dose of the reality of senior level football and having to fight for his place..... But I cant imagine the club are too happy about how this is going, well I'd hope they're not.
Its not that I need convincing, its that I think at some point, for maybe lots of different reasons, CM is not his best position at the senior level. Despite playing well in that position at younger levels, perhaps he is missing something that manager want/need to see to trust him in a CM role - so if he does not have those things - its not his "best position".
I think the loan is good for him - but I think he needs to learn to accept that he has to perform higher up the pitch, or he is not going to get the opportunities at this level.
You could make the case that Dele's best position is at CM - but for perhaps similar reasons, Poch was reluctant to play him deeper. Dele still made the most of his opportunities at the more advanced positions, and now two years later, Dele is starting to see some deeper responsibilities. Players have to take whats available, not demand certain opportunities.
Onomah needs to fight to get on the pitch, in whatever position the manager wants - as he matures, he may settle in a deeper role, but for now it seems like he has to adapt to playing further up. If he does not adapt, he will find himself left behind in lower leagues, and he owes it to himself to do what it takes so that does not happen.
Why is it John McDermott, Ugo Ehiogu and all England youth coaches think he is a CM and not a striker/AM. I'll also add Bruce said he thought Josh was a CM.
You don't have to believe any SC posters but I'll believe McDermott, England coaches and former PL players with regards to where they think he plays best than one manager. Managers and coaches don't all agree with each other. I'll believe the ones that are responsible for producing quality players rather than the managers stifling their opportunities.
But Alli's strength is around the box and scoring goals. He largely gets criticised for his general play. If he doesn't score goals or assists he isn't affecting the game and some people believe he is detrimental. I generally play Alli even if he plays badly as he may score but if his goals dried up I wouldn't put him in CM as I don't think he is that great there. He ill be disciplined and pass the ball around but doesn't do much otherwise.
Similarly Onomah isn't great around the box and it isn't his strength, he has never played there and probably doesn't really know what to do, to expect someone to adapt in an alien position playing off a striker or on the wing in the most competitive league is a bit of an unrealistic expectation. As BG said if they want him to play striker they should play their own as he will be better, If Poch and Bruce don't want to use him as a CM then I hope he leaves and doesn't continue to waste his career, as England will be missing out on a potentially quality player
I think I addressed this above - is it possible, that, at the senior level, CM is not his best position?
I have seen him boss youth games from CM - but perhaps he is not ready for that at the senior level. Just as Dele went from CM at MK to a more advanced role here initially, and may still settle back in a deeper role before all is said and done.
I think Villa is a pretty decent loan for him. It's a huge club, they're expected to win most games and there's quite the pressure there. I know their fotball is pretty dire, but I'd say it's a good place for Onomah to work on his weaknesses.
It may be a very simplistic view, but if he's to genuinely have a future with us, he should be able to deliver consistently at that level and prove himself to be trustworthy in terms of getting the basics right. After we moved away from the Bentaleb/Mason axis, the deeper CM roles are reserved for responsible players. Poch would probably sooner play Glenn Whelan than Xhaka in those roles.
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