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Player watch: Josh Onomah

double0

Well-Known Member
Aug 29, 2006
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I'll add too Dele Alli is another player imo who still hasn't fully developed but what a freak Alli is when you consider the level he's at already .
 

Cornpattbuck

Well-Known Member
Jul 23, 2013
6,873
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You can tell Josh will be a powerful player just like Kane in respect that they need / needed time to grow into their frames and control it.

Not at all saying Josh is Kane or anything of the sort , I look at Onomah and think this guy could be frightening once and IF he/can take control.

Yup. It only REALLY clicked for Dembele part way through his career. I think Onomah will make it but he's going to have plenty of ups and downs along the way. So much potential though.
 

IfiHadTheWings

Well-Known Member
Aug 5, 2013
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Maybe the loan at Villa is helping him physically, training against players with less emphasis on techinal ability where it is all about desire, application and grit. I believe some of the best loans go a bit ‘wrong’ and its backs against the wall adding to the cliched character building, it was certainly men against boys yesterday.

Really hope he comes back in the summer with the fire in his belly because the ability is clearly there.
 

JUSTINSIGNAL

Well-Known Member
Jul 10, 2008
15,980
48,499
Onomah has always looked physically dominant and confident against the same age groups. It's when he's up against men that he struggles.

Until he learns to use his physicality in mens football and ups his work rate and discipline off the ball I don't think he will ever be trusted in a deep central midfield role for us
 

Ron Burgundy

SC Supporter
Jun 19, 2008
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Every time I see him now it just becomes all the more frustrating

Technically and physically, he has absolutely everything he needs to become a top class CM. I have little doubt about that.

If you layer over Makalele's tactical understanding/discipline into him, he's themost ideal long term Dembele replacement we could ever want, but that's the piece that seems to be missing, and he's in this very awkward catch 22 situation:

He needs to play there, to get the experience and grow into the role, but seemingly the managers that he's been under don't think he's ready to perform that role at the level required.

I'm not sure how you that break that cycle, or certainly not in a team like ours where, other than early League Cup rounds, every game is a must win.

Tricky
 

Bus-Conductor

SC Supporter
Oct 19, 2004
39,837
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Every time I see him now it just becomes all the more frustrating

Technically and physically, he has absolutely everything he needs to become a top class CM. I have little doubt about that.

If you layer over Makalele's tactical understanding/discipline into him, he's themost ideal long term Dembele replacement we could ever want, but that's the piece that seems to be missing, and he's in this very awkward catch 22 situation:

He needs to play there, to get the experience and grow into the role, but seemingly the managers that he's been under don't think he's ready to perform that role at the level required.

I'm not sure how you that break that cycle, or certainly not in a team like ours where, other than early League Cup rounds, every game is a must win.

Tricky


If only we played games in between seasons when playing him there couldn't cost us anything....
 

beats1

Well-Known Member
Feb 22, 2010
30,006
29,551
Onomah has always looked physically dominant and confident against the same age groups. It's when he's up against men that he struggles.

Until he learns to use his physicality in mens football and ups his work rate and discipline off the ball I don't think he will ever be trusted in a deep central midfield role for us
I would argue the opposite, he has been a reasonably sized player who had a growth spurt in his first year iirc

As for youth football, go back and look he has always looked weak in youth football, chelsea literally have men in their midfield

Again mens football he has shone when played in CM but that is a very rare occurrence
 
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Spursmad321

Well-Known Member
Aug 10, 2014
372
1,131


A very interesting video where you can clearly see his confidence growing as you watch the video, the last two clips playing for England and then Villa really show what a great player he could be for us. I specially like is vision/passing ability.
 

Cravenspurs

Well-Known Member
Jul 31, 2011
2,864
3,680
A very interesting video where you can clearly see his confidence growing as you watch the video, the last two clips playing for England and then Villa really show what a great player he could be for us. I specially like is vision/passing ability.

Unfortunately that was all from the first 1/4 of the season probably and he hasn't done much since. He started out as the Villa love child and now loathed. His physical abilities have never been in question. All comes down to application.

One would think that seeing your U-21 mate Cook get his first Cap for England would spark a bit of urgency. We shall see and it is all up to the kid now.

But I do wonder. Would a coach like Pep motivate this kid? You can hate all you want on Pep as a person, but players seem to love playing for him and I don't think many would have envisioned Sterling's output.
 

EQP

EQP
Sep 1, 2013
7,958
29,657
Unfortunately that was all from the first 1/4 of the season probably and he hasn't done much since. He started out as the Villa love child and now loathed. His physical abilities have never been in question. All comes down to application.

One would think that seeing your U-21 mate Cook get his first Cap for England would spark a bit of urgency. We shall see and it is all up to the kid now.

But I do wonder. Would a coach like Pep motivate this kid? You can hate all you want on Pep as a person, but players seem to love playing for him and I don't think many would have envisioned Sterling's output.

I don't think Pep would play Onomah as AM or LM, so in that aspect, Pep would get the best out of Onomah. Thats the whole issue with Josh, not that he lacks the skillset or physical tools, he just hasn't been given the chance to shine in his preferred position of CM. Anyway, we've covered this ad nauseam in this thread.
 

blackburn

Active Member
Aug 31, 2012
809
1,132
We've always given youngsters a chance in midfield, look at Marney, Livermore, Mason etc, let's not forget Josh has started games for us. Players find their level, it remains to be seen what Josh's is but at the moment he's nowhere near improving our team. Look, we've moved to another level, as much as we all love seeing our own kids come through it's going to become increasingly difficult.
 

IGSpur

Well-Known Member
Jan 11, 2013
7,939
13,758
Unfortunately that was all from the first 1/4 of the season probably and he hasn't done much since. He started out as the Villa love child and now loathed. His physical abilities have never been in question. All comes down to application.

One would think that seeing your U-21 mate Cook get his first Cap for England would spark a bit of urgency. We shall see and it is all up to the kid now.

But I do wonder. Would a coach like Pep motivate this kid? You can hate all you want on Pep as a person, but players seem to love playing for him and I don't think many would have envisioned Sterling's output.

Cook is a lot more all action than Onomah. And that's the thing in this country work-rate, energy will always be rated higher and prioritised over ability. Not saying that Cook doesn't have ability btw. But a player with a load of talent in this country and a lack of work rate, won't ever be risked. I'm sure in other countries even when they're not the full package, they are coached and worked with to fit into a team. The managers will make adjustments to their team or introduce them during less risky times as they realise that an academy player isn't the complete player, and strive to make it work. A player with great talent, determination and physique is basically the complete player.

In England playes have to have the physical/work-horse attributes first and foremost and then managers hope they improve their ability but they will never reach a high standard as they didn't have the ability to begin with. You've got players like AMs and creative CMs who've grown up displaying their skill and creativity expected to have the same baseline work rate of a DM or a less talented kid who has made his way with less talent but constantly working. It is brilliant that those kids are working hard an making the most of their ability but you've got to make allowances for players of both types. Otherwise you only get one type of player to come through, and then pundits and fans a like wonder why there is such a lack of talent in England and why we're having to select from Livermore, Henderson, Drinkwater etc for our CM. The only talented English CM is Wilshere and he came through a team where they prioritise passing the ball and don't have much solidity in midfield.

I can just see Mount returning from his loan and not getting a chance for being too lightweight or putting himself about enough.

The talent in England is there it just never comes through, we expect things to change without doing anything different ourselves. Instead of just blaming the talented player for not working hard enough, as if England players are less hard working than players from other countries, we should look at other ways of making it work. It is harder to coach talent than it is to coach someone to be hard working. That usually comes with maturity and age anyway.

Carroll was considered to light weight to make a PL CM and he plays regularly now. Onomah can't be that much of a liability surely. A couple of games coming on as a CM when we were 2/3 nil up. An FA Cup or CC match in CM alongside Dier or Wanyama. If he became a quality CM for us surely the rewards outweigh the minimal risks. Shows the same patience we showed when Lamela was being muscled off the ball all over the place. Just be a bit more creative than saying he will never make it if he isn't charging around at 100mph
 

Bus-Conductor

SC Supporter
Oct 19, 2004
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Came across this and I think it’s a really good read:

https://cartilagefreecaptain.sbnati...m-hotspur-loan-update-josh-onomah-aston-villa

It’s been a while since we checked in on, or even thought about, Josh Onomah. The young Tottenham Hotspur midfielder impressed this summer as England won the U20 World Cup, but has found minutes hard to come by at Spurs, and Mauricio Pochettino shipped him off to Aston Villa for a season-long loan.

Joshy’s arrival at Villa Park caused quite a bit of excitement, and Onomah has gotten a lot of minutes as the Villains chase promotion back to the Premier League. But it hasn’t always been a smooth road for him in the Midlands this season.

We decided to talk to James Rushton, managing editor at SB Nation’s Villa blog 7500 to Holte to get an idea of how Josh is doing this season, and whether there are any takeaways from his loan.

After an initial period of excitement, Villa fans seem to have cooled on Joshy. Why is that?

Josh started really hot, and came over with a great deal of hype. Initially, he impressed and he didn’t stop. The issue was, he was a good player in a Villa side that didn’t know its best lineup, and didn’t even know it’s own identity. It was thus very easy for someone to step up to a plate, since nobody else was. I hope that doesn’t detract from my, or your, opinion of him - but it was very simple for him to stand out, and perform well, when barely anyone was. There’s a bit of unrest on our side that Josh didn’t kick on when the side started to really get going, and that’s testament to our high opinions of him as a player, we just wanted to see that little bit more. He hasn’t always had the best run under Steve Bruce, and even played as a striker for us, so I don’t think it’s unfair to put all the blame upon Josh’s shoulders. On a final note, there’s a growing opinion that Onomah doesn’t ‘try hard’ enough for us. I think it’s grossly unfair to state that, and while he has looked out of sorts at times, I wouldn’t say its to do with lack of effort, but that he sometimes gets a bit ‘lost’ in games.



What do your eyes tell you that these numbers (in the sidebar) don’t?

I respect Ted Knutson’s hard work and don’t really want to argue against StatsBomb’s presentation here. I’d just want to see more of ‘ballwinner’ Josh than ‘run to the corner flag’ Josh. I think the stats, especially as presented by the good folk over there are promising, and my rating for Josh thus far would be about a 5.5 or 6 out of ten, which isn’t at all bad. It’s promising.

What’s the thing Onomah has improved the most from the start of the season to now? What does he struggle with the most?

I really rate Josh’s ability to pick out a special pass, and he’s gotten a lot better at a first-time pass as well. In our last game against Reading, he came on for a cameo, got himself involved and got the game going again with some fancy work in opening up the final-third. That’s the Josh I want to see, the Josh who gets stuck into the trench battle and runs the show. Not the sideshow he can sometimes become when he’s deployed in an ineffectual position, or when he is pressed. That’s when he will struggle, when a team actually values him as a threat, and will try to press and tackle him.

Josh sees himself as a CM but apart from the U20 World Cup with England we’ve never really seen him get a run out there. From what you’ve seen of him this year, could he play there? Should he play there, or are we just making excuses for why he’s failed?

Josh shouldn’t play ANYWHERE except as a CM. The deeper, the better - in my opinion. The issue is, he’s not going to do that at Villa, because there are three players who are better than him in that position for Villa, and one of them is Jack Grealish. Josh isn’t bad, but he’s going to need to find his level and get some game time as a centre midfielder. That’s unless Tottenham want to deploy him there for a run of games, but that’s not going to happen, is it? Maybe another loan spell at a club that needs a bombarding centre?

Based on everything you’ve seen, do you think Onomah has a future with a Champions League-caliber Tottenham team? And if not, is he a Premier League footballer?

I truly believe Josh will make it. He’s got a good set of tools on him that will enable him to make the grade, but will he get his chance? Will it be at Tottenham? That’s up to you guys. I hope he does, because it would be nice for Villa to have played some small part in his development. As for Champions League, who knows? Look how far people like Dele Alli and Harry Kane have come on. You’ve been there before with players like Josh Onomah and it hasn’t turned out badly, at all? Has it? At the very least, I think he’ll make the grade at a Premier League level - and I hope it’s with one of us. Let’s just see if he kicks on from here, though! At any rate, thanks for letting us have him for the season, as he’s provided a few good memories so far. I just wish it could have been more, but hey - there’s still a few games left down here.
 
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nicdic

Official SC Padre
Admin
May 8, 2005
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Dembele wants a three year contract supposedly, and we're in the market for, or will be, for someone to replace him. If I were Poch I'd give Mousa the three year deal, and tell Josh that the position is his if he can prove he deserves it over the next couple of seasons. Dembele's form and fitness is showing he's still got time, and giving minutes to Josh in this team, in the right position will do wonders for him. He has as a high, if not a higher ceiling than most of the players talked about as a replacement for Dembele, so why not give our kid a chance first.
 
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