Player watch: Josh Onomah

[Johnny J]

Whenever I saw them, it always looked more like a 4141 type format, just a very oddly set up one, with a very attacking AM and a very defensive DM in the 4.

Grealish is an AM, but the scary thing is, so was Sissoko, didn't stop Pochettino playing him as some kind of a CM though, so I have absolutely no confidence that he doesn't see Grealish as some sort of Dembele, dribbling CM replacement.

Poch's notion of "midfield" worries me enormously.

I firmly believe that our often turgid build up play and toothless attack is due to a lack of a playmaker in central midfield who can quickly transition into attack and link up properly with our forwards. A player like Scholes, Pirlo or Modric.

Poch seems to place priority on possession and control. Wanyama, Dembele and (recently, to a lesser extent) Dier do that well, but there's no link with the attack, and the build up is often so ponderous that we waste chances to break, or simply just pass it around slowly and aimlessly, hoping that Kane or Eriksen will pull something out of the bag.

Obviously world class players like those noted above aren't readily obtainable for us, but surely we can can get someone in CM who isn't just power, who can really play.

I'd rather we had a bit less possession, and play one DM with a playmaker CM. Sissoko is an unfair scapegoat, but it's unfathomable to me how he has got starts for us in CM. Even with injuries.

I think Winks is a decent player, but i find it hard to judge objectively, because he's such a breath of fresh air in our midfield. His ability to receive the ball on the half turn and quickly play it forward shouldn't look as revelatory as it seems.

 

[smallsnc]

JO's issue from what I have seen is his lack of effort and attentiveness when we don't have the ball. It is up to Josh to up his work rate and gain Poch's trust. We can't afford a CM that only does have the job. I do think he has loads of talent but understand whey he has not gotten the chances.

 

[yanno]

Whenever I saw them, it always looked more like a 4141 type format, just a very oddly set up one, with a very attacking AM and a very defensive DM in the 4.

Grealish is an AM, but the scary thing is, so was Sissoko, didn't stop Pochettino playing him as some kind of a CM though, so I have absolutely no confidence that he doesn't see Grealish as some sort of Dembele, dribbling CM replacement.

Poch's notion of "midfield" worries me enormously.

Second half of the season, whenever I watched Villa hoping to catch a glimpse of Josh, they were playing a 4-1-4-1.

The deep C/DM was Whelan or Jedinak, and Hourihane was central with Grealish and two wide midfielders, often Adomah & Snodgrass.

Because Grealish has much more technical ability than Hourihane, they usually looked to build attacks through him. But he was starting from more of a CM position than the 10 he was when he first broke through, and showing more defensive awareness than he used to.

I always hoped Bruce would show some cojones and play Onomah next to Grealish centrally, instead of Hourihane. But I don't remember ever seeing this happen.

As for Grealish, he was their best player every time I watched them. He can control the ball with one touch, create a yard of space on the half turn, and pass the ball to a teammate, which makes him a massive upgrade on Sissoko. He is very one-footed, but then so are Lamela and Dembele.

I suspect Poch sees Grealish as an understudy for Eriksen and also wants to develop him as a Dembele replacement, along the lines he allegedly had in mind for Barkley.

I can see @Bus-Conductor shivering in horror. I'm less apprehensive. I think Grealish has more ability on the ball and more vision than any midfielder currently in the England national squad. Dele is obviously a better finisher, Lingard can aimlessly run more marathons, and RLC can glide around without much end product.

Grealish is a boom or bust signing. He will be 23 in September, and will either learn to use his genuine talent for the team under Poch, or spend the rest of his career flashing his calves at defenders who want to maim him. Given Villa's financial situation, I think Levy will get a good deal and if Grealish fails at Spurs, get his money back by flogging him to a midlands club. But he has more chance of being a good signing for us than the likes of Sissoko, Stambouli and the Ns.

Josh has just turned 21. I hope he has a great pre-season, finally starting games in CM, and makes Poch seriously consider him for a squad spot this coming season. If it isn't looking that way, then I hope we pick a better loan for him than a side managed by the likes of Bruce. IIRC Brighton were in for him last season, and a loan to a Chris Hughton team might be very productive at this stage in his career.

 

[Khilari]

I really hope Poch gives him the trust and belief this year, he’s exactly the type of deep midfielder we and England are in need of. The role he played last summer for the under20’s is the role he needs to be playing in now. He’s done what was asked of him by Poch, he went on-loan, he hasn’t moaned, and now he’s back and wants to play for us.

He looks absolutely class and fab in that compilation and if he can perform to that standard in the Premier League, he'll definitely have opportunities to play. And he is young enough to have time to improve and perhaps become a really good player - I hope so.

The problem is however that so far, he hasn't been able to do it. At Villa he wasn't 'good enough' to claim a regular starting berth and some feel he hasn't really got the quality it takes to play for Spurs in the long run. That's not to say he isn't an excellent player - but we are Tottenham, a team aiming to win the Premier League and Champions' League. There's no room for sentiment and only the best players should be playing for us. If Pochettino doesn't feel he can coach Onomah to excellence, you have to say he knows a thing or two about what it takes to cut the mustard.

The Villa fans I know think he's average at the moment and that he doesn't seem to have what it takes to play for a top side like Spurs - Grealish on the other hand they think sparkles when he plays.

Also, whilst he was a standout performer at the U20 WC, playing against your own peer group is massively different to the day to day grind of the football league. These YouTube videos are deceptively summarised... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2YxEb6AdymQ

 

[danielneeds]

He looks absolutely class and fab in that compilation and if he can perform to that standard in the Premier League, he'll definitely have opportunities to play. And he is young enough to have time to improve and perhaps become a really good player - I hope so.

The problem is however that so far, he hasn't been able to do it. At Villa he wasn't 'good enough' to claim a regular starting berth and some feel he hasn't really got the quality it takes to play for Spurs in the long run. That's not to say he isn't an excellent player - but we are Tottenham, a team aiming to win the Premier League and Champions' League. There's no room for sentiment and only the best players should be playing for us. If Pochettino doesn't feel he can coach Onomah to excellence, you have to say he knows a thing or two about what it takes to cut the mustard.

The Villa fans I know think he's average at the moment and that he doesn't seem to have what it takes to play for a top side like Spurs - Grealish on the other hand they think sparkles when he plays.

Also, whilst he was a standout performer at the U20 WC, playing against your own peer group is massively different to the day to day grind of the football league. These YouTube videos are deceptively summarised...

The Villa fans views have to be tempered by the fact that Grealish is “one of their own” and will always get looked on more favourably.

I saw some Villa fans say some very good things about him last season, and then others who didn’t rate him. It’s always hard to tell who are the muppets though.

What’s clear was that Bruce always favoured muscle and experience in the engine room positions.

 

[yanno]

I really hope Poch gives him the trust and belief this year, he’s exactly the type of deep midfielder we and England are in need of. The role he played last summer for the under20’s is the role he needs to be playing in now. He’s done what was asked of him by Poch, he went on-loan, he hasn’t moaned, and now he’s back and wants to play for us.

Yup. I've seen a fair bit of Josh over the years, and remember a great performance when he was 16 or 17 against Barca youth, when we had the likes of Veljkovic in defence, but thanks for posting that video. It sparked the following thoughts.

For those who claim Josh is a bit lazy and doesn't have great work rate, there are some great examples of his ability to burst forward from deep and make unselfish runs for teammates. He also shows excellent touch and awareness.

But most of all it reminded me of the following Poch comments from December 2015:

Asked if he [Josh Onomah] can go on to play for Roy Hodgson's team, having represented the national team at Under 16 to Under 19 level, Pochettino replied: 'Why not? It is impossible to set the limit for him as he is 18 and is very strong. His quality is amazing and he only needs to work hard and then he'll be fine.
'He is a special boy, a special player, because of his talent, his potential and his body. His body is powerful and he has quality in his feet. I don't know how he will develop."

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/fo...ttino-heaps-praise-special-Joshua-Onomah.html

In that video, you see Josh dominating physically against players in his age group. It was always going to take time for him to become powerful enough to hold his own, let alone dominate, in competitive mens' football. But as he matures physically, and puts in the gym work, his natural talent will shine through more strongly.

So, once again, I hope he gets chances in CM in pre-season, and I hope he shows how much ability he has.

 

[mpickard2087]

The Villa fans views have to be tempered by the fact that Grealish is “one of their own” and will always get looked on more favourably.

I saw some Villa fans say some very good things about him last season, and then others who didn’t rate him. It’s always hard to tell who are the muppets though.

What’s clear was that Bruce always favoured muscle and experience in the engine room positions.

Not just in the engine room either, and Onomah wasn't the only one who was a bit of a victim - I think that's a point to make..... I tried to watch a bit of Villa last year and in the early parts of the season it was younger players like Onomah, the winger Green, the big lad up front Davis, who were the only ones showing any bit of spark in a bang average team. Across the park Steve Bruce went to experience and the big money players for the second half of the campaign, when none of these kids really deserved to jettisoned. The football didn't really get any better, and they still failed to get promotion.

 

[DCSPUR]

have a feeling that Josh O will have a good prem career here or at another club but he might not hit prem league starter status for another couple of years.....mostly thinking physically

 

[PerthYid]

Should send him off to Leeds till January, Biesla will instill some off the ball work ethic into him that's for sure !

 

[George94]

If we're looking for a like-for-like Dembele replacement, we have one right under our nose.

He'll get some game time in pre-seaon, with half the squad coming back late due to the World Cup, lets just hope it's in his best position...

 

[coys200]

I did change my opinion about Onomah during the the U20 World Cup and really thought he’d kick on at villa but sadly he didn’t. Grealish may not occupy exact type of areas Onomah would but there’s definitely a cross over. With it also very likely we will buy a high level CM I just fail to see how Onomah is gonna figure. In a double pivot assuming Dembele leaves he’d be fighting with winks Grealish new guy ? With Skipp also coming. And in a single pivot it’s even worse as dele and Eriksen become factors. Personally I’d send him on another loan.

 

[$hoguN]

If we're looking for a like-for-like Dembele replacement, we have one right under our nose.

He'll get some game time in pre-seaon, with half the squad coming back late due to the World Cup, lets just hope it's in his best position...

I like Onomah but he doesn’t have the upper body strength that a Dembele has, which is hugely important

 

[gavspur]

Will be interesting to see where he gets chances now though, considering we have pretty much signed the player that was keeping him out of his preferred position at Villa.

Isn’t his preferred position the deeper player in a midfield three? So for example, playing the Henderson role at the World Cup? We could have a midfield three of JO with Grealish and Winks slightly ahead of him?

Not disagreeing @Trix, genuine question as I’m sure I’ve read or heard that before.

 

[Trix]

Isn’t his preferred position the deeper player in a midfield three? So for example, playing the Henderson role at the World Cup? We could have a midfield three of JO with Grealish and Winks slightly ahead of him?

Not disagreeing @Trix, genuine question as I’m sure I’ve read or heard that before.

It might be, but I doubt Poch will set up without An out and out destroyer regardless of what formation he uses.

 

[gavspur]

It might be, but I doubt Poch will set up without An out and out destroyer regardless of what formation he uses.

That’s where I thin JO can give us something we don’t currently have. For the England Under-20’s, he seemed to be a mobile, forward passing and breaking the lines kind of player. I’d probably best describe it as a midfield sweeper, able to chop and change his passing short or long, or burst past players ala Dembele. While also giving the defence a good interceptor and cover, right in front of them.

It will certainly be interesting to see if Poch is to stick with him and give the lad his backing, Poch’s comments about wanting to have worked with a younger Dembele give me hope that he will help JO. If he does, we have a young guy who can do what Dembele does, but has better forward passing and shooting abilities.

Either way, it’s a player that we all discuss at depth on here, and hope he does well for his and our sakes. ??

 

[Karlinho]

JO's issue from what I have seen is his lack of effort and attentiveness when we don't have the ball. It is up to Josh to up his work rate and gain Poch's trust. We can't afford a CM that only does have the job. I do think he has loads of talent but understand whey he has not gotten the chances.

I think it's possibly more a case of aerobic insufficiencies on his part than it is a lack of effort. He's simply unable or less able to move around that thick, lower body muscularity the way Dembele can.

I hope and pray that this will be the summer he transforms into one having the ability to buzz around like Iniesta or Xavi, but I doubt he ever will be able to with his frame. I think a Chadli like mobility is his energetic upper limit.

 

[spursfan77]

Yup. I've seen a fair bit of Josh over the years, and remember a great performance when he was 16 or 17 against Barca youth, when we had the likes of Veljkovic in defence, but thanks for posting that video. It sparked the following thoughts.

For those who claim Josh is a bit lazy and doesn't have great work rate, there are some great examples of his ability to burst forward from deep and make unselfish runs for teammates. He also shows excellent touch and awareness.

But most of us all it reminded me of the following Poch comments from December 2015:

Asked if he [Josh Onomah] can go on to play for Roy Hodgson's team, having represented the national team at Under 16 to Under 19 level, Pochettino replied: 'Why not? It is impossible to set the limit for him as he is 18 and is very strong. His quality is amazing and he only needs to work hard and then he'll be fine.
'He is a special boy, a special player, because of his talent, his potential and his body. His body is powerful and he has quality in his feet. I don't know how he will develop."

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/fo...ttino-heaps-praise-special-Joshua-Onomah.html

In that video, you see Josh dominating physically against players in his age group. It was always going to take time for him to become powerful enough to hold his own, let alone dominate, in competitive mens' football. But as he matures physically, and puts in the gym work, his natural talent will shine through more strongly.

So, once again, I hope he gets chances in CM in pre-season, and I hope he shows how much ability he has.

I massively agree but Poch hasn’t tried him at CM once yet. He obviously thinks he’s a good player but doesn’t have the faith in him to perform there.

I don’t know what more to say on the player that hasn’t been said in this thread. We all want him to succeed as the majority of us think he’s good enough. But there’s only two people who are going to be able to realise the players potential in the position he should be best in. The player and the manager. If they can’t sit down and work out a way of playing him in his best position then unfortunately maybe his future for him is away from us. If the manager doesn’t trust him then he’s wasting his career with us. I don’t want him to go but it might be best if they can’t come to a conclusion on his role in the side that suits everyone.

 

[faze_coys]

Bruce absolutely loves him, read the quotes about him. That can't be based on his performances alone.

He's either tried to use him sparingly to get any permanent price down or there's been other factors such as injury.

@Breezer mentioned Josh shouldnt have really been playing as much as he did last season as he was playing through an injury to help the squad.

 

[faze_coys]

it was @Hercules actually in the itk thread at the end of may....

Onomah has been carrying an injury for st least 3 months, on and off.

 

[faze_coys]

Really disappointed he isn’t on the tour