What's new

Player watch: Josh Onomah

LexingtonSpurs

Well-Known Member
Aug 27, 2013
13,456
39,042
As @TottenhamMattSpur says, why was he on loan then? Pre-Dembele sale he was behind Sissoko, Dier, Winks, Wanyama, Dembele, Skipp and maybe even Vorm out of position in the central midfield pecking order - he can't suddenly be deemed good enough. It'd only be through sheer tight-shithousery that he would be shoehorned in.
I have no idea. But I disagree with the notion that the only reason to send a player on loan is because the manager does not rate him.
At best, I think you can say the manager does not rate him - yet. But most players go out on loan to grow, mature, and get experience. Josh has been in and around the 1st team for a while - so Poch sees something there.

I agree with many - I have not seen anything to justify Josh's inclusion. But, I am just saying, if Poch sees it - even if out of necessity - then I will back the decision and the player.
 

coy-spurs1882

Well-Known Member
Aug 31, 2012
3,989
10,442
As @TottenhamMattSpur says, why was he on loan then? Pre-Dembele sale he was behind Sissoko, Dier, Winks, Wanyama, Dembele, Skipp and maybe even Vorm out of position in the central midfield pecking order - he can't suddenly be deemed good enough. It'd only be through sheer tight-shithousery that he would be shoehorned in.
he requested a loan for playing time - so as edwards
 

Spurrific

Well-Known Member
Jun 2, 2011
13,501
57,356
he requested a loan for playing time - so as edwards

And has been in-and-out of some truly dog-shit Championship-level 11s. Forced out of position, through no fault of his own I guess, to accommodate some mediocre players. We need to bring a central midfielder in that is ready to make an impact, if Poch thought Onomah was surplus enough to allow him to leave on loan a few months ago, his very infrequent championship appearances simply can’t have been enough to change his mind.
 

yankspurs

Enic Out
Aug 22, 2013
41,883
71,188
And has been in-and-out of some truly dog-shit Championship-level 11s. Forced out of position, through no fault of his own I guess, to accommodate some mediocre players. We need to bring a central midfielder in that is ready to make an impact, if Poch thought Onomah was surplus enough to allow him to leave on loan a few months ago, his very infrequent championship appearances simply can’t have been enough to change his mind.
Onomah was also played out of position here when he did play in the first team.
 

coy-spurs1882

Well-Known Member
Aug 31, 2012
3,989
10,442
And has been in-and-out of some truly dog-shit Championship-level 11s. Forced out of position, through no fault of his own I guess, to accommodate some mediocre players. We need to bring a central midfielder in that is ready to make an impact, if Poch thought Onomah was surplus enough to allow him to leave on loan a few months ago, his very infrequent championship appearances simply can’t have been enough to change his mind.
imo a central midfielder that is ready to make an impact for us is either too pricey for levy or not interested in joining us :unsure::sick:
 

Saoirse

Well-Known Member
Aug 20, 2013
6,143
15,550
We are very, very, very unlikely to be able to bring in a central-midfielder in January who can make an immediate impact. Seldom do players perform to their best in a new team straight away, let alone in a Poch side which demands so much of them. A panic buy is the last thing we need - we need to be bringing players into the senior squad who could work for us long-term, whether those are youth or transfer. And for now we need to cope with what we have, which may well include Onomah who's at least used to the squad and to an extent our style of play.
 

TottenhamMattSpur

Well-Known Member
Aug 31, 2012
10,925
16,007
He's done less in a Spurs shirt an Soldado. He hasn't done anything on loan with lower league teams.

Get over it. Not every kid from our academy will be the next big thing.
 

Primativ

Well-Known Member
Aug 9, 2017
3,229
12,486
People are deluded if they think this kid will ever be good enough.

He's never ever performed when given a chance in the Spurs team and out on loan he struggles to get regular game times for crap teams in the Championship.

If we have to recall him because we are that screwed in CM, it's a disgrace and Levy has a lot to answer for.
 

EQP

EQP
Sep 1, 2013
7,958
29,657
I have no idea. But I disagree with the notion that the only reason to send a player on loan is because the manager does not rate him.
At best, I think you can say the manager does not rate him - yet. But most players go out on loan to grow, mature, and get experience. Josh has been in and around the 1st team for a while - so Poch sees something there.

I agree with many - I have not seen anything to justify Josh's inclusion. But, I am just saying, if Poch sees it - even if out of necessity - then I will back the decision and the player.

Well said!

I actually think the loans have been vital education to help develop Onomah other parts of his game. Neither Villa or Wednesday play similar football to us, so it was always going to be a struggle at times for Josh to find his way. Which I believe was the point of the loans. Several weeks back, we saw the ex Sheff Wed coach put out some unfair comments to the media about Onomah's 1st game back from injury. How does Onomah react to that? He puts on an even better display in the next game and I believe would have even received the MOTM award (according to Sheff Wed fans) in Sheff Wed last game if hadn't got injured.

There are tangible bits that we reference to define how well a player is doing such as goals, assists, tackles etc but the other the intangible parts that we can't fully measure but need to be challenged and developed such as reaction adversity/criticism, mentality etc should also be considered when trying to determine if a player has shown growth.
 

mpickard2087

Patient Zero
Jun 13, 2008
21,886
32,513
People are deluded if they think this kid will ever be good enough.

He's never ever performed when given a chance in the Spurs team and out on loan he struggles to get regular game times for crap teams in the Championship.

If we have to recall him because we are that screwed in CM, it's a disgrace and Levy has a lot to answer for.

I think that's a bit harsh. If he gets recalled and gets another chance then he's got to improve substantially with certain aspects of his game, but we've seen in the last few years people like Kane, Rose, Mason, Livermore etc. who bounced around the Football League on various loans, doing little of note, and it suddenly clicked. We even have an example this season with Sissoko, who suddenly found some confidence and rhythm and how to contribute something to the team. All got the same comments and were written off.

What I'm trying to say is I don't really understand how fans get so worked up, "this is a disgrace" blah blah blah. We're getting hammered by injuries at the moment and will have to ride it out for a few weeks (though there is more than enough talent in the squad that I still fully expect us to be extremely competitive in every match we play), we're going to be forced into trying some things out and putting faith in certain individuals (Onomah, or whoever) to step up. It might happen, it might not, who knows......
 
Last edited:

Primativ

Well-Known Member
Aug 9, 2017
3,229
12,486
I think that's a bit harsh. If he gets recalled and gets another chance then he's got to improve substantially with certain aspects of his game, but we've seen in the last few years people like Kane, Rose, Mason etc. who bounced around the Football League on various loans, doing little of note, and it suddenly clicked. We even have an example this season with Sissoko, who suddenly found some confidence and rhythm and how to contribute something to the team. All got the same comments and were written off.

What I'm trying to say is I don't really understand how fans get so worked up, "this is a disgrace" blah blah blah. We're getting hammered by injuries at the moment and will have to ride it out for a few weeks (though there is more than enough talent in the squad that I still fully expect us to be extremely competitive in every match we play), we're going to be forced into trying some things out and putting faith in certain individuals (Onomah, or whoever) to step up. It might happen, it might not, who knows......

The reason I say it is a disgrace, is because we failed to sign a single CM in the summer, so this "mess" is not a surprise, and is entirely of Levy's own doing. In fact, the funny thing is, we aren't even being hammered by Injuries in CM. Wanyama has been injured for nearly two years now, we knew that last summer. Dier had a freak injury but has been fit most of the season. We've sold Dembele but everyone knew he had fitness issues too so we knew he wouldn't bve available for most games. Sissoko picked up an injury because he wan ran into the ground precisely because we didn't sign anyone to allow Sissoko to have a rest, AND LASTLY...Sissoko wasn't even supposed to be a regular CM for us this season, most people wanted him sold.

We only have two injuries in CM (Sissoko and Dier) and that is all it takes for us to have to call up academy kids who aren't good enough, to sustain a challenge on 4 fronts.

If it's not a disgrace, I'd like to know what we should call it? Gross Negligence? Incompetence?
 

LexingtonSpurs

Well-Known Member
Aug 27, 2013
13,456
39,042
The reason I say it is a disgrace, is because we failed to sign a single CM in the summer, so this "mess" is not a surprise,
Stop.

It would have been great to sign anyone this summer. But, when we started the season, we had: Dier, Wanyama, Dembele, Winks, Sissoko, and Skipp was training with the first team. While it was certainly plausible that these players would get injured during the course of the season - it would be unrealisitc to anticipate that Dier, Wanyama, Dembele, and Sissoko would all miss time at the same time.

And, we tried to move Dembele last summer, which would have opened spot for a non-HG player - but we could not get the deal done. We were never going to add a 7th Cm to the mix - particulalry when Dele and/or Eriksen could expect to fill in for a short-term issue.

The injury crisis we are in now - has nothing to do with a failure to spend last summer. By that argument - any player we brought in might also have been injured right now...
 

allpaths

Well-Known Member
Oct 31, 2014
3,174
8,381
People are falling into the same fallacies that made them think Kane could never make it at this level after a few bad loans. It's hard for a young player to look good when he's surrounded by absolute garbage.

Secondly, Onomah is an immensely talented player physically and technically. Mentally and tactically he is raw. It's a matter of experience and maturing with the hope one day it just clicks for him. There is no guarantee that's going to happen, but it's not so improbable as people think.
 

mpickard2087

Patient Zero
Jun 13, 2008
21,886
32,513
The reason I say it is a disgrace, is because we failed to sign a single CM in the summer, so this "mess" is not a surprise, and is entirely of Levy's own doing. In fact, the funny thing is, we aren't even being hammered by Injuries in CM. Wanyama has been injured for nearly two years now, we knew that last summer. Dier had a freak injury but has been fit most of the season. We've sold Dembele but everyone knew he had fitness issues too so we knew he wouldn't bve available for most games. Sissoko picked up an injury because he wan ran into the ground precisely because we didn't sign anyone to allow Sissoko to have a rest, AND LASTLY...Sissoko wasn't even supposed to be a regular CM for us this season, most people wanted him sold.

We only have two injuries in CM (Sissoko and Dier) and that is all it takes for us to have to call up academy kids who aren't good enough, to sustain a challenge on 4 fronts.

If it's not a disgrace, I'd like to know what we should call it? Gross Negligence? Incompetence?

I did a post on this the other day about squad depth.

Dembele we know had his issues, wouldn't play every game, but was usually at least around for the most part of the season. Wanyama was back at the start of the season, and not yet written off as a crock. Winks and Dier are two of Poch's golden boys so were obviously integral to his plans. Sissoko was kept, bigged up, and so obviously in his plans. So we're at five players for what is usually a cm2.

After that we had Amos and Skipp. Two academy kids who everyone seemed pleasantly surprised by in pre-season. Is it outrageous to make them 6th/7th choice for those spots? I haven't even mentioned Alli and Eriksen, who can (and have) dropped in there.

People can dislike the options available, and all of us would make changes to the squad based on our own preferences, but here and in other threads to say we have/had no depth at all isn't true.

To have Dembele, Wanyama, Dier (and Amos), as well as the likes of Lamela, Moura, and now Son and Kane and possibly Sissoko, all missing at the same time is just bad luck.

Personally though I am not despairing, the way I see football this is actually the point where I become most interested. How as a team will we cope with it - will we juggle the pack and tactically switch? will someone make a positional switch? will someone under the surface step up and make a name for himself? This is where people earn their corn. I'm waiting to find out. We might lose games, but I don't fear that - I've seen us lose plenty and as of yet ultimately not get over the line with the golden boys, after all........
 

spursfan77

Well-Known Member
Aug 13, 2005
46,680
104,956
Would like to see him called back and given a run with the first team training. Maybe seeing someone younger in Skipp getting a go ahead of him would get him to focus his mind and live up to his undoubted potential.
 

JayB

Well-Known Member
Aug 24, 2011
6,652
26,046
The reason I say it is a disgrace, is because we failed to sign a single CM in the summer, so this "mess" is not a surprise, and is entirely of Levy's own doing. In fact, the funny thing is, we aren't even being hammered by Injuries in CM. Wanyama has been injured for nearly two years now, we knew that last summer. Dier had a freak injury but has been fit most of the season. We've sold Dembele but everyone knew he had fitness issues too so we knew he wouldn't bve available for most games. Sissoko picked up an injury because he wan ran into the ground precisely because we didn't sign anyone to allow Sissoko to have a rest, AND LASTLY...Sissoko wasn't even supposed to be a regular CM for us this season, most people wanted him sold.

We only have two injuries in CM (Sissoko and Dier) and that is all it takes for us to have to call up academy kids who aren't good enough, to sustain a challenge on 4 fronts.

If it's not a disgrace, I'd like to know what we should call it? Gross Negligence? Incompetence?
While I agree that our CM recruitment has been an absolute disgrace, we shouldn't allow that to bias us against Onomah. @mpickard2087 is absolutely right that we've had a number of academy products "fail" while out on loan only to go onto be contributors at the Premier League level. Onomah clearly has talent even if it hasn't quite "clicked" for him yet, so we shouldn't be so harsh as to prejudge how he might be able to contribute to the squad if he can find his feet and gain some rhythm and confidence.

The 4-4-2 diamond setup is essentially a CM3 with a No. 10 in front of it, which would at least theoretically seem to potentially paper over the cracks of Onomah's poor work off the ball. We're fairly well stocked at the No. 8 position anyway, with Winks, Sissoko, Dele, and Eriksen all capable of slotting in there, so it's hardly like we would be completely dependent on a revolution in Onomah's form in order to compete over the second half of the season. It's really the base of the diamond where we're lacking sufficient options IMO.
 

coys200

Well-Known Member
May 22, 2017
8,436
17,403
Ultimately he is our player if we are light on CM bodies come January 31st then he should stay. He’s certainly competent enough to come on in last 20 minutes if we are 3-0 up and give someone a rest. I believe the talent is there but he does him self no favours with his application. But after Sissoko I’m not prepared to right anyone off especially as josh technical ability is way above Sissoko. You almost just wanna shake him and say come on wake up this may be your last chance.
 

mckenz

Well-Known Member
Jan 27, 2011
967
2,355
I think the important thing here is that Poch rated Sissoko before anybody here did. In the summer Onomah's playing time would always be limited by the amount of time that Poch was planning to give Sissoko. Dier and Winks would have been in plan and I imagine both Dembele and Victor were being monitored for fitness with the hope that one of them would be able to come back to cover. That would leave Onomah with little playing time hence the loan.

As we have a near perfect storm of Dier getting appendicitis, both Victor and Dembele not coming back to anywhere near match fitness and then Sissoko getting injured this does leave Onomah with an opportunity to prove himself - It's up to him to prove himself
 

Coyboy

The Double of 1961 is still The Double
Dec 3, 2004
15,506
5,032
It genuinely never ceases to amaze me the amount of misplaced certitude and deluded arrogance of some fans stretching the truth and masquerading supposition as fact to make a point:

  • “No one believed Sissoko was good enough and wasn’t supposed to start”. Really? Who? Anonymous amateurs on a football forum? Ok. More likely reality: He played a hell of lot of football last year and was often praised by players and Poch. What is more likely is that we are seeing this season are the fruits of his hard work on the training ground.
  • “Wanyama has been injured for two years and his career is over”. So how did he manage to play almost every game in 2016/17 or score a wonder goal this time last year. More likely reality: Wanyama has had injury problems off and on since August 2017 and the club has been working with him to rehabilitate as he is still in his 20s and there is no reason why he can’t recover unless posters get more physiotherapy knowledge from TV than professional physios and Doctors working with him.
  • “Dembele has been unable to play and we knew he was crocked”. Again, did we? He has played 9 times this year and what is as likely is that the club was trying to manage him threw the injuries and get some use out of him this year to see if he improved. He didn’t. So we sold him. He’s a unique player anyway and we won’t probably won't have one like him again and so we were trying to bring through Skipp and Amos (doing the very thing Poch has been criticised by other-maybe not the same- posters for not doing)
  • (Personal favourite) “Sissoko’s injury is a result of him playing too much and getting injured”. Is it? And people now that how? Anyone can get injured by pulling a muscle. Toby did last year 2 months into the season against Madrid. Rose did one week ago against Chelsea. What next? Dier’s appendicitis was a result of the stress of us not having depth in the squad.

People have yet to say “he was the attainable player we should have signed, we could have gone for him and got him”- precisely because there just aren’t many players out there who would have improved us and wereattainable. If we had signed one centre mid and if he had been good enough and gelled into the team and if he was fit now, I don’t think we would suddenly be in a much better position. The same is true of Kane- I have yet to see someone we could have got who would have slotted in to replace him now better than the raft of attacking mids we have and Llorente. I am actually quite looking forward to seeing us play on Sunday as we often play with a bit more fluidity without Kane, even though missing the pace of Son and Moura (albeit not for long hopefully) is a short term blow.

On topic, if we get JO back then it's an exciting chance for him.
 
Top