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Player watch: Josh Onomah

EQP

EQP
Sep 1, 2013
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1) Turned down City
2) Put together some good performances while on loan


Blaming uninspiring coaches for his poor performances is subjective as well, can you see why some of that could be red rag to a bull?

Turned down City : If you ever frequent the youth thread, you can ask any of the experts in there. At some point, year or two (or three) back, City attempted to sign Onomah. Couple links below citing interest. If you dismiss the links (given the nature of the source) and the information that the youth experts give in those threads, not much else I can do to convince you that he turned them down.

https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/foot...ams-liverpool-chelsea-transfer-target-6110497
https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/transfer-news/manchester-city-keeping-tabs-spurs-5946983

Also, I don't have the Poch's book close to me but there is a page or two alluding to a deal of this nature that would have gone through if we didn't convince the player to stay ( this page lines up with the timeline of when these Onomah to City reports started appeared). I'll do my best to scan the page in question when I get done with work.


2) Put together some good performances while on loan

Now I don't imagine you watched Villa or Sheff Wed, I actually endured most of Villa's games when Josh was playing for them ( I live in the States and I'm big fan of Huddlestone, I have a EFL championship sports package that I got to watch Derby play). Josh had some good games but suffered from getting shifted to CF and then AM and LW due to injuries to other key players and Steve Bruce trying to force him into the team as anything as a CM. Is that Josh's fault he wasn't able to make the CM position his? Possibly, he did at times walk around lazily but that languid approach is seemingly his style. Bruce probably wanted this all relentless all-action box to box CM and hoped Onomah would fill that void, wasn't the case (though he did have some good runs from deep). Still Onomah, managed to score 4 goals and 3 assists and put together some good games IMO.

For Sheff Wed games ( i've only seen 3 to 4 games with Josh playing) i'm mainly going by what the forums and twitter are saying, which is a mixed bag and probably supports your POV that he's been terrible for them.

Was I blaming the coaches for his less than stellar performances? Not really. I made a claim that Bruce and Jos luhukay play uninspiring football and you'd be hard pressed to find Villa or Sheffield fan ( and soon Sheffield fans will get to see a Bruce team in action) who would argue against that statement.
 

Primativ

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Aug 9, 2017
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People are falling into the same fallacies that made them think Kane could never make it at this level after a few bad loans. It's hard for a young player to look good when he's surrounded by absolute garbage.

Secondly, Onomah is an immensely talented player physically and technically. Mentally and tactically he is raw. It's a matter of experience and maturing with the hope one day it just clicks for him. There is no guarantee that's going to happen, but it's not so improbable as people think.

Oh for heavens sake! Firstly Kane didn’t have bad loan spells, he got injured but he banged them in fairly regularly and always knew where the goal was in the lower leagues. And frankly, comparing Onomah to literally the best striker in the world is just absurd. Just because Kane went out on loan and then came back to Spurs and became a world beater, it doesn’t mean every other kid will. In fact, there probably won’t be another one like that for another 25 years.

Calling Onomah immensely talented is just hyperbole. He’s nothing of the sort. He’s a promising young player but he failed to take his chances at Spurs and the fact that Poch shipped him out on loan should tell you he isn’t very rated. I don’t see any way back for him at Spurs.
 

Primativ

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Aug 9, 2017
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While I agree that our CM recruitment has been an absolute disgrace, we shouldn't allow that to bias us against Onomah. @mpickard2087 is absolutely right that we've had a number of academy products "fail" while out on loan only to go onto be contributors at the Premier League level. Onomah clearly has talent even if it hasn't quite "clicked" for him yet, so we shouldn't be so harsh as to prejudge how he might be able to contribute to the squad if he can find his feet and gain some rhythm and confidence.

The 4-4-2 diamond setup is essentially a CM3 with a No. 10 in front of it, which would at least theoretically seem to potentially paper over the cracks of Onomah's poor work off the ball. We're fairly well stocked at the No. 8 position anyway, with Winks, Sissoko, Dele, and Eriksen all capable of slotting in there, so it's hardly like we would be completely dependent on a revolution in Onomah's form in order to compete over the second half of the season. It's really the base of the diamond where we're lacking sufficient options IMO.

I don’t disagree that Onomah has some talent but the exact remains he’s only ever displayed this talent at junior levels. In senior football he has been found wanting big time. I was championing the kid hugely and was so excited to see him breakthrough but to say he was a let down would be understatement. He was shocking. So so poor. Rabbit in headlights. It want just once either, he was shocking every time he played for us, and he’s still struggling to make an impact in lower leagues so I have to question where the optimism is coming from?

If Poch wanted to keep the likes of Amos and Skipp around the first team, but wanted to ship Onomah out on loan, it should be a clear signal that the guy isn’t really in Poch’s plans.
 

SpursD22

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Aug 3, 2017
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Oh for heavens sake! Firstly Kane didn’t have bad loan spells, he got injured but he banged them in fairly regularly and always knew where the goal was in the lower leagues. And frankly, comparing Onomah to literally the best striker in the world is just absurd. Just because Kane went out on loan and then came back to Spurs and became a world beater, it doesn’t mean every other kid will. In fact, there probably won’t be another one like that for another 25 years.

Calling Onomah immensely talented is just hyperbole. He’s nothing of the sort. He’s a promising young player but he failed to take his chances at Spurs and the fact that Poch shipped him out on loan should tell you he isn’t very rated. I don’t see any way back for him at Spurs.

With this attitude we might as well just sell all academy players, why even have a academy then?
How can you possibly say he’s not immensely talented when he’s been a key part of England winning the U17 Euros and U20 World Cup
If we was linked with a midfielder who’s won those trophies we would’ve said that he’s a world class talent

This is what I don’t understand with England as a country, you massively underappreciate anything that’s yours

Even at his loan at Aston Villa, this summer when we were linked with Grealish most people wanted him but Onomah had better stats than him, and even this season what has Grealish done? But I’m not seeing Aston Villa fans get on to him

I’m not saying Onomah will be a star or that we should recall him but if we did it wouldn’t be a bad decision
 

SpursDave88

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Aug 31, 2012
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I don’t disagree that Onomah has some talent but the exact remains he’s only ever displayed this talent at junior levels. In senior football he has been found wanting big time. I was championing the kid hugely and was so excited to see him breakthrough but to say he was a let down would be understatement. He was shocking. So so poor. Rabbit in headlights. It want just once either, he was shocking every time he played for us, and he’s still struggling to make an impact in lower leagues so I have to question where the optimism is coming from?

If Poch wanted to keep the likes of Amos and Skipp around the first team, but wanted to ship Onomah out on loan, it should be a clear signal that the guy isn’t really in Poch’s plans.

Would love him to do well...but thus far he hasn't even got close to what Livermore, Mason or Bentaleb for the first team. Let alone Winks or Skipp.

There isn't a single person who supports Spurs who wouldn't absolutely love for one of our boys to come in and tear it up. Thus far though he hasn't managed it for Spurs and he can't seem to get picked in the championship.

We should probably recall him anyway to see if he benefits from training with the senior squad. The Championship loans are clearly not working.
 

SpursDave88

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Aug 31, 2012
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With this attitude we might as well just sell all academy players, why even have a academy then?
How can you possibly say he’s not immensely talented when he’s been a key part of England winning the U17 Euros and U20 World Cup
If we was linked with a midfielder who’s won those trophies we would’ve said that he’s a world class talent

This is what I don’t understand with England as a country, you massively underappreciate anything that’s yours

Even at his loan at Aston Villa, this summer when we were linked with Grealish most people wanted him but Onomah had better stats than him, and even this season what has Grealish done? But I’m not seeing Aston Villa fans get on to him

I’m not saying Onomah will be a star or that we should recall him but if we did it wouldn’t be a bad decision

Most people did not want Jack Grealish.

Also last year Grealish was a key player for Villa....Onomah was not.
 

SpursD22

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Aug 3, 2017
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Most people did not want Jack Grealish.

Also last year Grealish was a key player for Villa....Onomah was not.

Many people wanted Grealish, not as the only signing obviously and possibly because people was desperate for a signing
And no I wouldn’t say he was a key player for them, he had good moments and some important moments but the season overall he wasn’t a key player imo
 

Primativ

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Aug 9, 2017
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Many people wanted Grealish, not as the only signing obviously and possibly because people was desperate for a signing
And no I wouldn’t say he was a key player for them, he had good moments and some important moments but the season overall he wasn’t a key player imo

What are you talking about? Grealish is absolutely a key player for Villa and was last season.

With this attitude we might as well just sell all academy players, why even have a academy then?
How can you possibly say he’s not immensely talented when he’s been a key part of England winning the U17 Euros and U20 World Cup
If we was linked with a midfielder who’s won those trophies we would’ve said that he’s a world class talent

This is what I don’t understand with England as a country, you massively underappreciate anything that’s yours

Even at his loan at Aston Villa, this summer when we were linked with Grealish most people wanted him but Onomah had better stats than him, and even this season what has Grealish done? But I’m not seeing Aston Villa fans get on to him

I’m not saying Onomah will be a star or that we should recall him but if we did it wouldn’t be a bad decision

A world class talent because he won the u17 euros and U20 World Cup? Oh please.
 

SpursD22

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Aug 3, 2017
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What are you talking about? Grealish is absolutely a key player for Villa and was last season.



A world class talent because he won the u17 euros and U20 World Cup? Oh please.

I didn’t say he was a world class talent I said if we bought someone who’d done what Onomah done for England we would’ve say that player is a world class talent
 

beats1

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Feb 22, 2010
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Oh for heavens sake! Firstly Kane didn’t have bad loan spells, he got injured but he banged them in fairly regularly and always knew where the goal was in the lower leagues. And frankly, comparing Onomah to literally the best striker in the world is just absurd. Just because Kane went out on loan and then came back to Spurs and became a world beater, it doesn’t mean every other kid will. In fact, there probably won’t be another one like that for another 25 years.

Calling Onomah immensely talented is just hyperbole. He’s nothing of the sort. He’s a promising young player but he failed to take his chances at Spurs and the fact that Poch shipped him out on loan should tell you he isn’t very rated. I don’t see any way back for him at Spurs.
He wasn't injured at leicester and was terrible. He was their 4th choice striker behind woods, nugent and vardy. The only way he could play in Peasons system was a left winger.

Kane was fucking shit at Left wing
 

Flashspur

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Jul 28, 2012
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Onomah may have another chance but he is injured again so will have to wait his turn. Poch was asked if he might consider cutting the loan and he said 'considering' or words to that effect.
 

Spurs_Bear

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Jan 7, 2009
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Turned down City : If you ever frequent the youth thread, you can ask any of the experts in there. At some point, year or two (or three) back, City attempted to sign Onomah. Couple links below citing interest. If you dismiss the links (given the nature of the source) and the information that the youth experts give in those threads, not much else I can do to convince you that he turned them down.

https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/foot...ams-liverpool-chelsea-transfer-target-6110497
https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/transfer-news/manchester-city-keeping-tabs-spurs-5946983

Also, I don't have the Poch's book close to me but there is a page or two alluding to a deal of this nature that would have gone through if we didn't convince the player to stay ( this page lines up with the timeline of when these Onomah to City reports started appeared). I'll do my best to scan the page in question when I get done with work.


2) Put together some good performances while on loan

Now I don't imagine you watched Villa or Sheff Wed, I actually endured most of Villa's games when Josh was playing for them ( I live in the States and I'm big fan of Huddlestone, I have a EFL championship sports package that I got to watch Derby play). Josh had some good games but suffered from getting shifted to CF and then AM and LW due to injuries to other key players and Steve Bruce trying to force him into the team as anything as a CM. Is that Josh's fault he wasn't able to make the CM position his? Possibly, he did at times walk around lazily but that languid approach is seemingly his style. Bruce probably wanted this all relentless all-action box to box CM and hoped Onomah would fill that void, wasn't the case (though he did have some good runs from deep). Still Onomah, managed to score 4 goals and 3 assists and put together some good games IMO.

For Sheff Wed games ( i've only seen 3 to 4 games with Josh playing) i'm mainly going by what the forums and twitter are saying, which is a mixed bag and probably supports your POV that he's been terrible for them.

Was I blaming the coaches for his less than stellar performances? Not really. I made a claim that Bruce and Jos luhukay play uninspiring football and you'd be hard pressed to find Villa or Sheffield fan ( and soon Sheffield fans will get to see a Bruce team in action) who would argue against that statement.

A good post and nicely put, but still opinion and no facts. And if you lived in the UK, you wouldn’t use the Mirror as any sort of proof, ever.

I don’t care who the experts were in the youth thread, until there is cast iron proof about City then sorry but it’s not true. If it’s BC and Windy you are hanging your hat on then statistically only 50% of that collection are experts. Most of them are banned now.

And while subjective, the majority of his performances in the Championship have been very poor. There isn’t really an argument for that, luckily we get to watch as many (or unluckily) Championship stuff as you do, I saw more than my share of Villa stuff, Sheffield Wednesday not so much so I’ve had to go on what I’ve read.

On what we’ve seen and know so far, I’m not concerned we’re losing anyone of quality, and there’s very little to prove otherwise.
 

nicdic

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I for one would love for Onomah to be recalled from loan and achieve his potential with us.
 

panoma

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Jan 16, 2012
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Kane looked great at Norwich before he got injured. Not adding much to the discussion, but it's just not right saying he only had poor loan spells (it was a very short loan though).

Also having Onomah back surely is better than no one (as is the likely alternative). Even if it's to fill the numbers in training/bench.
 
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Dharmabum

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Aug 16, 2003
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With this attitude we might as well just sell all academy players, why even have a academy then?
How can you possibly say he’s not immensely talented when he’s been a key part of England winning the U17 Euros and U20 World Cup
If we was linked with a midfielder who’s won those trophies we would’ve said that he’s a world class talent

This is what I don’t understand with England as a country, you massively underappreciate anything that’s yours

Even at his loan at Aston Villa, this summer when we were linked with Grealish most people wanted him but Onomah had better stats than him, and even this season what has Grealish done? But I’m not seeing Aston Villa fans get on to him

I’m not saying Onomah will be a star or that we should recall him but if we did it wouldn’t be a bad decision

Have you seen the squads of those countries who've won the various U17 Euros and u17/19/20/21 World cups? Most of the players of those squads in fact never "make it" big (or even "semi big") - and that includes many of the players voted best this and that in those tournaments.
Among the players listed below in the England U-20 WC winning squad would you consider "world class" talent? And how many of them would you consider buying for Spurs?

https://www.skysports.com/football/...e-englands-world-cup-stars-u20-squad-profiled
 

Blake Griffin

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Oct 3, 2011
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Kane looked great at Norwich before he got injured. Not adding much to the discussion, but it's just not right saying he only had poor loan spells.

Also having Onomah back surely is better than no one (as is the likely alternative). Even if it's to fill the numbers in training/bench.

he only made five appearances for them, no goals. their fans said he was a useless donkey(typical fan nonsense but i remember it well), he missed a sitter in one game and it all stemmed from that. he then drops back down to the championship and has another poor loan with leicester. "if he can't get in a crap leicester team with david nugent up front then he'll obviously never make it here" was the common cry from a lot of our fans, though i'm sure they'll all conveniently now tell you that they always knew kane would make it.

was much the same story with danny rose, three failed championship loans(worse than onomah's) and even at 23 the overwhelming majority of our fan base were adamant that he was a terrible player with a terrible attitude. i'm not saying these two examples mean that onomah will therefore go the same way but you'd think fans would learn to stop jumping the gun on our young players so quickly.
 

Spurs_Bear

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Jan 7, 2009
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@Blake Griffin makes a good point about the loans, not a good comparison between Kane/Onomah at all, different ages/stages of their lives. One had a defined position (didn’t always play there) and the other one doesn’t at the moment.
 

nicdic

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@Blake Griffin makes a good point about the loans, not a good comparison between Kane/Onomah at all, different ages/stages of their lives. One had a defined position (didn’t always play there) and the other one doesn’t at the moment.
Onomah does have a defined position. He's a cm, he just almost never gets played there at first team club level.
 

Spurs_Bear

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Onomah does have a defined position. He's a cm, he just almost never gets played there at first team club level.

Which sort of confirms he doesn’t have a defined position. Ryan Mason could be viewed as having a similar issue from youth level to senior football.
 

blackburn

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Aug 31, 2012
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Really don't get this obsession with Onomah. There's nothing better than seeing a lad come through the ranks but we have to be realistic, none of the professional coaches that work with him every day are prepared to play him in what is referred to as his "preferred position".

I'm sorry but if anybody thinks he's up to playing CM in a team that's challenging for the league and champions league they're deluded.
 
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