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Player Watch Player Watch - Lucas Moura

MelbYid

Active Member
Jun 8, 2018
44
203
I don't know anything about Brazilian politics, government, or much about the culture.

I am not going to sit here and be a keyboard warrior and pontificate about complex issues as though they are binary conditions.

What I have seen from Lucas is someone who seems well-grounded in his faith, and appears to be a decent human. If his political views are different from mine, I suspect it is because our world-views have been shaped by vastly different life experiences. I am ok with that.
his views aren't just 'different' though - he's endorsing someone who believes women shouldnt get equal pay, brazilian descendants of slaves "arent fit for breeding", publicly supported a brazilian neo-nazi called Marco Antonio, called refugees "scum of the earth", repeatedly commends the Brazilian military dictatorship and its use of torture, said he would rather his son die than be gay, said gay parents use their kids as sex slaves, and in the 80s planned to bomb a crucial water pipeline in Rio to starve the people out of bringing on democratic reforms. Lucas endorsing this guy to hundreds of thousands of followers isn't just a regular difference in opinion, its endorsing an authoritarian and bigoted would-be terrorist for office - that's not something we should just ok because hes a good player imo
 

TheHoddleWaddle

Well-Known Member
Dec 13, 2013
11,289
20,289
What he actually said, wasn't out and out support of a political loony. It was pointing out that not everything the politician said was the same.old sound-bytes that others have come.out with. He agreed with certain parts, like shooting criminals and argued that there was no actual proof he was a racist or he'd be in prison.

It's not the same thing as what is being portrayed.

Anyway, good player that Lucas. Keeps.himself to himself.....
 

nicdic

Official SC Padre
Admin
May 8, 2005
41,857
25,919
his views aren't just 'different' though - he's endorsing someone who believes women shouldnt get equal pay, brazilian descendants of slaves "arent fit for breeding", publicly supported a brazilian neo-nazi called Marco Antonio, called refugees "scum of the earth", repeatedly commends the Brazilian military dictatorship and its use of torture, said he would rather his son die than be gay, said gay parents use their kids as sex slaves, and in the 80s planned to bomb a crucial water pipeline in Rio to starve the people out of bringing on democratic reforms. Lucas endorsing this guy to hundreds of thousands of followers isn't just a regular difference in opinion, its endorsing an authoritarian and bigoted would-be terrorist for office - that's not something we should just ok because hes a good player imo
How many when voting for a political party or leader do so because they agree wholeheartedly with every single view of the leader or the party? I'd wager it's a pretty small minority.
 

wrd

Well-Known Member
Aug 22, 2014
13,603
58,005
How many when voting for a political party or leader do so because they agree wholeheartedly with every single view of the leader or the party? I'd wager it's a pretty small minority.

Sometimes people want change even if it means getting worse before it gets better also.
 

ilikeost

Well-Known Member
Jul 17, 2012
5,382
12,072
Perhaps I didn't articulate myself too well. No need for theatrics dear sir. I was trying to say, (there's no evidence Moura is a fascist sympathizer) that your wanting someone out based on their views, is a fairly fascist approach....? It's ok for you to think in your way, but not for others to have their own thoughts and opinions on a subject? You'd have someone leave because their views don't correlate to yours?

Oh, you are one of those people that argue dishonestly. I get it. I've talked about fascism, nothing else. So don't come at me with such dishonest crap like "you want to remove anyone you don't agree with". And drop the "sir" shit.

I think his tweets are far then enough evidence to suggest that he sympathizes with Bolsonaro (making him a fascist sympathizer). He argues for basically militarizing the cops so they can go in and kill all the criminals and describes Bolsonaro like one honest man out of thousands of corrupt politicians.

Has moura hurt anyone? Has he created some hitlerite movement in Brazil that will kill anyone in a favella? All he's done is express a view. So yes, as long as he is a footballer and not a politician likely to be elected. Then who cares?

He is supporting a person that will on his platform with 2.9m followers. That is why I care.

But enough of this crap. Nothing we do or say will change anyhting.
 

TheHoddleWaddle

Well-Known Member
Dec 13, 2013
11,289
20,289
Oh, you are one of those people that argue dishonestly. I get it. I've talked about fascism, nothing else. So don't come at me with such dishonest crap like "you want to remove anyone you don't agree with". And drop the "sir" shit.

I think his tweets are far then enough evidence to suggest that he sympathizes with Bolsonaro (making him a fascist sympathizer). He argues for basically militarizing the cops so they can go in and kill all the criminals and describes Bolsonaro like one honest man out of thousands of corrupt politicians.



He is supporting a person that will on his platform with 2.9m followers. That is why I care.

But enough of this crap. Nothing we do or say will change anyhting.

Look dude, its not my style.to insult or cause grief. If ive caused you a hernia at the desk top accept my apologies.

But the point is, he hasn't supported fascism. He's made a comment that agrees with elements of a political leader. Albeit with dubious connotations, in comparison to the corrupt leaders of other parties with a backdrop of people living in fear of crime. It isn't black and white, he's a 'fascist burn him!'. At no point have I seen anything to suggest supports the leader completely or that he harbours those.views himself.

Read what he said. You don't have to agree, but it doesn't make Lucas a fascist sympathizer.

So when you say you want him out the club, because he happens to agree with something you don't....? Well, where do you draw that line on what's ok for me Ilikeost?

He s coming from a different view point entirely from you (assuming you aren't from.Brazil) . Anyway.

Have a good one. Enjoyable discussion.
 

ilikeost

Well-Known Member
Jul 17, 2012
5,382
12,072
Look dude, its not my style.to insult or cause grief. If ive caused you a hernia at the desk top accept my apologies.

So I guess that is why you try to belittle me by suggesting you've made me upset? I think it might be your style. Nothing wrong with that though in my opinion, just own it.

But the point is, he hasn't supported fascism.

In your opinion, I think he has.

So when you say you want him out the club, because he happens to agree with something you don't....? Well, where do you draw that line on what's ok for me Ilikeost?

This question takes for granted that I accept your opinion on if he is a fascist sympathizer or not. I don't accept your opinion so the question is pointless. And so is this discussion so...
 

TheAwsPhil

New Member
Jun 7, 2018
28
102
So I guess that is why you try to belittle me by suggesting you've made me upset? I think it might be your style. Nothing wrong with that though in my opinion, just own it.



In your opinion, I think he has.



This question takes for granted that I accept your opinion on if he is a fascist sympathizer or not. I don't accept your opinion so the question is pointless. And so is this discussion so...

Wow you must be a fun guy to hang around. Only one worldview exists and that is yours. You can't for even one second put yourself in Lucas's shoes and are instead attacking him. Try understand it from his perspective instead of yours. He has grown up in poverty and under dangerous circumstances, and yet you have no sympathy for him, and your rebuttal is probably "but he is supporting facism!"

This reminds of the movie "gone girl", which I have just seen two days ago, where the public have made their mind about a person by only knowing a fraction of the story. You should see it if you haven't, great movie.

Try to widen that narrow minded brain of yours
 

E17yid

Well-Known Member
Jan 21, 2013
16,985
30,495
Hopefully we’ve had a word with him to keep a low profile on politics.

I’m sure, being a deeply religious person, that he thinks homosexuals are immoral and will burn in hell, but he’s obviously sensible enough not to come out in public with that opinion and he should do the same when supporting unsavoury politicians even if it is on just 1 issue.
 

TheHoddleWaddle

Well-Known Member
Dec 13, 2013
11,289
20,289
So I guess that is why you try to belittle me by suggesting you've made me upset? I think it might be your style. Nothing wrong with that though in my opinion, just own it.



In your opinion, I think he has.



This question takes for granted that I accept your opinion on if he is a fascist sympathizer or not. I don't accept your opinion so the question is pointless. And so is this discussion so...

C'mon dude. No way was I doing that. I was trying to add a little levity. It's part of the problem with debate using text. You can draw inferences where there are none. Or none intended, if the author hasn't used correct emphasis it can always be taken negatively. We disagree, but at no time.was it personal. I thought you might have the hump a bit due to your response to mine.

Anyway. As we.were. Hopefully.this thread will be more positive in the coming weeks!
 

rossdapep

Well-Known Member
Aug 25, 2011
21,905
78,641
Oh, you are one of those people that argue dishonestly. I get it. I've talked about fascism, nothing else. So don't come at me with such dishonest crap like "you want to remove anyone you don't agree with". And drop the "sir" shit.

I think his tweets are far then enough evidence to suggest that he sympathizes with Bolsonaro (making him a fascist sympathizer). He argues for basically militarizing the cops so they can go in and kill all the criminals and describes Bolsonaro like one honest man out of thousands of corrupt politicians.



He is supporting a person that will on his platform with 2.9m followers. That is why I care.

But enough of this crap. Nothing we do or say will change anyhting.
Do you speak Portuguese?
 

THFCSPURS19

The Speaker of the Transfer Rumours Forum
Jan 6, 2013
37,886
130,485
Fucking hell... Went from being on a fast track to become one of my favorites to being one I want to get rid of.
So you now actively want the club to sell a player because of his political views?

If so, that deffo sounds completely fair and liberal.
 

Streetspur77

Happy Clapper
Jul 20, 2017
2,792
9,404
So you now actively want the club to sell a player because of his political views?

If so, that deffo sounds completely fair and liberal.

I mean it’s literally the most liberal thing possible to oppose the promotion of fascism...

If he’d said Lucas should be arrested then you’d have a point, but otherwise I think you lack an understanding of what liberalism is.
 

THFCSPURS19

The Speaker of the Transfer Rumours Forum
Jan 6, 2013
37,886
130,485
I mean it’s literally the most liberal thing possible to oppose the promotion of fascism...

If he’d said Lucas should be arrested then you’d have a point, but otherwise I think you lack an understanding of what liberalism is.
No, I don't think it's 'liberal' to get rid of an employee based on who they say they support politically. Pretty sure that contradicts the principle of free speech.

And btw, I'm about to start my final year of studying History and Politics at university, and I've studied Liberalism extensively, so I know what it is. It's obviously anti-fascism as an ideology but it also promotes core values such as free speech and diversity of opinion, so getting rid of a footballer because they say they like a certain political candidate on social media is not liberal.
 

Streetspur77

Happy Clapper
Jul 20, 2017
2,792
9,404
No, I don't think it's 'liberal' to get rid of an employee based on who they say they support politically. Pretty sure that contradicts the principle of free speech.

And btw, I'm about to start my final year of studying History and Politics at university, and I've studied Liberalism extensively, so I know what it is. It's obviously anti-fascism as an ideology but it also promotes core values such as free speech and diversity of opinion, so getting rid of a footballer because they say they like a certain political candidate on social media is not liberal.

Freedom of speech is freedom from the state not freedom to just say anything with no repercussions at all. If a company feels your speech negatively impacts them they aren’t compelled to continue paying you money, otherwise their freedom would be compromised, there will be something in the contract.

I’m not saying Lucas will have violated that or that I think he should be sold I just disagree with the idea that being liberal means you just have to sit there and accept the promotion of literal fascism to millions. This isn’t just someone’s political opinion, this is the promotion of a political opinion that no one else should have political opinions.
 
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