Ex-Player Watch Player Watch: Mousa Dembele

[doctor stefan Freud]

I find it funnier that your phone hates you and thinks you have a little willy so that is the story i'm going with.

Might not be a vindictive phone, just plain honest

 

[tiger666]

I don't want him to go. I think he could play as our DM.

His OPTA stats alone show he's on the decline. He's getting less effective defensively and committing more fouls. Time to move on:

 

[Joshua]

Seriously? Those stats mean nothing.

Dembele is the reason we were able to dominate teams like Dortmund, Madrid and Juventus through the middle in the champions league. Shit like less tackles just means there's less for him to do with others changing/upping their game.

If Dembele leaves, we'd be lucky to find a player who can fill the gap.

They don’t mean nothing and shouldn’t be dismissed. With his injury record and age it’s not unreasonable to suggest he’s declining. It might not be nice to accept as he’s been such a huge player for us over the last 3 years but Dembele’s time at the top is coming to an end and cashing in now may be the best option.

 

[THFCSPURS19]

Seriously? Those stats mean nothing.

Dembele is the reason we were able to dominate teams like Dortmund, Madrid and Juventus through the middle in the champions league. Shit like less tackles just means there's less for him to do with others changing/upping their game.

If Dembele leaves, we'd be lucky to find a player who can fill the gap.

He only played one of the matches against Dortmund, was injured for the Madrid match at the Bernabeu and only played 24 minutes against them at Wembley.

 

[Clark28]

Extrapolate that decline into the 18/19 season and it makes sense to sell now.

I will miss him though.

 

[spacessships]

Seriously? Those stats mean nothing.

Dembele is the reason we were able to dominate teams like Dortmund, Madrid and Juventus through the middle in the champions league. Shit like less tackles just means there's less for him to do with others changing/upping their game.

If Dembele leaves, we'd be lucky to find a player who can fill the gap.

This is wrong on so many counts.

Those stats are a very clear indication of what Poch already seems to know. We bossed Madrid in midfield because Winks played the game of his life. And our defensive midfield did not “up” its game last year, quite the opposite.

 

[fortworthspur]

His OPTA stats alone show he's on the decline. He's getting less effective defensively and committing more fouls. Time to move on:

those are interesting - I hadnt noticed a big decline other than the durability issue. This last season he'd have a stinker about once every 4 or 5 games but was very good in the others, which may explain the stats.

 

[spacessships]

Stats can just as easily look poor based on a player's role in a team, and how good said team is.

They mean nothing. How good a player in a deep role like that is can only be judged by the eye. It's like saying some mid-low table scrapper midfielder is better than Dembele based on more tackles, more interceptions, etc.

I understand what you're getting at, stats often don't tell the story, but in this situation they do.

So no, it's not "like saying some mid-low table scrapper midfield is better" because everyone on this forum understands the context in which Dembele plays in. If you were on a forum with people who don't watch every single Spurs game then maybe you could get away with such unfounded reasoning, but it's clear that while Dembele has been great for us, he's getting older and has begun going downhill—and the stats agree.

Btw, I'd love to hear you defend the idea that Kane's goal and Eriksen's assist tallies "mean nothing."

 

[dtxspurs]

I understand what you're getting at, stats often don't tell the story, but in this situation they do.

So no, it's not "like saying some mid-low table scrapper midfield is better" because everyone on this forum understands the context in which Dembele plays in. If you were on a forum with people who don't watch every single Spurs game then maybe you could get away with such unfounded reasoning, but it's clear that while Dembele has been great for us, he's getting older and has begun going downhill—and the stats agree.

Btw, I'd love to hear you defend the idea that Kane's goal and Eriksen's assist tallies "mean nothing."

On the other hand Dele Alli had more assists than Eriksen this year does that mean he's a more creative player? I surely don't think so.

We can pick and choose stats or say they don't matter. End of the day is that some are more telling than others but at the end of the day you have to see if with your eyes. Dembele is in decline and that spot would be the easiest to pick out for the place we most need to improve at to take us to the next level. Now with who, thats the 50 million pound question.

 

[Joshua]

So? He's been injured a bit as well.

Everyone overestimates the hell out of age. 31 years old isn't even close to declining age in his role. Modric is 33 this year and easily one of the best midfielders in the world.


Thought he played more than that, but oh well. He still single handedly dominated Juventus, particularly in Italy.

We will be lucky to find a player with anywhere near his ball retention abilities.


Stats can just as easily look poor based on a player's role in a team, and how good said team is.

They mean nothing. How good a player in a deep role like that is can only be judged by the eye. It's like saying some mid-low table scrapper midfielder is better than Dembele based on more tackles, more interceptions, etc.

If a striker entering their 30’s was consistently scoring less goals each year you wouldn’t dismiss it. There’s a lot of affection and appreciation for him and rightly so but retaining players that are declining when they can still be sold for a good price just isn’t sensible.

 

[dtxspurs]

Again, strikers are a different story. What do you expect Dembele to do that he's not already doing? He is arguably the best player at the world at keeping the ball at his feet and absorbing pressure, and none of the aforementioned stats posted above will tell you that.

If Dembele is happy to stay, he should stay, because there aren't many players in the world who could play his role better than he does, and it would be utterly idiotic to push him out the door. If he wants to leave for a retirement check, that's a different story.

Pass the ball effectively and decisively as a creative piece of the team. We've been pretty poor the last couple of years and last year to teams that will just press the hell out of us due to how slowly we move the ball through the midfield. City this year torched us and we struggled at Liverpool. With a CM who can pass the ball quicker we will be a much more effective team against every type of opponent. We need to pass better to beat the press and get around the bus.

 

[spacessships]

I didn't say stats in general mean nothing, I said stats for Dembele's role mean nothing. You cannot even come close to accurately assessing the quality of a deep midfielder by looking at their stats.

Strikers and Attacking Midfielders/Wingers are a completely different story.

Again, strikers are a different story. What do you expect Dembele to do that he's not already doing? He is arguably the best player at the world at keeping the ball at his feet and absorbing pressure, and none of the aforementioned stats posted above will tell you that.

If Dembele is happy to stay, he should stay, because there aren't many players in the world who could play his role better than he does, and it would be utterly idiotic to push him out the door. If he wants to leave for a retirement check, that's a different story.

You said,

Stats can just as easily look poor based on a player's role in a team, and how good said team is.

They mean nothing. How good a player in a deep role like that is can only be judged by the eye. It's like saying some mid-low table scrapper midfielder is better than Dembele based on more tackles, more interceptions, etc.

That doesn't sound unique to midfield stats, but sorry if I misread you.

It's difficult to answer "What do you expect Dembele to do that he's not already doing" if you won't accept stats as a form of credible evidence.

But regardless, I would first expect a starting CM to play more minutes. In 2011-12 a younger Dembele played 2941 league minutes for Fulham, for us last season he played 1886. I don't see how a 36% decline in game time isn't at least partly due to age, and you can say "he was injured" but that would only further my point.

But if all midfield stats aren't to be trusted then I'm not sure what you'll accept as conversational currency other than eyewitness accounts and personal intuition.

By all reports (which may be incorrect) Poch thinks Dembele should go, so that's all that really matters.

 

[spacessships]

Pass the ball effectively and decisively as a creative piece of the team. We've been pretty poor the last couple of years and last year to teams that will just press the hell out of us due to how slowly we move the ball through the midfield. City this year torched us and we struggled at Liverpool. With a CM who can pass the ball quicker we will be a much more effective team against every type of opponent. We need to pass better to beat the press and get around the bus.

Exactly, we couldn't dribble through Liverpool and City last year, and you sure won't be able to with their summer additions next year. IMO City showed last year that diagonal passing might be the most effective offensive tool against currently en vogue tactics like front line pressing and high defensive lines (an ability Alderweireld cannot be rated highly enough for, but oh well).

 

[spacessships]

I don't expect one. You either understand his influence or you don't.


See above.


Nah

lol k

 

[tiger666]

Sell.

 

[King of Otters]

Sell.

This post smells of stale dog piss and failure.

 

[cliff jones]

Sell.

you may be right of course, but I wouldn't put it past you to have had that post ready for the final whistle. He deserves better than your contempt.

 

[dtxspurs]

We should definitely be looking to upgrade, however if we don't bring in the right player we are going to feel this loss massively.

 

[Ghost Hardware]

He was absolutely awful tonight, constantly giving the ball away and committing fouls around Belgiums box. One of the worst performances I have seen from him. But, he looks seriously lacking match sharpness and it was a dumb move starting him in this game. Good reason why one shouldnt judge players on WC

 

[Blackrat1299]

Having watched the game tonight, I have to say, with a heavy heart, that it is time to say farewell to Mousa Dembele. He has been a terrific servant for our club, however the power has gone from the engine room.