Player Watch Player watch: Moussa Sissoko

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Makelele was a pretty limited footballer, but incredibly effective in his era. Maybe we're seeing the era of the battering ram? Trust Levy to be ahead of the game...
 

Everlasting Seconds

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He's played in every Spurs game this season.

Our supporters must think Poch is some kind of fucking mug :D
Our supporters must think that the options for CM have been rather slim due to injuries and lack of fitness, and Sissoko is handed a narrow CM role to play for now. If every CM in the squad is match ready, Sissoko will at best start on the bench.
 

Shadydan

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Are we talking about the same Poch who said Dembele is one of the 5 football genius’ he’s encountered in his life? Who, not long ago, said we had to be very careful with managing the amount of minutes he gets.

If Dembele was 100% He would’ve started.
I guess as always with players people don't like it's seeing what they want to see...but let's agree to disagree ;)
 

Phomesy

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Our supporters must think that the options for CM have been rather slim due to injuries and lack of fitness, and Sissoko is handed a narrow CM role to play for now. If every CM in the squad is match ready, Sissoko will at best start on the bench.
Well I would think so but playing time evidence suggests Poch sees far more in Sissoko than any of us do.

Also we are, of course, employing confirmation bias. The Ratings thread and this one were excoriating of Sissoko about his performance against Madrid - yet Winks also awkwardly scuffed what seemed a straightforward first time shot then followed it up with a easily saved chip. Winks also gave the ball away on the edge of our defensive area several times in under a minute - mistakes which, if made by Sissoko (and in this game, weren't) would have brought thunder and ridicule from the SC support.

The fact that Winks also played some beautiful football and passes should actually make us more critical of his mistakes because he's so much better on the ball than Sissoko. A far superior player. But none of this matters when a scapegoat is to be found.

I find it odd that there's so much loathign and ridicule on Sissoko on here. The guy has knuckled down, worked hard and learned to play within his (vast) limits and is doing a job for Poch that Poch finds so necessary that the bloke has played every game.

That kind of work ethic should be appreciated - Poch certainly does. It's a bit disturbing that so many "supporters" have nothing but derision for the bloke. Says more about some of us than it does about Sissoko imo.
 

Everlasting Seconds

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Well I would think so but playing time evidence suggests Poch sees far more in Sissoko than any of us do.

Also we are, of course, employing confirmation bias. The Ratings thread and this one were excoriating of Sissoko about his performance against Madrid - yet Winks also awkwardly scuffed what seemed a straightforward first time shot then followed it up with a easily saved chip. Winks also gave the ball away on the edge of our defensive area several times in under a minute - mistakes which, if made by Sissoko (and in this game, weren't) would have brought thunder and ridicule from the SC support.

The fact that Winks also played some beautiful football and passes should actually make us more critical of his mistakes because he's so much better on the ball than Sissoko. A far superior player. But none of this matters when a scapegoat is to be found.

I find it odd that there's so much loathign and ridicule on Sissoko on here. The guy has knuckled down, worked hard and learned to play within his (vast) limits and is doing a job for Poch that Poch finds so necessary that the bloke has played every game.

That kind of work ethic should be appreciated - Poch certainly does. It's a bit disturbing that so many "supporters" have nothing but derision for the bloke. Says more about some of us than it does about Sissoko imo.
We should criticise Winks more because he is better? I feel like you are trying to confuse me by tossing out all sorts of arguments in a great pot-of-stew of Sissoko arguments. Original point was: Does the fact that Pochettino is picking Sissoko so much prove or disprove any singular side of the debate? I say, it certainly doesn't prove Sissoko's critics wrong, simply because the CM options have been so few for so many weeks, one was sort of forced to play Sissoko. And if and when we have a squad of only match fit midfielders, Sissoko will have done very well if he makes a match day squad of 18 players.
 

Phomesy

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We should criticise Winks more because he is better? I feel like you are trying to confuse me by tossing out all sorts of arguments in a great pot-of-stew of Sissoko arguments. Original point was: Does the fact that Pochettino is picking Sissoko so much prove or disprove any singular side of the debate? I say, it certainly doesn't prove Sissoko's critics wrong, simply because the CM options have been so few for so many weeks, one was sort of forced to play Sissoko. And if and when we have a squad of only match fit midfielders, Sissoko will have done very well if he makes a match day squad of 18 players.
Okay I'll keep it simple for you then. Sissoko has played every game Spurs has played this season. This is not solely explainable by our injuries. If Sissoko was as bad as the visceral comments on this site suggest no amount of injuries would force Poch to play him.

But Poch has played him. In every single game.

So either Poch is a fucking mug... Or...?
 

Mr Pink

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We all know he's technically lacking.

But he's hard working off the ball, and when surging forward with it he really does disrupt the opponents shape that opens up the space for our more naturally talented attackers.

Why so many appraise players without appreciating the individual contribution to the collective as a whole amazes me.

If he was as bad as being made out we wouldn't be getting away with it in such a key area of the pitch, nor would Pochettino persist in picking him.

Personally I think he's a great squad option to have.
 

SpursBhoys

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yet Winks also awkwardly scuffed what seemed a straightforward first time shot then followed it up with a easily saved chip. Winks also gave the ball away on the edge of our defensive area several times in under a minute - mistakes which, if made by Sissoko (and in this game, weren't) would have brought thunder and ridicule from the SC support.

The fact that Winks also played some beautiful football and passes should actually make us more critical of his mistakes because he's so much better on the ball than Sissoko. A far superior player. But none of this matters when a scapegoat is to be found.
Difference between Winks and Sissoko is that Sissoko's 28, cost us £30M and is on reportedly one of the biggest wages in the squad, and Winks is 21, cost us £0M and is on a reportedly modest wage.

One also was bought and one came through our youth team - we're always going to question purchases over club talent as that's the majority of how Premier League club build their squads, and because with respect to the clubs around us we have less disposable income to spend on these purchases. It only makes sense we question

I'd love to see Sissoko turn it around and become a great player for us, but based on what I've seen so far I don't believe that he will.

He's turned in better performances recently, but nothing that justifies what we paid for and pay him.

I still go back and forth on whether or not Lamela was worth the £30M and he's done a hell of a lot more than Sissoko has - granted he's had more time and opportunity to.
 

Phomesy

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Difference between Winks and Sissoko is that Sissoko's 28, cost us £30M and is on reportedly one of the biggest wages in the squad, and Winks is 21, cost us £0M and is on a reportedly modest wage.

One also was bought and one came through our youth team - we're always going to question purchases over club talent as that's the majority of how Premier League club build their squads, and because with respect to the clubs around us we have less disposable income to spend on these purchases. It only makes sense we question

I'd love to see Sissoko turn it around and become a great player for us, but based on what I've seen so far I don't believe that he will.

He's turned in better performances recently, but nothing that justifies what we paid for and pay him.

I still go back and forth on whether or not Lamela was worth the £30M and he's done a hell of a lot more than Sissoko has - granted he's had more time and opportunity to.
Difference between Winks and Sissoko is one is a pure footballer with the potential to be anything. The other is the known quantity Sissoko.

And I don't have any problem with people questioning Sissoko's ability or worth or whatever. I DO have a problem with so-called "supporters" saying he's a "joke" or "thieving a living" or "the worst player ever". If people believe this they are saying outright that Poch is a fucking mug.

He's worked hard to play within his limits and do a job for Poch and Spurs. We could, and should, at least show some support for that. And when we have a full list it won't be an issue.
 

Mr.D

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Difference between Winks and Sissoko is one is a pure footballer with the potential to be anything. The other is the known quantity Sissoko.

And I don't have any problem with people questioning Sissoko's ability or worth or whatever. I DO have a problem with so-called "supporters" saying he's a "joke" or "thieving a living" or "the worst player ever". If people believe this they are saying outright that Poch is a fucking mug.

He's worked hard to play within his limits and do a job for Poch and Spurs. We could, and should, at least show some support for that. And when we have a full list it won't be an issue.
You're him, ain'tcha.
 

Everlasting Seconds

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Okay I'll keep it simple for you then. Sissoko has played every game Spurs has played this season. This is not solely explainable by our injuries. If Sissoko was as bad as the visceral comments on this site suggest no amount of injuries would force Poch to play him.

But Poch has played him. In every single game.

So either Poch is a fucking mug... Or...?
But it is highly explainable by injuries. Very much so. We've had more than one injured/unfit midfielder for every single game this season. At one point, All of Wanyama, Winks and Dembele were out. At the same time. Then what you do you do? You use what you've got.

Sissoko is a fringe/squad/rotation player. That's what he is. And he is better at being a rotation player this season, than last season. But he isn't "good", "great" or "Pochettino sees something we don't". There is no enigma to it. He is a rotation player, and we have been in a position of haivng to rely on the rotation option for a lot of the season. That's all.

This is exactly the same argument as I've had over all of Carroll, Mason, and Bentaleb. And as you know, Pochettino still being at the club, Carroll, Mason and Bentaleb are not. Because average is average, and will ultimately be replaced one way or another, and total amount of playing time cannot change that no matter how much you want it to be the case.
 

Phomesy

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But it is highly explainable by injuries. Very much so. We've had more than one injured/unfit midfielder for every single game this season. At one point, All of Wanyama, Winks and Dembele were out. At the same time. Then what you do you do? You use what you've got.

Sissoko is a fringe/squad/rotation player. That's what he is. And he is better at being a rotation player this season, than last season. But he isn't "good", "great" or "Pochettino sees something we don't". There is no enigma to it. He is a rotation player, and we have been in a position of haivng to rely on the rotation option for a lot of the season. That's all.

This is exactly the same argument as I've had over all of Carroll, Mason, and Bentaleb. And as you know, Pochettino still being at the club, Carroll, Mason and Bentaleb are not. Because average is average, and will ultimately be replaced one way or another, and total amount of playing time cannot change that no matter how much you want it to be the case.
You appear to be having a different conversation - or replying to a different point - than the one I've made repeatedly on this page.

I have said over and over that Sissoko is a limited player.

The point I've made is that he's playing within those limits and doing a job for Poch and Spurs and we should support him a little as opposed to calling him shit and waste of space.

And as much as you kick and scream against it the fact that Sissoko has played in every game this season shows that Poch supports him too. It's a remarkable stat - you're acting as if we've been decimated by injuries from the very first game. This is simply not true and when Sissoko comes on in central midfield replacing Dier AHEAD OF DEMBELE against REAL FUCKING MADRID - it speaks volumes. About what Poch thinks of him - and about the fickle and, quite honestly entitled prima-donna behaviour of some of our supporters.

yes, he will be replaced but until then - and while he does a job - how about we give him a little credit? Too hard?
 

slartibartfast

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Agreed. He appears to miscontrol 9 out of 10 balls but I'd say about 80% of the time it works out well and totally bamboozles the opposition. There is genius in his play I tell ye.
I'v a lad in my u10s team like that.
He plays in defence.
He can hardly stand up or run without falling over but players just cant get past him because they've no idea what he's going/trying to do and neither does he lol.
Can hardly kick a ball.
My assistant coach compared him to one of those inflatable blowy men that flap about in the wind lol.
BlondCaringAustraliankelpie-max-1mb.gif
 

Everlasting Seconds

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You appear to be having a different conversation - or replying to a different point - than the one I've made repeatedly on this page.

I have said over and over that Sissoko is a limited player.

The point I've made is that he's playing within those limits and doing a job for Poch and Spurs and we should support him a little as opposed to calling him shit and waste of space.

And as much as you kick and scream against it the fact that Sissoko has played in every game this season shows that Poch supports him too. It's a remarkable stat - you're acting as if we've been decimated by injuries from the very first game. This is simply not true and when Sissoko comes on in central midfield replacing Dier AHEAD OF DEMBELE against REAL FUCKING MADRID - it speaks volumes. About what Poch thinks of him - and about the fickle and, quite honestly entitled prima-donna behaviour of some of our supporters.

yes, he will be replaced but until then - and while he does a job - how about we give him a little credit? Too hard?
I have given him credit exactly as he deserves. He showed minutes of splendour vs. West Ham, inclusive of a perfect goal. He is better than last season, after being given a more restricted job brief consisting of bread-and-butter DM/CM duties. I've said from when he arrived that he'll work better in CM in a Pochettino system than any other position on the pitch, but that there were too many ahead of him in the pecking order. And probably, I would expect that his attitude now has improved from when he had a bust-up with Pochettino. That's the credit he is due.

What you don't seem to get, underlined by your frivolous use of letters in all-cap, is that most of the pro-Sissoko arguments, valid as they may be, comes with an equal valid opposite viewpoint:
"Pochettino plays him a lot, so clearly his critics are wrong" – "Pochettino plays him because he has no choice".
"Pochettino played him ahead of Dembele, that speaks volume" – "Yeah, it speaks volume about exactly how unfit Dembele is these days".
Etc. etc. etc.

After the time with Sissoko in the squad, I don't understand why some fans have this obsessive need for painting anything Sissoko in a glossy and nigh sanctimonious light. He isn't better than what he is. There is no worth in his game play that lies hidden somewhere and that only gifted people can spot. He is an average, highly replaceable squad player who luckily improved upon a dismal season, and is benefitting from several injuries in the squad. End of story
 

Phomesy

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Lol - Read the threads mate. Find me one post “painting Sissoko in a glossy... sanctimonious” light and I’ll show you a hundred calling him a useless ****.

That’s the point I’m making. It seems you agree with it if you could jut stop trying to make a sanctimonious point about stuff almost no one is saying about him!
 
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