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Player watch: Toby Alderweireld

stevenurse

Palacios' neck fat
May 14, 2007
6,089
10,022
75m at least for United. Or half that with Martial thrown in. Simple take it or leave it for both parties. He's under contract and even letting him go for 25m next summer would be preferable to him joining a direct rival.

By all means if he wants to go to Barcelona then go for it. To say Umtiti is better is ridiculous. He's younger of course but there's no way he's better than Toby. Don't forget that Barcelona control 90% of the games they play, in a stronger, but not as in depth league.

I can handle going abroad for 50/60m. The hit in money is worth keeping him away from United. If Umtiti was better, United would go for him instead anyway.
 

Ron Burgundy

SC Supporter
Jun 19, 2008
7,705
23,267
Toby is going - that much is clear and any comments along the lines of "we should pay him what he wants" are effectively pointless now, because it's not going to happen and I think he's either (a) determined to leave anyway or (b) asking for way more than we're prepared. So it's a non-starter

Given that he's going, of course we'd all rather that he didn't go to a Prem rival and that we got f*ck loads of cash, but it's clearly not as simple as that.

There's far too much smoke around the Utd situation for there to be no fire - unless Barca come in with a big offer, I'm afraid that's where he's going.

Given this, and recognising they have a player we seem to want (as an aside, I don't have a particularly strong view on Martial to be honest - he's talented and quick but he's been pretty patchy), we need to make sure we get the best deal possible, and that's likely to include Martial
 

DogsOfWar

Well-Known Member
Jan 12, 2005
2,292
3,603
Selling Toby to United would be one step back next season but if it secures De Ligt and Sessegnon it would be two steps forward in the long run as they improve and Toby declines.
Using the big clubs as a cash cow has got us to where we are today and if it helps us grow as a club we should keep taking advantage of that.
 

McArchibald

Well-Known Member
Jun 6, 2010
1,280
5,579
Selling Toby to United would be one step back next season but if it secures De Ligt and Sessegnon it would be two steps forward in the long run as they improve and Toby declines.
Using the big clubs as a cash cow has got us to where we are today and if it helps us grow as a club we should keep taking advantage of that.
Why would we take one step back? Our competitors keep moving forward...

Selling Toby to United would be absolute madness. No matter what the price, no matter what the circumstances...
 

Primativ

Well-Known Member
Aug 9, 2017
3,229
12,486
Any way you spin it, selling Toby to United is just crazy and shows that we are being sold a kipper by Levy. We are so close to challenging properly for the league if we make that final jump by adding true top quality to our squad in just 3 positions. Yet we are selling a key player to a direct rival for the second summer running.

I don't see how anyone can dress this up as a good thing for Spurs.
 

DogsOfWar

Well-Known Member
Jan 12, 2005
2,292
3,603
Why would we take one step back? Our competitors keep moving forward...

Selling Toby to United would be absolute madness. No matter what the price, no matter what the circumstances...

Even if it meant winning the league in 5 years time?
Pochettino is targeting 18 year olds as part of a long term plan. We're not catching up with City and United next season but we might in 5 years time with the right investment now.

This process has allowed us to drag ourselves out of mid-table and catch/overtake Liverpool, Chelsea, and Arsenal over the last decade so its proven to be effective in the past.
 

Ron Burgundy

SC Supporter
Jun 19, 2008
7,705
23,267
Any way you spin it, selling Toby to United is just crazy and shows that we are being sold a kipper by Levy. We are so close to challenging properly for the league if we make that final jump by adding true top quality to our squad in just 3 positions. Yet we are selling a key player to a direct rival for the second summer running.

I don't see how anyone can dress this up as a good thing for Spurs.

I don't agree with this. Is it ideal? No. But there's a strong air of inevitability about it.

I don't think it makes sense to have a disgruntled player who's not focused in the squad, and then have him leave for £22m next year.

Two scenarios:

1) we sell Toby, get Martial in return
2) we don't sell Toby, they get Umtiti, we have to look elsewhere for someone like Martial

I'd say option 1 is better than Option 2, in terms of strengthening us in absolute term and relative to Utd
 

brendanb50

Well-Known Member
Jul 21, 2005
4,483
3,890
Perhaps i'm missing something but is United really a club which represents that trophy laden step up for TA?

Don't get me wrong, they still win things but they look a way off challenging for the league - not much more likely than us arguably. Perhaps Mourinho brings a better cup focus than us but they're not consistently excellent any more.

This move under Fergie, i'd have got (and sadly did get when we lost some key men to them in the past) - challenging for PL, Domestic and European Cups but now, the silverware doesn't seem so assured.

Maybe i'm reading into this more than i should and the fact still stands United have a big edge on us winning trophies (or throw big money at doing so) but for me this doesn't seem like the best switch for the player? Unless it is all about his last big contract?
 

SEANSPURS1975

Well-Known Member
Sep 21, 2005
1,929
4,787
We have to start acting like a big club.
This summer we hold the cards on Toby. We cannot, we must not sell him to Man Utd. We cannot sell any of our top players to a league rival. None. Kyle Walker has to be the last.
The message this sends out is we are still a small club, with a small club mentality.
Our top players seeing another first choice player moving to a rival.
We are now competing with the big clubs so let’s start acting like a big club.
We will not win anything if we continue to sell our best players.
Big summer ahead, but we’ve been here for too long and know how this usually pans out.
Wonder if we’ll actually go for it (as Pochettino alluded to) or as I suspect, our club is more interested in the pound note than trophies?
 

tototoner

Staying Alert
Mar 21, 2004
29,387
34,059
we must stop selling to our rivals, just cements rival fans opinion that we are a stepping stone / selling club.

Man Utd have said they will not let Martial go to another Premier League team, we should do the same with Toby.
 

allatsea

Well-Known Member
Aug 31, 2012
8,865
16,052
we must stop selling to our rivals, just cements rival fans opinion that we are a stepping stone / selling club.

Man Utd have said they will not let Martial go to another Premier League team, we should do the same with Toby.

What will Man United do with Martial if he refuses to sign for non PL clubs ?
 

spursfan77

Well-Known Member
Aug 13, 2005
46,679
104,956
What will Man United do with Martial if he refuses to sign for non PL clubs ?

They'll keep him. The player must know he's got a 50 50 chance of outlasting Mourinho anyway.

I bet they don't sell to us. We've been here before. We will sell them Alderwiereld and get nothing in return.....or maybe a nice loan like Fraser Campbell!
 

WalkerboyUK

Well-Known Member
Jun 8, 2009
21,658
23,476
Sorry, but all this "we must not sell to a rival" is simply un-enforceable. Sure, we'd all like that to happen, but our rivals are winning things and therefore, until we do the same, we run the risk of players leaving.
Yes, we hold the contract for these players, but at the same time I'm pretty sure it would be illegal to prevent a player going where he wants to go. You can't tell someone they can only move abroad. Besides which, chances are that if you did that, the player would get the move he ultimately wants a year later.

Look at Neymar as a prime non PL example. Wanted to stay in Spain and move to Madrid.
Barca wouldn't sell him to them, so he went to PSG. A year later he is expected to move to Madrid.

And let's remove the rose-tinted spectacles for a minute.
What about when we try and get a player from another PL side??
 

SpartanSpur

Well-Known Member
Jan 27, 2011
12,552
43,063
Perhaps i'm missing something but is United really a club which represents that trophy laden step up for TA?

Don't get me wrong, they still win things but they look a way off challenging for the league - not much more likely than us arguably. Perhaps Mourinho brings a better cup focus than us but they're not consistently excellent any more.

This move under Fergie, i'd have got (and sadly did get when we lost some key men to them in the past) - challenging for PL, Domestic and European Cups but now, the silverware doesn't seem so assured.

Maybe i'm reading into this more than i should and the fact still stands United have a big edge on us winning trophies (or throw big money at doing so) but for me this doesn't seem like the best switch for the player? Unless it is all about his last big contract?

Combination of both really. It'd be foolish to think money wasn't a big factor. You'd still say it was more likely he picks up pots with them than us, just off recent history of them doing so when we have arguably been a superior team.

Regardless looks like his options are limited.
 

Wheeler Dealer

Well-Known Member
Jul 29, 2011
6,863
12,282
We have to start acting like a big club.
This summer we hold the cards on Toby. We cannot, we must not sell him to Man Utd. We cannot sell any of our top players to a league rival. None. Kyle Walker has to be the last.
The message this sends out is we are still a small club, with a small club mentality.
Our top players seeing another first choice player moving to a rival.
We are now competing with the big clubs so let’s start acting like a big club.
We will not win anything if we continue to sell our best players.
Big summer ahead, but we’ve been here for too long and know how this usually pans out.
Wonder if we’ll actually go for it (as Pochettino alluded to) or as I suspect, our club is more interested in the pound note than trophies?
We can only act like a big club once we start paying the wages of the big clubs. Irrespective of your industry, people in general gravitate to work for the businesses that will pay them the most. Football is no different.
Currently there has to be an acceptance that we don't and can't pay top dollar, so we have to build and plan within the resources available. Its difficult for fans to accept, but we are in no position to do anything else
 

brendanb50

Well-Known Member
Jul 21, 2005
4,483
3,890
Combination of both really. It'd be foolish to think money wasn't a big factor. You'd still say it was more likely he picks up pots with them than us, just off recent history of them doing so when we have arguably been a superior team.

Regardless looks like his options are limited.

Funny how this has happened with both Toby and Rose it seems. Levy must really be a shit to negotiate with.
 

Haddock

Captain
Oct 16, 2017
2,025
6,357
1) Toby obviously wants to leave
2) Recent ITK points to Man United and Chelsea being the only interested / prepared to pay what Levy asks for

Yeah it would painful to yet again sell one of our best players to a direct rival but I'm not sure we got a choice. I don't see the point in having a sulking world-class CB on the bench and then sell him for 25m next year (...and most likely our direct rivals will come in again for him). The rational decision is to sell him now for 50-60m. We've seen this time and time again: When a player wants out it's very hard to make amends. You can say what you want about Pochettino and how he's handling his squad but he's ruthless when it comes to togetherness, loyalty and collective belief. I for one admire that and I'd rather have a player who actually wants to play for Spurs than one who's half-hearted.

If there was the slightest chance that Toby would change his mind and sign a new contract I'm certain that has been explored. So before everyone is starting to ask for Levys head on a stick I suggest you try to asses the situation from a rational point of view.
 
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