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Player watch: Toby Alderweireld

Giovanni

Well-Known Member
Aug 31, 2012
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I don't think so. For me, anyway, I don't think he is the same player he was in 2016/17. He never looked that way for us when he cam back fro injury last season, and he has not done anything this summer to show me that he is back to where he was.

I'll admit that last year, I thought that Poch was not plying him due to the contract issue. Now, I am more of the opinion that Poch did not play him for footballing reasons. Last year - and certainly on the evidence of last season and the WC - Sanchez is a better player than Toby.

Sanchez has not yet reached the heights of Toby - when Toby was healthy. But I think there is a legitimate chance Toby will never regain that form either - age and injuries take a lot out of a player.


Its youre opinion and i respect but im not buying it no way. Toby is 29........29! History tells us that defenders in his style can play well into their 30's no problem at a very high level.

Its simply gametime. He needs a solid foundation of pre season and games. He was not playing for a long while and it is very difficult to just switch it on for the wc.
 

Spartan Spurs

MOLLON LAVEH
May 20, 2015
279
905
I don't disagree that Toby may have a few more years of top flight footy. I further agree that a back line of (Tripier/Sanchez/Toby/Verts/Rose) of two seasons ago was second to none.

Toby has incredible field sense. His reading & understanding of the game makes him a top player.

Having said that, I tend to agree with @LexingtonSpurs that he has not been the same since his injury & that Poch was right not to be playing him. He has not returned to the heights of 2016-17. And nothing at the WC makes me believe that that opinion should change. His athleticism has dropped which is a concern & on a few occasions I was quite surprised at his lack of urgency in getting back when bypassed.

Sanchez may not have Toby's field sense yet, but his physicality & determination more than makes up for it. The experience will come by playing with Verts along with Poch's tutoring.
 

Lighty64

I believe
Aug 24, 2010
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Im fine with loosing Toby as long as we get someone like De Ligt but if we sell to United that must include Martial or else we need to sell outside of England. Its not acceptable making them stronger even if it means 10m more.

but it's not 10m more, it will end up being 30m + less in our kitty, and with a buy out clause any team can buy him if they match it. United don't need to include Martial, though it would be great if they accept our offer, but what is important is when we sell a player we get full price we can, because at the moment we need to make sure we have as much extra cash to spend ourselves.

if it's true that the decision is down to Poch, and he would rather let go after being stabbed in the back, by a player that has had 2 long periods on the sidelines in the last 2 seasons, then what is the point of paying his wages for a season that Poch might not play as much, then have to sell him for 30m+ less next season.

we are not being forced to sell Toby, so we have no right to get anything in return other than the price we put on his head.

I'd be happy if he stayed another year, absolutely. He's still a quality CB, despite his injuries. Should he go for £25m next summer - so be it. He'll be 30 by then and in the mean time we can try to find a replacement (de Ligt or another).

you would be happy is he stayed and we only got £25m, yet would soon moan because we couldn't sign our main target next season because we haven't as much in the budget :ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO:
 

LexingtonSpurs

Well-Known Member
Aug 27, 2013
13,456
39,042
Its youre opinion and i respect but im not buying it no way. Toby is 29........29! History tells us that defenders in his style can play well into their 30's no problem at a very high level.
Fair enough.

I would just caution - I don't think there are many defenders who played at a high level into their 30's after leg injuries (two hamstring injuries and a knee injury) in their, 26, 28 and 29 yo seasons.

And, there are not many teams that have historically played a high-line like Poch plays - and that is an added stress on defenders. Playing 3 at the back, with someone who has pace, helps. But I don't think injury-prone players will age well in this system. In fact, I think we will start to see Vertonghen rested more frequently this year, if we bring in a new CB.

I would love to see Toby of 2016/17, and I agree that if makes it back to that level, we have the best defense in the league. I just think it will be very difficult for him to get back to those levels at his age - not that he can't, but just that its risky to rely on that happening.
 

dtxspurs

Welcome to the Good Life
Dec 28, 2017
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you would be happy is he stayed and we only got £25m, yet would soon moan because we couldn't sign our main target next season because we haven't as much in the budget :ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO:
You can keep cheering for the transfer fees, we would like to cheer for the best team possible.
 

Lighty64

I believe
Aug 24, 2010
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I don't disagree that Toby may have a few more years of top flight footy. I further agree that a back line of (Tripier/Sanchez/Toby/Verts/Rose) of two seasons ago was second to none.

Toby has incredible field sense. His reading & understanding of the game makes him a top player.

Having said that, I tend to agree with @LexingtonSpurs that he has not been the same since his injury & that Poch was right not to be playing him. He has not returned to the heights of 2016-17. And nothing at the WC makes me believe that that opinion should change. His athleticism has dropped which is a concern & on a few occasions I was quite surprised at his lack of urgency in getting back when bypassed.

Sanchez may not have Toby's field sense yet, but his physicality & determination more than makes up for it. The experience will come by playing with Verts along with Poch's tutoring.

Sanchez has only been with us for 1 season
 

Lighty64

I believe
Aug 24, 2010
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You can keep cheering for the transfer fees, we would like to cheer for the best team possible.

but keeping Toby when it sounds like Poch wants rid doesn't equal winning a trophy, though might make us stronger for the CoC. after accepting a contract offer (verbally I expect) , to then change and want so much more definitely hasn't gone well with Poch. if there is bad feeling then it could cost us a lot more than the possibility of winning a cup. that 30m could make a big difference this season and win us something, and with last seasons injury taking so long to recover, his hamstring just might not suit our high line anymore and cost us in matches and leave us short long term in the season.

you said in an earlier post that our defence was good in the 2 months they played together. out of 7 they played 6, PL matches and conceded 3 goals
 

Colonel Dax

Well-Known Member
Jul 24, 2008
2,946
12,289
but it's not 10m more, it will end up being 30m + less in our kitty, and with a buy out clause any team can buy him if they match it. United don't need to include Martial, though it would be great if they accept our offer, but what is important is when we sell a player we get full price we can, because at the moment we need to make sure we have as much extra cash to spend ourselves.

if it's true that the decision is down to Poch, and he would rather let go after being stabbed in the back, by a player that has had 2 long periods on the sidelines in the last 2 seasons, then what is the point of paying his wages for a season that Poch might not play as much, then have to sell him for 30m+ less next season.

we are not being forced to sell Toby, so we have no right to get anything in return other than the price we put on his head.



you would be happy is he stayed and we only got £25m, yet would soon moan because we couldn't sign our main target next season because we haven't as much in the budget :ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO:

Not sure that many smileys were necessary but anyway...
Selling Toby next year won’t be as lucrative sure, but on the other hand we’ll have a quality player who can contribute this season, which may help to win us a trophy or get us into the CL again. It’s a risk of course but our revenue is projected to be £400m + next season so we won’t be going bankrupt any time soon.
 

dtxspurs

Welcome to the Good Life
Dec 28, 2017
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but keeping Toby when it sounds like Poch wants rid doesn't equal winning a trophy, though might make us stronger for the CoC. after accepting a contract offer (verbally I expect) , to then change and want so much more definitely hasn't gone well with Poch. if there is bad feeling then it could cost us a lot more than the possibility of winning a cup. that 30m could make a big difference this season and win us something, and with last seasons injury taking so long to recover, his hamstring just might not suit our high line anymore and cost us in matches and leave us short long term in the season.

you said in an earlier post that our defence was good in the 2 months they played together. out of 7 they played 6, PL matches and conceded 3 goals
4 shutouts in 6 games... guess that isn't very good you're right.
 

Lighty64

I believe
Aug 24, 2010
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Not sure that many smileys were necessary but anyway...
Selling Toby next year won’t be as lucrative sure, but on the other hand we’ll have a quality player who can contribute this season, which may help to win us a trophy or get us into the CL again. It’s a risk of course but our revenue is projected to be £400m + next season so we won’t be going bankrupt any time soon.

if our budget this season ties in with selling Toby (because we expect too) then what do we do with that expected money in? when next season we will only get 25m unless he signs a contract without a release clause, and on our terms not what he expects, but if he goes it will still effect. next season this seasons 40-50m replacement will be 60-70m.

if we could have the Toby of 2 seasons ago and not be worried about his injuries then perhaps take a chance, but I honestly don't see that Toby would be the answer to winning a Cup, he was quite used in the FA Cup, we still didn't win that last season or the season before, so no guarantee he would be the difference this forth coming season


4 shutouts in 6 games... guess that isn't very good you're right.

3 of those 4 shut outs you would of hoped to get, and the way Everton's season was heading you could say you would of expected/hoped. it wasn't as if we played anyone other than Liverpool in those 6. Swansea, Bournemouth and Huddersfield a good chance if Toby wasn't playing in them, Foyth would of helped secure a CS.

if we had done shit during his abscense I would be arguing too, but we never. We still only conceded more than 2 goals in 3 games for the rest of the season, twice v Man C and the final game which Toby was in the starting team.

if Poch doesn't intend on using him, he becomes a bad apple, 1 bad apple can spread bad vibes. we need a 25 man squad all singing from the same hymn sheet. with that injury I think we would have to sit a lot deeper, and if rumours of changing to a 4-3-3 is true then we will need players that can turn with pace in a high line, and Toby doesn't have that
 
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dtxspurs

Welcome to the Good Life
Dec 28, 2017
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3 of those 4 shut outs you would of hoped to get, and the way Everton's season was heading you could say you would of expected/hoped. it wasn't as if we played anyone other than Liverpool in those 6. Swansea, Bournemouth and Huddersfield a good chance if Toby wasn't playing in them, Foyth would of helped secure a CS.

if we had done shit during his abscense I would be arguing too, but we never. We still only conceded more than 2 goals in 3 games for the rest of the season, twice v Man C and the final game which Toby was in the starting team.

if Poch doesn't intend on using him, he becomes a bad apple, 1 bad apple can spread bad vibes. we need a 25 man squad all singing from the same hymn sheet. with that injury I think we would have to sit a lot deeper, and if rumours of changing to a 4-3-3 is true then we will need players that can turn with pace in a high line, and Toby doesn't have that
Then in the champions league only conceding a banger from outside the 18 yard box to Yarmelenko and a PK from a foul on Serge against Madrid... Jan has that pace? That pace and highline sure helped against Juve in the champions league. Toby has not once shown signs of being a bad apple to the rest of the squad.

Rumors of changing to a 4-3-3 have been 100% solely people on this forum making that up.
 

Lighty64

I believe
Aug 24, 2010
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Then in the champions league only conceding a banger from outside the 18 yard box to Yarmelenko and a PK from a foul on Serge against Madrid... Jan has that pace? That pace and highline sure helped against Juve in the champions league. Toby has not once shown signs of being a bad apple to the rest of the squad.

Rumors of changing to a 4-3-3 have been 100% solely people on this forum making that up.

he hasn't no, but if (PLEASE READ THE NEXT BIT) Poch doesn't use him, and he gets pissed off with hardly any playing time, he COULD become a bad apple
 

Neon_Knight_

Well-Known Member
Jul 20, 2011
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6,608
I don't think so. For me, anyway, I don't think he is the same player he was in 2016/17. He never looked that way for us when he cam back fro injury last season, and he has not done anything this summer to show me that he is back to where he was.

I'll admit that last year, I thought that Poch was not plying him due to the contract issue. Now, I am more of the opinion that Poch did not play him for footballing reasons. Last year - and certainly on the evidence of last season and the WC - Sanchez is a better player than Toby.

Sanchez has not yet reached the heights of Toby - when Toby was healthy. But I think there is a legitimate chance Toby will never regain that form either - age and injuries take a lot out of a player.

Even a slightly out of form Alderweireld is better than 90% of our rivals (PL & CL) starting CBs, and he could easily have another 5 years left at the top level.
 

Colonel Dax

Well-Known Member
Jul 24, 2008
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if our budget this season ties in with selling Toby (because we expect too) then what do we do with that expected money in? when next season we will only get 25m unless he signs a contract without a release clause, and on our terms not what he expects, but if he goes it will still effect. next season this seasons 40-50m replacement will be 60-70m.

if we could have the Toby of 2 seasons ago and not be worried about his injuries then perhaps take a chance, but I honestly don't see that Toby would be the answer to winning a Cup, he was quite used in the FA Cup, we still didn't win that last season or the season before, so no guarantee he would be the difference this forth coming season

No guarantee of success, of course, but I think the team (and squad) is better with Toby in it. Just my opinion. As long as he buckles down and doesn't disrupt the squad - and let's be honest there is no tangible evidence that he is a bad influence in training - then I'd be happy for him to be around for one more season. Yes we'll be losing out financially in terms of his transfer fee but I'm not confident we'll find a replacement this summer anyway. Last we heard on de Ligt was that it was a complicated deal. In that case I'd rather not offload Toby now.

However I respect your view.
 

dtxspurs

Welcome to the Good Life
Dec 28, 2017
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Didn't remember in the Liverpool game @ Wembley we lined up with a midfield 3 of Alli, Winks & Eriksen. That is the kind of stability that the back 3 can bring us and allow us to play a midfield like that and not suffer the consequences as badly.
 

vavaboom

Well-Known Member
Jul 19, 2011
754
551
I'm still holding out hope he'll have a sit down with Levy and Poch when he gets back to the UK. Everybody will have a nice cup of tea and they'll sort all this out.

3 at the back worked so well for the short time we had Toby playing last year.
 

Lighty64

I believe
Aug 24, 2010
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No guarantee of success, of course, but I think the team (and squad) is better with Toby in it. Just my opinion. As long as he buckles down and doesn't disrupt the squad - and let's be honest there is no tangible evidence that he is a bad influence in training - then I'd be happy for him to be around for one more season. Yes we'll be losing out financially in terms of his transfer fee but I'm not confident we'll find a replacement this summer anyway. Last we heard on de Ligt was that it was a complicated deal. In that case I'd rather not offload Toby now.

However I respect your view.

I respect yours, and I've most probably not added enough salt to the news about Poch and Toby falling out, but if they have then Toby will not play as much, and my understanding of wanting more than what was offered might of been due to the amount he lost out on bonuses through injury over the last 2 seasons. last season he missed most of it through a hamstring injury, the season before he missed 7 matches through a freak knee injury.

I doubt we won't replace him if he goes, would prefer de Ligt which might still happen if Ajax don't get the offer in by our transfer window closing and feel they will be left with an unhappy player (if he does want out).

if Toby had agreed and signed a contract when he had the chance, I'd be very happy, but he never, he has pissed Poch off by what we hear, and no way can we really afford to throw 30m away on a player that might be an injury risk, or might not play because Poch isn't happy with him, when that 30m could strengthen us going forwards.
 

Hakkz

Svensk hetsporre
Jul 6, 2012
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I'm still holding out hope he'll have a sit down with Levy and Poch when he gets back to the UK. Everybody will have a nice cup of tea and they'll sort all this out.

3 at the back worked so well for the short time we had Toby playing last year.

Wasn't the back 3 with Sanchez/Jan/Toby the formation we started with last season and we could barely score until we went back to a back 4?
 
Aug 9, 2008
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I'm still holding out hope he'll have a sit down with Levy and Poch when he gets back to the UK. Everybody will have a nice cup of tea and they'll sort all this out.

3 at the back worked so well for the short time we had Toby playing last year.


Me too!! Id love him to stay but i think poch really dont want him after his or his advising team behavior
 
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