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Poch needs to take a long hard look at himself.

Hazardousman

Audere est Facere
Jul 24, 2013
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Over reaction. Why on earth should sats
Effect pochs future? Crazy

Because he has to show that he is adaptive, if we play well and lose, if we show the passion we did last season and the press and lose I think people can stomach that, we have to see progress that's the main thing, you can still see progress even when a team loses, however if we see the same kind of performance we witnessed tonight and that we have been seeing since that City game then and we lose the game then I think it will affect his future at the club because it's showing consistent regression.

The players are already low in terms of morale, there is no telling what a loss will do, the fact we are unbeaten is frankly the only thing we can hold on to at this moment in time in terms of what we have achieved so far this season, we are already out of two cups, one being the biggest comp in world football and the football we have played has been a far cry from last season.

From an outsiders perspective it looks worrying, everyone is noticing the drop off in quality with us from last season, the fans are starting to notice it, imagine what it looks like to a football board, the players are clearly capable of more as shown last season and we have been extremely fortunate so far to remain unbeaten, like I said, West Ham was a get out of jail free card.

I am simply saying, football changes fast, Poch and the players can't afford to rest on their laurels and expect the hype from last season to carry them away from criticism, as long as progress is being shown however things will remain stable, I am not saying we should be expected to win the league but I do believe that going from 3rd to 5th/6th and being overtaken by teams that were considered to be in turmoil when we were much further ahead in our project and as a team then questions will need to be seriously asked.

Last season should by any metric have been a springboard to push forward not a rope to hang ourselves by the neck with and take away all the good work that has been achieved and frankly at this point, it's hard to know which one we are going to get at the end of this season but in my eyes at least, we look like we are regressing, despite our position in the league showing otherwise.

It's not beyond fixing at this point but things need to change and fast in my opinion, not even results, just our performances because the latter is the most worrying part.
 

millsey

Official SC Numpty
Dec 8, 2005
8,735
11,504
No one is saying he should be sacked, but hes made some baffling decisions lately and needs to sort it out.
He simply doesn't know who to play when first X11 injured. Been tough with injuries this year
 

Hazardousman

Audere est Facere
Jul 24, 2013
4,619
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All our injuries have had a huge effect on us this season but yeah Pochs useless, get rid

Let's get the next one in. Great idea

He's hopeless managing in his 1st season in the CL trying to juggle the league with an ok squad ravaged by injuries

Top thread

I never once said we should sack him, I am simply asking questions that I feel are relevant.
 

rabbikeane

Well-Known Member
Mar 29, 2005
6,884
12,675
Both Monaco and Leverkusen are far better than any team in Leicester's group.
I actually think we could have gone through their group using full rotation,
it's no stronger than most of the Europa League groups we've been in.
 

Hoops

Well-Known Member
Mar 15, 2015
3,650
6,363
I think I've reiterated it enough but Poch sets the tone and it seemed that he had no passion or whatever for the CL, which I just find bewildering. I'm ashamed of the players because they showed nothing but how can we blame the players when even the manager doesn't care?

What I'm keen to understand is if he doesn't care about the CL to prioritise it then what is his ambition and aspiration for this team? To win the PL? But to win it you need better players and to buy better players you need more money and more money stems from CL.

Unless he is trying to prove a point by fucking up the CL he is showing Levy that he doesn't have the squad? I don't know.


I agree. I think he knows that Levy will judge him by league position no matter what he does in the cups. Is the only way to explain his cup selections.
 

Hazardousman

Audere est Facere
Jul 24, 2013
4,619
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It's this obsession with blame that upsets me.

Leicester can play their first 11 for this because the league has gone for them. There is also zero pressure on them - if they get out of the group great - if they don't then they are just little old Leicester so it was always a huge ask.We are expected (by pundits and lots of our fanbase) to beat anyone other than the top 5 or 6 teams in the world because we are Spurs!

Poch is trying to use the squad and today it just didn't work out. However, if he flogs the core 11 to death, many would be calling for his head in a couple of months when we are losing games due to fatigue!

But we aren't even performing in the league mate, this is part of the issue, if we are resting players and then performing well in the league it's at least somewhat understandable but the thing is, we aren't, our league performances have been underwhelming, lacking energy, we look tired before we even kick a football, our pressing has all but gone.

The fact we remain unbeaten is testament to our defending quite frankly, going forward we have been lethargic and uninspired, I don't think that's anything to do with flogging the core squad, I think it's to do with the fact that, tactically we have been poor.
 

stevenurse

Palacios' neck fat
May 14, 2007
6,089
10,022
Has this current squad won a single game where the pressure was really on?

I loved 95% of last season but every time push came to shove we have blown it and the CL is a microcosm of that whole phenomenon.

Last year we had Leicester to beat to go top, lost. West Ham to go top, lost. The scum to cement our place above them, threw away a lead. Then the subsequent cluster fuck that was the west Brom, Chelsea, Southampton and Newcastle games.

This seasons "must win" games so far have all been lost and I have no doubt whatsoever that Saturday will be a crushing reminder of our true position
 

Hazardousman

Audere est Facere
Jul 24, 2013
4,619
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Harder group? Have a word!

Bayern in our group isn't even top half of their domestic league, I am not saying we had an easy group but I do believe Leicester has a slightly tougher group than ours, I would at the very least say their were equal in quality, we should have at the very least finished second in our group.
 

SEANSPURS1975

Well-Known Member
Sep 21, 2005
1,929
4,787
Pochettino totally fucked up today. From picking a weakened team to playing a formation the players had no idea how to play it. Worryingly, after an appalling first half, Pochettino gives the,players a team talk and we concede with minutes of the re-start. Then after we score the penalty Monaco score seconds later!!! Is there something deeply wrong in that dressing room?Something is clearly not right. I cannot get my head round why we wouldn't play our best team. Tonights debacle lays squarely on the shoulders of the manager.
 

spursfan77

Well-Known Member
Aug 13, 2005
46,679
104,956
He is saying we need to spend more money

That's what all managers say when they're under pressure and don't know what else to say. He's now wrong though, which is funny because he got everything else wrong tonight!
 

LSUY

Well-Known Member
Jul 12, 2005
24,010
66,826
It's almost like we lost a game of football tonight?

Jesus wept, it wasn't pretty tonight and it hasn't been great in the Champions League but why was our previous effort in the CL so amazing? Because it was so totally unexpected, because we punched a LONG way above our weight!

This season we've looked what we are - a young team with a lack of experience at this level. This need from some fans to chuck it all away and start again when it's not going smoothly is mental. Don't get me wrong I'm as fucked off as anyone about the way that we've played recently. I'm a ST holder and bought all 3 tickets for Wembley so I feel as much pain as anyone BUT it's a learning process for everyone at the club at the moment.

We knew when we appointed Poch that he'd never managed at this level, that he was relatively new as a coach, that he would "learn on the job". that's what we are seeing here - it's grim but we are Spurs, a top 6 club - NOT Borrusia Dortmund whatever some on here might think.

Learning on the job doesn't excuse what we saw today. How many games have Wimmer and Dier played in defence together? Pochettino has said Vertonghen was rested for tonight and there is no issues regarding his fitness so why go with an inexperienced centre-back partnership against the highest scorers in Europe's big leagues? I like Poch but he fucked up today.
 

muppetman

Well-Known Member
Jul 29, 2011
8,897
24,800
But we aren't even performing in the league mate, this is part of the issue, if we are resting players and then performing well in the league it's at least somewhat understandable but the thing is, we aren't, our league performances have been underwhelming, lacking energy, we look tired before we even kick a football, our pressing has all but gone.

The fact we remain unbeaten is testament to our defending quite frankly, going forward we have been lethargic and uninspired, I don't think that's anything to do with flogging the core squad, I think it's to do with the fact that, tactically we have been poor.
It could be OR it could be that we've got a few players who are struggling for form - Alli, Eriksen, Janssen - and some who perhaps aren't quite fit - Dembele, Kane, Alli - and then we've tried to shoehorn in more replacements at one time than we'd like - Wimmer, Dier at CB, Trippier, I suspect Winks is seeing more game time than he would otherwise and of course we are still missing Toby - who's only the best CB in the league so presumably no team would miss him?

So perhaps it's not all doom and gloom, perhaps we just haven't had the easy ride that we had last season?

I agree that Poch got it wrong today - we were weak in wide areas which is why Monaco's best player was one of their full backs. However, I think there are mitigating circumstances.
 

spursfan77

Well-Known Member
Aug 13, 2005
46,679
104,956
It could be OR it could be that we've got a few players who are struggling for form - Alli, Eriksen, Janssen - and some who perhaps aren't quite fit - Dembele, Kane, Alli - and then we've tried to shoehorn in more replacements at one time than we'd like - Wimmer, Dier at CB, Trippier, I suspect Winks is seeing more game time than he would otherwise and of course we are still missing Toby - who's only the best CB in the league so presumably no team would miss him?

So perhaps it's not all doom and gloom, perhaps we just haven't had the easy ride that we had last season?

I agree that Poch got it wrong today - we were weak in wide areas which is why Monaco's best player was one of their full backs. However, I think there are mitigating circumstances.

If it's due to injuries or players carrying injuries into games he needs to be more truthful about it. Starting with the Alderweireld one. I'm starting to think we might not see him this side of Christmas the way things are going.
 

sundanceyid10

Well-Known Member
Aug 22, 2013
3,379
8,319
This season has largely been a complete shower of shit. Slow, turgid, passionless football. Levy backed Poch with players he asked for spending close to £60m for the trio and only one has even been halfway decent, the cheapest one. People here are so quick to absolve Poch for absolutely no reason.

Also, constantly rotating the team in the crown jewel of club football competition and not once playing your strongest XI is, for me, a sackable offense.
He is 4 points of the top of the league and unbeaten, some of us have been fans long enough to remember truely shit managers. You embarrass yourself over and over again repeatedly on this forum, you are an utter tool.
 

muppetman

Well-Known Member
Jul 29, 2011
8,897
24,800
Learning on the job doesn't excuse what we saw today. How many games have Wimmer and Dier played in defence together? Pochettino has said Vertonghen was rested for tonight and there is no issues regarding his fitness so why go with an inexperienced centre-back partnership against the highest scorers in Europe's big leagues? I like Poch but he fucked up today.

Because the alternative was that Verts got crocked tonight and we then have a back four against Chelsea of Wimmer, Dier, Trippier and Walker with Trippier at LB? or we play KWP? This assumes Walker is OK btw, Rose and Davies are out.

I think that had Wanyama and Dembele played as they should, had Dele and Son been willing and able to track back then it wouldn't have been such a huge issue. The CB pairing was left massively exposed because Son and Dele either couldn't or wouldn't defend.
 

muppetman

Well-Known Member
Jul 29, 2011
8,897
24,800
If it's due to injuries or players carrying injuries into games he needs to be more truthful about it. Starting with the Alderweireld one. I'm starting to think we might not see him this side of Christmas the way things are going.
I think it's clear to everyone now that you cannot believe what Poch says about injury timescales, he has been at best optimistic about a few now.
 
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