Pochettino 'angry and frustrated' after Spurs draw with Besiktas

[Barry Mead]

I think Poch has to take the bulk of the blame. I understand he wants to use his squad and give players a rest but you can't change so many players so frequently and expect to build cohesion in a team

His selections have been poor, his substitutions last night were awful and his tactics ineffective.

How he could leave Chiriches on all game is simply beyond comprehension. OK you may want to give a guy a bit of time to play himself into a game after an unsteady start, but there comes a point when you have to say enough is enough for the sake of the team and for the player himself. He might have been upset at being subbed early but his confidence must be rock bottom after that display

To allow the opposition so much dominance in a home game was really bad, he's lucky we managed a draw, he could hardly have complained if we had lost. It might be early days but he really needs to start delivering some results and decent performances soon because the insipid stuff dished up so far can't be continued without the press starting to turn on him and that will can have a bad impact if the team is then under the microscope

Sunday was already a critical game because of the comparisons that will be made, Poch really needs to get his act together and try and instill some drive, desire and energy into the team, lets hope he can deliver

 

[onthetwo]

I think Poch has to take the bulk of the blame. I understand he wants to use his squad and give players a rest but you can't change so many players so frequently and expect to build cohesion in a team

His selections have been poor, his substitutions last night were awful and his tactics ineffective.

How he could leave Chiriches on all game is simply beyond comprehension. OK you may want to give a guy a bit of time to play himself into a game after an unsteady start, but there comes a point when you have to say enough is enough for the sake of the team and for the player himself. He might have been upset at being subbed early but his confidence must be rock bottom after that display

To allow the opposition so much dominance in a home game was really bad, he's lucky we managed a draw, he could hardly have complained if we had lost. It might be early days but he really needs to start delivering some results and decent performances soon because the insipid stuff dished up so far can't be continued without the press starting to turn on him and that will can have a bad impact if the team is then under the microscope

Sunday was already a critical game because of the comparisons that will be made, Poch really needs to get his act together and try and instill some drive, desire and energy into the team, lets hope he can deliver

agree - He started off badly and was almost comically bad all night while Fazio looked shaky at the start but got better as the game went on...and all the while Naughton sat on the bench twiddling his thubs. First game of the Poch era where i felt as angry with him as i did with a few of the players.

 

[Metalhead]

its a fair comparison though, IMO. I thought we'd moved up in the world but that performance was like a flash-back to a pretty bleak period from the past. Mitchell Thomas, Chris Fairclough, Stuart Nethercott...it was that kind of level though even more frustrating as Vlad clearly has ability, the others were just shit players..

Yes, there have been a fair few very dodgy defenders at Spurs and one wonders who thought that players like the ones mentioned would be up to the job. We were all really pissed off with Chiriches last night and if truth be told, we were lucky to be hanging on for the win anyway but I'm now torn between wondering whether he is just plain not up to the job or if it's a case of his confidence being shot.

 

[Metalhead]

So MoPo thought Vlad's performance would improve if he let him play on? Error of judgment imo. If a player is consistently making mistakes and having a bad game, he absolutely MUST be subbed.

Absolutely. Obviously he's going to feel down but it's unlikely that he is going to be able to turn it around in the match. He is clearly in need of extra coaching and/or something to boost his confidence.

 

[Gaz_Gammon]

To allow the opposition so much dominance in a home game was really bad, he's lucky we managed a draw, he could hardly have complained if we had lost. It might be early days but he really needs to start delivering some results and decent performances soon because the insipid stuff dished up so far can't be continued without the press starting to turn on him and that will can have a bad impact if the team is then under the microscope

Sunday was already a critical game because of the comparisons that will be made, Poch really needs to get his act together and try and instill some drive, desire and energy into the team, lets hope he can deliver

This is exactly the way i feel on the whole situation. Giving a manager time is all well and good and God knows we need stability on this, but that said nothing has in general improved whether it be defending, supply from midfield or attack.

Can anyone truly say that in general any of the one hundred and thirty odd million spent on players over the past three seasons has improved this Spurs side?

The football being produced is slow, ponderous, predictable and boring with little if any end product. Ade and Soldado have not become poor overnight and have offered hardly any threat all season.

For a manager of vision and of implementing a specific system i am starting to wonder Poch is struggling? How can he see a player like Chiriches struggle game after game and yet still persist with him?

Early days maybe, but i would expect to see some improvement from pre-season. I have seen little so far this season against sides (except Liverpool) that we should consider anything other than three pointers.

Poch can be as angry as he wants but enough of the rhetoric and how about some evidence of intent?

 

[Buggsy61]

its a fair comparison though, IMO. I thought we'd moved up in the world but that performance was like a flash-back to a pretty bleak period from the past. Mitchell Thomas, Chris Fairclough, Stuart Nethercott...it was that kind of level though even more frustrating as Vlad clearly has ability, the others were just shit players..

Agreed. The Vlad who played at Old Trafford in our 2-1 win was immense plus other games when he looked like a top class defender in the making, so whats happened to him is anyones guess.
We seem to play in silos defence/midfield/attack with no fluidity between the 3 so end up playing many meaningless balls before we lose possession. Its lacking someone who can make the play and knit it all together a la Modric.
This season Ade has been back to his old ways and not sure if its a symptom of the team or just his own form and attidtude. Ironic really but the one manager who seemed to really get him going was Sherwood!.

 

[Lucky22]

I think we need a little perspective too, despite the result. We had our second string out there against possibly there best first 11 and only for a stupid, stupid mistake we would have won. Yes, the performance wasn't great. our overall resilience over the last two games is welcoming and at least it is something to build on. Another goal from Kane, some decent play by Bentaleb and, to a lesser degree, Townsend and Davies are also positives.

 

[Barry Mead]

I think we need a little perspective too, despite the result. We had our second string out there against possibly there best first 11 and only for a stupid, stupid mistake we would have won. Yes, the performance wasn't great. our overall resilience over the last two games is welcoming and at least it is something to build on. Another goal from Kane, some decent play by Bentaleb and, to a lesser degree, Townsend and Davies are also positives.

We have a choice of what team we put out, we have a choice of what subs we make, we were at home and yet dominated by the opposing team. Easy to say our B team was out there but the likes of Hugo, Dier, Vlad, Bentalab, have all featured in quite a few first team games and Stam, Davies and Fazio were all bought in summer to presumably challenge for a starting place

We weren't so much unlucky not to come away with a win so much as lucky that poor finishing let Besiktas down otherwise they may well have left very comfortable winners

I'm not one for stats but I do think our 9 shots on goal to their 24 is a fair reflection of how much more they pushed us in the final third than we did them, they also put in more tackles and had more possession. That in itself doesn't always tell the true story but in this case it seems to me it did

We can look at scraps that might be positives although for me I don't think there were too many positives in either Townsend or Bentalab's performances, but that is what they at best may be, save Hugo no one really shone last night, our football was scrappy, we posed far less threat the opposition and we were lucky to grab a point.

If it was a one off then it's easier to have some perspective and to write it off as one of those days, but last night's performances was closer to the norm of our games to date and we really have to do a lot better

 

[chinaman]

Does it occur that we've bought badly last summer? The players don't seem to fit AVB, Dim Wit and now Pochie.

 

[UbeAstard]

, the number of times Townsend came in to try and take a shot when there were far better options was criminal. If I were Soldado I would feel dejected and pissed off too. Get the f*cking ball in to the striker in the box and let him do his job!

I dont remember him having a shot last night, cant remember a single one. He did come inside and tried to make room for the shot several times but it wasnt happening so he laid it off. Soldado's issues are there who ever plays with him, they arent specific to Townsend playing at all.

 

[UbeAstard]

That wa

Sherwood said on ITV that Pooch likes the counter attacking style <at home> and the fans are just going to have to get used to it.

But I'm not sure this is the problem - counter attacking is fast and incisive. That is hardly us.

For me the problem is that we are set up to defend against the counter attack - hog possession without doing anything with the ball, never committing players forward, 2 to 3 defensive midfielders, and one isolated striker.
We are on the back foot and invite pressure.

Having said that, it was an entertaining game with lots of attacking football. I think we fans just need to get used to the reality that it is not us that are going to be doing the attacking and entertaining.

As been said already that wasnt our first team and I believe it was theirs. They look a good side and their pressing was organised and looks like something we should aspire to. They were organised defensively too and in good numbers and shape wether we tried through the middle or down the sides.

 

[UbeAstard]

I think Poch has to take the bulk of the blame. I understand he wants to use his squad and give players a rest but you can't change so many players so frequently and expect to build cohesion in a team

.....
......... It might be early days but he really needs to start delivering some results and decent performances soon because the insipid stuff dished up so far can't be continued without the press starting to turn on him and that will can have a bad impact if the team is then under the microscope

Sunday was already a critical game because of the comparisons that will be made, Poch really needs to get his act together and try and instill some drive, desire and energy into the team, lets hope he can deliver

The changing for league games and midweek games I totally understand and agree with. I dont agree we need to be concerned yet so your implications about Sundays 'critical game' I dont agree with. As you say its early days and he HAS to have time. I hope and beleive he is here for the long haul.

 

[Locotoro]

I dont remember him having a shot last night, cant remember a single one. He did come inside and tried to make room for the shot several times but it wasnt happening so he laid it off. Soldado's issues are there who ever plays with him, they arent specific to Townsend playing at all.

Yesterday, Townsend attempted two shots from distance (one incredibly wasteful) but, as you rightly pointed out, it was the way he came inside time and time again looking for the shot where he could have put the ball into the attackers first time. I was referring to him with reference to the season as a whole rather than yesterday specifically.

A striker like Soldado needs to have the ball put in areas where he can attack it effectively, to say he needs to be more rounded or having such a striker is a liability as some might argue is nonsense.

Just as you wouldn't expect Messi to be effective receiving the long ball and playing a target man role we shouldn't expect Soldado to score when he's given no service. You need to play to the relative strengths of your players.

 

[Chedozie]

Yesterday, Townsend attempted two shots from distance (one incredibly wasteful) but, as you rightly pointed out, it was the way he came inside time and time again looking for the shot where he could have put the ball into the attackers first time. I was referring to him with reference to the season as a whole rather than yesterday specifically.

A striker like Soldado needs to have the ball put in areas where he can attack it effectively, to say he needs to be more rounded or having such a striker is a liability as some might argue is nonsense.

Just as you wouldn't expect Messi to be effective receiving the long ball and playing a target man role we shouldn't expect Soldado to score when he's given no service. You need to play to the relative strengths of your players.

Very true, Soldado is a good striker, but he is a penalty box player and our team rarely puts the ball in the penalty box.

He is a similar player to Lineker, who Venables based his attack around, AVB or Sherwood didn't base our attack around Soldado and Poch isn't going to. He's just at the wrong club.

 

[xtrac]

This is exactly the way i feel on the whole situation. Giving a manager time is all well and good and God knows we need stability on this, but that said nothing has in general improved whether it be defending, supply from midfield or attack.

Can anyone truly say that in general any of the one hundred and thirty odd million spent on players over the past three seasons has improved this Spurs side?

The football being produced is slow, ponderous, predictable and boring with little if any end product. Ade and Soldado have not become poor overnight and have offered hardly any threat all season.

For a manager of vision and of implementing a specific system i am starting to wonder Poch is struggling? How can he see a player like Chiriches struggle game after game and yet still persist with him?

Early days maybe, but i would expect to see some improvement from pre-season. I have seen little so far this season against sides (except Liverpool) that we should consider anything other than three pointers.

Poch can be as angry as he wants but enough of the rhetoric and how about some evidence of intent?

Exactly, this he needs time i keep hearing/reading, kinda irks me, surely he should of implemented his style on the players by now, Pullis turned Palace round in a short period of time, as did H when we were drifting, countless managers i can think of have stamped there mark on a side quicker than we are seeing, exactly how long are we expected to wait before Poch gets the players out of the AVB mind set?

Sherwood turned it round quick, but the defending was suspect, but at least it was enjoyable to watch, granted he upset a few but i kinda liked the no nonsense SAF attitude, obviously the slating in public was a bit much, but ffs the players need a kick up the arse.

I can honestly see Poch walking away at this rate, there is something deep rooted wrong at the club that needs fixing.

 

[Gaz_Gammon]

Exactly, this he needs time i keep hearing/reading, kinda irks me, surely he should of implemented his style on the players by now, Pullis turned Palace round in a short period of time, as did H when we were drifting, countless managers i can think of have stamped there mark on a side quicker than we are seeing, exactly how long are we expected to wait before Poch gets the players out of the AVB mind set?

Sherwood turned it round quick, but the defending was suspect, but at least it was enjoyable to watch, granted he upset a few but i kinda liked the no nonsense SAF attitude, obviously the slating in public was a bit much, but ffs the players need a kick up the arse.

I can honestly see Poch walking away at this rate, there is something deep rooted wrong at the club that needs fixing.

Nice observations.

Time will tell, and Poch needs this in spades. That said some semblance of a system, style and intent has to come soon. Some evidence of progress has to be seen to be occurring, but so far after a good few games in charge it's difficult to see any significant difference in the laboured playing style between AVB, Sherwood or Poch.

Time will tell no doubt, but on Thursday some of the natives were already getting restless.

 

[CheeseGromit]

Forget Chiriches Poch and look at the bigger picture for fuck sake.

Yeah, he's shit and he fucked up.
But our "style" of play is atrocious. We're boring to watch. We rarely ever look like scoring goals. We've won 1 of our last 7 and that was against a championship team.
Besiktas deserved at least a draw last night.

All this "I'm angry about that" and "I've given them a talking to" means fuck all if every week we turn up and look like we can't be bothered.

People are all cheering a draw at arsenal like it's a cup win last week. They were all over us and we were lucky they were as bad up front as we were.

Its pretty clear from other posts that you are not a fan of MoPo and you think there is a sliver bullet answer to the problems. It maybe getting rid of ENIC/Levy Hire (yet another) new manager, ask opposition to roll over because we are THFC or any other unreasonable change

Face the fact that we have sold our best players and not because we wanted to but they wanted to go That at the moment we donot have an outstanding game changing player And that teams think were are vulnerable so are giving it a real go against us

I thought Bestikas were a decent side and we played our 2nd string how were not disgraced Result against L'Arse last weekend is better than we have managed for some time at the Emirates and I didnt personally think we handled them badly.

In fact MoPo inherited most of the players and he is trying to mold them into something Something that takes time

Dont say I want my Spurs back or it was better under Redknapp. Spurs have been off the pace for years. And I know it was different for Redknapp; he had better players ( yet we still lost by a country mile at the Emirates.

Yeah I want it to be better but it wont happen until players get up to speed with whats going on But the support could be better

 

[JoeT]

Here we go again. I really sense a groundswell of anti-Pochetto feeling on this report....and the guy's only been here since the summer!
Last night our team didn't play particularily well but they didn't play too bad either. Their team was a good, slick outfit last night, and if Pochetto had pulled Chiriches early on we would have won it.
We are not scoring many goals, (and thank the Lord that Kane is having a purple patch) but everyone knows we should have bought a striker in the window; obviosly Pochetto wanted to bring one in but Management decided otherwise.
I agree he should have taken Chiriches off, but the game was what it was: an early Euro Cup game where Spurs should still qualify. What other games can he find out what certain players can do? As it stands, winning Prem. games is still our priority because we are still not out of the hunt.

 

[diamondlight]

Chiriches play last night reminded me of Kevin Scott.

He made one bad mistake and otherwise played OK.

 

[UbeAstard]

Yesterday, Townsend attempted two shots from distance (one incredibly wasteful) but, as you rightly pointed out, it was the way he came inside time and time again looking for the shot where he could have put the ball into the attackers first time. I was referring to him with reference to the season as a whole rather than yesterday specifically.

A striker like Soldado needs to have the ball put in areas where he can attack it effectively, to say he needs to be more rounded or having such a striker is a liability as some might argue is nonsense.

Just as you wouldn't expect Messi to be effective receiving the long ball and playing a target man role we shouldn't expect Soldado to score when he's given no service. You need to play to the relative strengths of your players.

I agree with that but disagree that his woes are down to Townsend, its just another excuse to have a go at Townsend (though I agree we need much better from him).