Pochettino says we are 'a bit behind' in pre-season

[Jonesey]

Don't panic! Don't panic!

stop reading the daily mirror



we can not match what Man C, Chelsea or even Man U can buy players for or what they pay. until now our stadium is a whole lot smaller, and our owners are not in a position to throw stupid money on transfers. if TV money does go down big time in the future, a lot of clubs will be heading down the Leeds route.



it was heavily noted Walker fell out with Poch, and everyone knows we can't compete.
yes we struggled in the CL, and it wasn't helped that we was never in a position to play our best XI, or should we have spent £500m just in case we did suffer injuries



you do realise the size of our stadium compared to everyone else don't you? and not a play thing to our owners. if they ever get fed up Man C and Chelsea will suffer unless another money man comes in



we didn't win anything the season before last, or the season before that, and yep we have lost Walker, but he has gone because 1, he fell out with Poch, 2, he wanted to move up closer to his family, and 3, he will get wages that we can't afford till we are settled in the new stadium



I saw an interview with Poch on Sky sometime last season, and he knows the situation. we are building a new stadium, investing in the area. if he was so pissed of he would of been gone by now, just ask Southampton fans



just being cynical, because there is not enough money in the club to go out and buy 11 world class players and pay them just in case we might get injuries

[/QUOTE]

I'm not suggesting we can - or even need to - buy 11 world class players, nor am I suggesting for a second that we can match what Man C, Chelsea or even Man U can buy players for or what they pay - but I am suggesting we need to sh!t or get off the pot in terms of re-assessing the wage cap in order to retain our best players - and invest in a back-up RB, a future replacement for Dembele and proven back-up for Kane this summer to show our current players (and Poch) that we have ambition.

And it's not like the money isn't there. According to the club's Financial Highlights in May revenue for the year ended 30 June 2016 was at a record level of £209.8m, an increase of 7% on the prior year (2015: £196.4m). This is an adjusted figure which takes into account planned expenditure on the stadium and it is likely to go up this year with the 2nd-place finish and the Walker sale.

 

[cliff jones]

People on here seem to have this delusional belief that we have a choice as to whether or not to buy big and keep up with City, Chelsea (and now Everton). We don't. We can only spend what we can afford. We cannot choose to be richer. We have limited resources. Levy's job is to make the most of them. That means being talent, rather than the finished product. That means buying late, when prices are lower. Yes, that comes at a cost, but it a calculated gamble determined by our finite resources.

If you take the fatalistic view that success always follows money (which is perhaps true over the longer term, but not season by season or club by club in any given season), then you have two choices:
1. Go and support a richer club and improve your chances of success.
2. Continue to support Tottenham and accept that our chances of success are lower due to our lack of wealth; but enjoy that success if/when it comes because it was our success, earned by us together.

I really don't mind which, but just spare me the "why can't we spend more" mantra.

another who thinks there's no middle, between keeping up with City/doing a Leeds and spending fokarl. It's not binary.

Trying to buy late doesn't always work out as an objective look at Levy's deadline deals proves beyond doubt.

Have a look at the books, and the European rich list of clubs. We can afford. can pay, but won't pay- no, not for Neymar but for emerging talent.

No point talking about last summer's market for fees or contracts, things have moved on. Levy's struggling to come to terms with it all.

 

[Shadydan]

Levy has to find a way for it to be going forward. It's not like wages are going to fall is it.

And the sad fact is that those 65, 75, 85k "shiny new contracts" have already become obsolete as more and more other clubs even aside from the likes of Chelsea, United, Arsenal and Liverpool (EG: Everton, Leicester even) have started to pay players 100k+ wages as standard.

We must bite the bullet and do the same or we'll start losing our top players the moment we cease to be challenging for the title.

And without investing in new players this summer - with Rose, Lamela, Dembele's recurring injury problems, Janssen suspect as Kane backup and the academy players still a way off being PL class - that is a very realistic possibility.

What's more, even if we do manage to spot and buy younger players who go on to successfully integrate into the first team, they (and their agents) will force a transfer once their wages get up to the 75, 85, 95k mark because they know Spurs won't pay them what they'll get elsewhere. IE: we remain a stepping stone club.

Re-assessing the wage cap is possibly as important as bringing in a new back-up RB, a future replacement for Dembele and proven back-up for Kane this summer.

They've become obsolete in the world of over-expectant and impatient fans and the media who try to push an agenda. If they've become so obsolete then firstly the players wouldn't have signed up at such a 'low' wage and secondly if they they would have signed they would have tried to force a move away by now, do you not think that their agents are talking to them all the time saying that you could earn x amount if you played for this team? Until these players start to complain about their wages then those wages are still very much still viable.

Yeah but this has been said a million times before, if we raise the wages of our best players then everyone else will expect a raise and it will create a domino affect, soon you'll have youth/reserve players demanding £30,£40,50k a week despite not kicking a ball in the first teams (like Chelsea) which will effectively decrease our wage to turnover ratio, we can't afford to do that.

Do you really think that we won't invest in anyone this summer, just because we haven't bought anyone, doesn't mean we won't buy anyone. Pochettino has continually said that people need to be patient and has hinted on more than one occasion that new faces will come in, if the window was closed and we hadn't bought anyone in then I'd worry but we still have a month to go before the window closes.

Think you need to chill out personally.

 

[whitesocks]

The most important thing over the next 5-10 years is staying in the prem and paying off the bulk of stadium loans.
It does not sound very derring-do, but get it slightly wrong and we might not recover for 25 years.

It doesn't mean the football has to be crap, just don't expect a CL squad, marquee signings or winning anything for a good while yet.

 

[Lilbaz]

Enic have earned over a billion pounds from the club for about 20m investment of their own money.

They should be supporting the team not just their bottom line.

Firstly how have they made a billion pounds?
And secondly how to you get the figure of them only investing £20m?

 

[Lighty64]

I'm not suggesting we can - or even need to - buy 11 world class players, nor am I suggesting for a second that we can match what Man C, Chelsea or even Man U can buy players for or what they pay - but I am suggesting we need to sh!t or get off the pot in terms of re-assessing the wage cap in order to retain our best players - and invest in a back-up RB, a future replacement for Dembele and proven back-up for Kane this summer to show our current players (and Poch) that we have ambition.

And it's not like the money isn't there. According to the club's Financial Highlights in May revenue for the year ended 30 June 2016 was at a record level of £209.8m, an increase of 7% on the prior year (2015: £196.4m). This is an adjusted figure which takes into account planned expenditure on the stadium and it is likely to go up this year with the 2nd-place finish and the Walker sale.

yes we do need a back up RB

Dembele replacement? I thought Winks was outstanding last season bar 1 game.

a proven back up to Kane? a proven back up will not want to sit on the bench. at a guess I would reckon you was 1 shouting sell Son, what a waste of 22m. how do you know Janssen won't be a lot better this season? he has had a full preseason, scored a very good goal from open play v Roma

every single player if they went to Liverpool or Arsenal would get 30k plus a week, every player would at least double their money if they went to the other 3, so how can we compete. if they weren't happy with what they get they would of been off by now.

as @Shadydan has mentioned, if you was to give Kane a 50k pay rise in hope he would be happy, then Lloris wants 1, then the rest of the squad wants a sufficient pay rise, and so on and so on.

it doesn't matter how much you pay your players, or in our position on the finances table it doesn't guarantee you a trophy, there isn't enough trophies to go around.

when it comes to getting signings in early, quality ones, teams like the 5 above us get involved in the same player, a bit like Willian, and until the last 2 seasons where we have all of a sudden come to the races for real, all of a sudden people like yourself want us to change our wage cap, but the only way you do that is match the top teams, and there is no way we can do that.

will those players all except a massive drop if they where to fail next season in getting in the top4, if we could pay them lots more now?

at the moment there are 7 teams really fighting for 4 places and 3 trophies, and that's not to say someone can't do a Leicester.

 

[cliff jones]

what depresses me the most is the queue of posters suggesting that just about every decent player with an established reputation or a very promising yound talent is way beyond our reach.

In every era I've been watching the Spurs, we have signed stars, only now under ENIC has this mentality developed. I'm very happy to continue to buy potential, or players with a year to go on their deals- while the stadium goes up. For every Wanyama there will be an Njie. But getting no-one in at all, who will be ready to go when the season kicks off is a nonsense. Especially after letting Walker go. People at the top are paid handsomely to get the right deals done. When they do well they get the plaudits, when they don't they don't.

 

[Everlasting Seconds]

The Leeds/Wimbledon/Portsmouth analogy is so crazy superficial as a way of arguing, it's laughable.

In the annual accounts, the value of our squad is 100m. So when you have a look at assets, liabilities, and equity (as I'm sure somebody who pulls the "Leeds"-card have done), keep in mind the squad value.

Now, let's have a quick assessment of the actual market value of our squad in today's market. We sold one starting player for 50M. I'd say, a squad value of 700-800M is plausible in today's market.

Now, compare that to Leeds/Wimbledon/Portsmouth. Their problem was, they didn't actually have anything to sell of anything in the remote proximity to the value of even our singular most valuable player.

If worst come to worst, we could sell one fudging amazing star, and keep us floating financially.

Now, this is not me arguing that we should take a financial gamble just because we can. Of course not. What I'm arguing that when you pull the Leeds-card, know what you are talking about, and maybe find a better way to argue your point.

With the present squad market value, it is more likely that a meteor hits the earth and lands exactly on the site of the new stadium opening day, than Spurs going under due to having over-exceeded financially by a few millions.

 

[Lilbaz]

what depresses me the most is the queue of posters suggesting that just about every decent player with an established reputation or a very promising yound talent is way beyond our reach.

In every era I've been watching the Spurs, we have signed stars, only now under ENIC has this mentality developed. I'm very happy to continue to buy potential, or players with a year to go on their deals- while the stadium goes up. For every Wanyama there will be an Njie. But getting no-one in at all, who will be ready to go when the season kicks off is a nonsense. Especially after letting Walker go. People at the top are paid handsomely to get the right deals done. When they do well they get the plaudits, when they don't they don't.

Is dele not a star? Kane?
Under sugar we spent more than arsenal on players and almost as much as liverpool. Where did that get us?
We invested in our academy/training ground, should we instead have bought players?
Yes we have a lack of trophies but we are probably the best spurs team since the 60's.
Trophies are a problem. But we have been to 3 league cup finals under enic and lost our last 7 fa cup finals. Which you have to say is unlucky. The last two years we have challenged for the league.
We are spending £800m on the ndp, that is a lot of money.

We will buy players but levy wants to make every penny count both in fee, wages and age of player so if he doesn't work out then we sell on with little loss. Last year e didn't do that and got sissoko at poch's request, how well did that work out?

 

[cliff jones]

Is dele not a star? Kane?
Under sugar we spent more than arsenal on players and almost as much as liverpool. Where did that get us?
We invested in our academy/training ground, should we instead have bought players?
Yes we have a lack of trophies but we are probably the best spurs team since the 60's.
Trophies are a problem. But we have been to 3 league cup finals under enic and lost our last 7 fa cup finals. Which you have to say is unlucky. The last two years we have challenged for the league.
We are spending £800m on the ndp, that is a lot of money.

We will buy players but levy wants to make every penny count both in fee, wages and age of player so if he doesn't work out then we sell on with little loss. Last year e didn't do that and got sissoko at poch's request, how well did that work out?

there's loads in there mate that many including me would contest, no way we spent more than the Arse, in that crucial era, whether fees and/or wages. But they are a better example than the oil clubs, in that the insights of Wenger and the support of Dein landed Viera, Henry and Anelka and others for three eigths of fook all, which is another example of how a team needs to be blended, and a squad refreshed, season on season. Fergie did it, over and over again. You can find a yang for every ying because every era will bring those who succeed and those who fail. We are missing a golden opporunity to kick on this summer...

I said I accept the stadium point, who couldn't- but that doesn't mean we can't pick up a copule of shrewd signings before the season kicks off.

 

[mawspurs]

All those asking for the wage cap to be raised obviously didn't read the article on this Site a few days back that explained we are the second highest bonus payers in the league. So while the wage is not as high as other teams if the team does well then the bonuses compensate for that.

 

[Mustard]

Firstly how have they made a billion pounds?
And secondly how to you get the figure of them only investing £20m?

Simple math.

 

[Lilbaz]

Simple math.

Sorry mustard i love you to bits but both are wrong.
Enic bought a 29% stake in spurs in 2001. Lewis and levy at the time only owned 52% of enic.
Since then they bought more stakes in both enic and through enic 85% of spurs (think it was over £65m in all, don't quote me though).
Lewis a couple of years ago invested a further £50m directly into spurs to help with clearing our debt so that we could secure funding for the new stadium. Some of that funding was supplied by tavistok (another company that lewis owns). This was revealed in levy's letter to khan (mayor) when asking about aditional funding for transport etc...

The value of spurs may have increased over the years but that will only be realised if they sell.

 

[Mustard]

Sorry mustard i love you to bits but both are wrong.
Enic bought a 29% stake in spurs in 2001. Lewis and levy at the time only owned 52% of enic.
Since then they bought more stakes in both enic and through enic 85% of spurs (think it was over £65m in all, don't quote me though).
Lewis a couple of years ago invested a further £50m directly into spurs to help with clearing our debt so that we could secure funding for the new stadium. Some of that funding was supplied by tavistok (another company that lewis owns). This was revealed in levy's letter to khan (mayor) when asking about aditional funding for transport etc...

The value of spurs may have increased over the years but that will only be realised if they sell.

Dude, I love you too x but without going into this massively at this time of night. My understanding is they paid Sugar about 42m for his shares.

They then made the shares worthless for the fans who had some and forced a buy in the intention of building a stadium as they said it needed total control to get non disclosure to get the best deal from the banks to fund this.

Tbf they have done this, albeit 10 years later than they said would. But it's all leveraged. They are not spending a penny out of their own pockets.

Our net spend over this time is about 20m. Again, it's late. So don't quote me on this.

Levys wages are the highest as a chairman in th pl at 2.5m+ a year so you can see why I'm saying their meagre outlay has resulted in them getting a billion pound minimum profit on this (they want 1.5bn) for Spurs.

Good business management. But that's all we are to them, an asset stripping company has made money on us. And they will sell in two years.

They have spent nothing and will get a cool billion minimums.

We've not won a major trophy since 1991

 

[Jonesey]

yes we do need a back up RB

Dembele replacement? I thought Winks was outstanding last season bar 1 game.

a proven back up to Kane? a proven back up will not want to sit on the bench. at a guess I would reckon you was 1 shouting sell Son, what a waste of 22m. how do you know Janssen won't be a lot better this season? he has had a full preseason, scored a very good goal from open play v Roma

every single player if they went to Liverpool or Arsenal would get 30k plus a week, every player would at least double their money if they went to the other 3, so how can we compete. if they weren't happy with what they get they would of been off by now.

as @Shadydan has mentioned, if you was to give Kane a 50k pay rise in hope he would be happy, then Lloris wants 1, then the rest of the squad wants a sufficient pay rise, and so on and so on.

it doesn't matter how much you pay your players, or in our position on the finances table it doesn't guarantee you a trophy, there isn't enough trophies to go around.

when it comes to getting signings in early, quality ones, teams like the 5 above us get involved in the same player, a bit like Willian, and until the last 2 seasons where we have all of a sudden come to the races for real, all of a sudden people like yourself want us to change our wage cap, but the only way you do that is match the top teams, and there is no way we can do that.

will those players all except a massive drop if they where to fail next season in getting in the top4, if we could pay them lots more now?

at the moment there are 7 teams really fighting for 4 places and 3 trophies, and that's not to say someone can't do a Leicester.

Firstly, as good as he is, Winks is a way off being Dembele and a different kind of player.

Secondly, Son always looked like he would come good, given a season, which he did - whereas Jansen just hasn't looked like that. I really, really hope he does - but it's a huge risk. If Kane gets injured we are not in a great position with only Janssen as back-up if he's failed to score by that point of the season.

Of course I know it's hard to find someone who will play second fiddle to him, but as Poch said yesterday he needs competition to keep him on his toes. Even Poch has just said we need competition for our best players so I don't know why you're having a go at me for mentioning it.

Thirdly, revising a salary-cap that is lower than several mid-table teams' in order to pay your best players more to keep them happier doesn't guarantee a trophy but it gives you damn sight better a chance of winning one than if they leave.

And they haven't been off by now because we've been competing for the title the last two seasons. No investment this summer, a 6th place finish and relatively low wages will ensure they WILL be off next summer, guaranteed.

 

[Jonesey]

They've become obsolete in the world of over-expectant and impatient fans and the media who try to push an agenda. If they've become so obsolete then firstly the players wouldn't have signed up at such a 'low' wage and secondly if they they would have signed they would have tried to force a move away by now, do you not think that their agents are talking to them all the time saying that you could earn x amount if you played for this team? Until these players start to complain about their wages then those wages are still very much still viable.

Yeah but this has been said a million times before, if we raise the wages of our best players then everyone else will expect a raise and it will create a domino affect, soon you'll have youth/reserve players demanding £30,£40,50k a week despite not kicking a ball in the first teams (like Chelsea) which will effectively decrease our wage to turnover ratio, we can't afford to do that.

Do you really think that we won't invest in anyone this summer, just because we haven't bought anyone, doesn't mean we won't buy anyone. Pochettino has continually said that people need to be patient and has hinted on more than one occasion that new faces will come in, if the window was closed and we hadn't bought anyone in then I'd worry but we still have a month to go before the window closes.

Think you need to chill out personally.

Well thank you for the advice. I guess we'll see won't we. I really hope I'm wrong. But given that Levy has apparently already screwed three deals for three players where fees and wages were agreed this summer (one of them being Foyth) by trying to squeeze more out of the deal at the last minute it's not looking good.

One things for sure, if we don't sign anyone who Poch actually wants (unlike Sossoko who was a last-minute-Levy signing and one which every Newcastle fan p!ssed themselves laughing at), he will NOT be happy.

 

[Shadydan]

Well thank you for the advice. I guess we'll see won't we. I really hope I'm wrong. But given that Levy has apparently already screwed three deals for three players where fees and wages were agreed this summer (one of them being Foyth) by trying to squeeze more out of the deal at the last minute it's not looking good.

One things for sure, if we don't sign anyone who Poch actually wants (unlike Sossoko who was a last-minute-Levy signing and one which every Newcastle fan p!ssed themselves laughing at), he will NOT be happy.

What deals are you talking about and what evidence do you have?

 

[Lighty64]

Firstly, as good as he is, Winks is a way off being Dembele and a different kind of player.

Secondly, Son always looked like he would come good, given a season, which he did - whereas Jansen just hasn't looked like that. I really, really hope he does - but it's a huge risk. If Kane gets injured we are not in a great position with only Janssen as back-up if he's failed to score by that point of the season.

Of course I know it's hard to find someone who will play second fiddle to him, but as Poch said yesterday he needs competition to keep him on his toes. Even Poch has just said we need competition for our best players so I don't know why you're having a go at me for mentioning it.

Thirdly, revising a salary-cap that is lower than several mid-table teams' in order to pay your best players more to keep them happier doesn't guarantee a trophy but it gives you damn sight better a chance of winning one than if they leave.

And they haven't been off by now because we've been competing for the title the last two seasons. No investment this summer, a 6th place finish and relatively low wages will ensure they WILL be off next summer, guaranteed.

yes and Poch also mentioned Morata didn't want to sign due to Kane.

those clubs that pay more for 1 or 2 players don't have a squad full that deserve a raise, that's why the same teams in the finance league that are above us, are the only teams above us in the pay league to.

well we invested last season, only Wanyama was a success, how do we know that any signing will be a success and we don't end up 6th anyway.

there is no guarantee if we were to double our wages next season for every player, or if we went out and buy the 3 players you believe we need, that we will finish in the top 4. if money guaranteed anything we would finish 6th every season.

 

[whitesocks]

One things for sure, if we don't sign anyone who Poch actually wants (unlike Sossoko who was a last-minute-Levy signing and one which every Newcastle fan p!ssed themselves laughing at), he will NOT be happy.

Sorry but MP is the manager these days, and he ultimately decides who joins the club. And he was very excited about Sissoko joining us.
Levy would be quite within his rights to ask MP to help move Sissoko on nicely, and not to just banish him, if he wants another record signing this window.

 

[Jonesey]

yes and Poch also mentioned Morata didn't want to sign due to Kane.

those clubs that pay more for 1 or 2 players don't have a squad full that deserve a raise, that's why the same teams in the finance league that are above us, are the only teams above us in the pay league to.

well we invested last season, only Wanyama was a success, how do we know that any signing will be a success and we don't end up 6th anyway.

there is no guarantee if we were to double our wages next season for every player, or if we went out and buy the 3 players you believe we need, that we will finish in the top 4. if money guaranteed anything we would finish 6th every season.

A) I'm not suggesting we double anyone's wages
And
B) Chelsea, Man City, Man U, Arsenal, Everton, Liverpool and other clubs like Leicester and West Ham obviously feel that investing in players will give them a better chance of getting into Europe otherwise why would they?

It's all a gamble but you've got to be in it to win it.