Pochettino's tactics did not help vs Liverpool

[sausage]

Put the blame in the chairman's office.
I have no doubt poch would have wanted 2-3 players in the summer and got short changed, just like many managers before him and many to come after him

Contrary to all the evidence, but go ahead.

 

[Metalhead]

Contrary to all the evidence, but go ahead.

The January window will be telling, i.e. if we are in for players although it's likely to be even more of a horrible window than the summer one was. We'll never know for sure how Poch felt about the summer one just gone. It's likely he must have been a bit frustrated but he's too professional to moan or make excuses like other managers would.

 

[sausage]

The January window will be telling, i.e. if we are in for players although it's likely to be even more of a horrible window than the summer one was. We'll never know for sure how Poch felt about the summer one just gone. It's likely he must have been a bit frustrated but he's too professional to moan or make excuses like other managers would.

The problem is that I am not aware of one ex-spurs manager who has said Levy wouldn't spend money, but can evidence plenty of the opposite. It always seems like DL is a manifestation of our manager's worst attributes, when there's very little to suggest it.

I find it easier to believe that Poch simply didn't want to deal this summer, rather than a grand conspiracy where everyone at the club (including the players and those in the media who are close to info) turns around and says that Poch didn't want to sign anyone.


It's easy enough to circle back to the transfer window stuff, but the reality is - as ever - that we have plenty of players, and it's simply their performances that have been well below their abilities so far.

 

[Metalhead]

The problem is that I am not aware of one ex-spurs manager who has said Levy wouldn't spend money, but can evidence plenty of the opposite. It always seems like DL is a manifestation of our manager's worst attributes, when there's very little to suggest it.

I find it easier to believe that Poch simply didn't want to deal this summer, rather than a grand conspiracy where everyone at the club (including the players and those in the media who are close to info) turns around and says that Poch didn't want to sign anyone.


It's easy enough to circle back to the transfer window stuff, but the reality is - as ever - that we have plenty of players, and it's simply their performances that have been well below their abilities so far.

There wasn't a grand conspiracy, I don't think that anyone has suggested that. It seems really binary on here at times though - it's either, Daniel knows best, who are we to question him or Daniel is a skinflint and we'll never win anything whilst he's chairman.

The reality I would say is that he does provide a budget but unfortunately despite being relatively regular CL qualifiers now, it hasn't resulted in us signing superstars because the ante has now been upped by super rich owners. I don't think that holding out until the last moment in the hope that the selling club will give in is so effective anymore unfortunately because most premier league clubs are not desperate to sell. Also, Poch is not the type of manager to stockpile average players although unfortunately we are left with a few players that he may regret signing and we cannot sell for what presumably Daniel wants so the club is left paying their wages. I would say that it's not so much that Poch didn't want to sign anyone as anyone that Poch wanted to sign was out of our budget.

 

[Hoddle&Waddle]

The lack of signings plays a part but I also think tactically we've moved away from what made us so hard to play against. The 4-2-3-1 gave us numbers in the press and also width. The 2 upfront makes us far too narrow and also doesn't utilize Kane in his best position.

 

[sausage]

I would say that it's not so much that Poch didn't want to sign anyone as anyone that Poch wanted to sign was out of our budget.

Probably best in the category of 'anyone that Poch wanted to sign was unavailable', as that covers the signing that were potentially within budget, but prices set at a ridiculous fee that were intended to detract bidders

 

[Metalhead]

Probably best in the category of 'anyone that Poch wanted to sign was unavailable', as that covers the signing that were potentially within budget, but prices set at a ridiculous fee that were intended to detract bidders

That is the difficulty that we have now in that it's no longer good enough to sign the kind of players that we signed maybe 8, 9, 10 years ago but we are still out of the market for the level that we really want. I'm not angry that we didn't get a marquee player signed up for a debut in the new stadium as that was always more in the fans' minds than the club's intention. It was annoying to miss out on Grealish but I'm not even sure what the truth was with him now anyway as there seems to have been several versions - more than one seemingly from Bruce.

 

[TottenhamMattSpur]

Contrary to all the evidence, but go ahead.

Evidence?

 

[Spurs 1961]

I have not read the article as this site always opens up lots of unwanted windows. What I can say is that every season so far Poch has experimented with players and formations in the first couple of months of the season and then settled. I think with the emergence of Moura, the re-introduction slowly of injured players like Winks, Lamela and Wanyama plus finding out how much Dembele can do will mean some changes. Add to this Toby and Rose back in from the cold and we have a number of options to try.
Not saying I like it and don't believe formation has really been the problem ... Saturday it was just plain poor play ... but it seems to be the way Poch goes about his business

 

[Trix]

It's simply 4231

Isn't it just.

Remarkably the formation that has given us the most points over the last two seasons, is the one we are yet to play so far this season, and we haven't had one solid performance yet.

Poch needs o stop trying to win games from the bench play our best suited formation.

Keep it simple.

 

[Trix]

Put the blame in the chairman's office.
I have no doubt poch would have wanted 2-3 players in the summer and got short changed, just like many managers before him and many to come after him.
Liverpool were fitter and faster than us all over the pitch, and it was predictable.

Gone are the days when we had the youngest average age in the league, with the fittest players. Rose, Jan, Toby, Trippier all around their late 20's early 30's. Kane looks fucked. Eriksen is at his prime age now.
It's only Kane, Son, Lamela and Dele under 25 in the front positions.

If we can't out-fit teams any more we need to bring in younger fitter players to replace the older ones or change the philosphy

We were set up wrong. That has sod all to do with lack of incomings.

Now if Poch wanted to change pre season and the players we failed to get were to play that system I feel for him, but the fact remains he has changed the starting formation for every single game so far this season and we look a lot more dysfunctional and far less fluid because of it.

He is known for getting the best out of what he has, and improving players, not for being a tactical genius. Lets be honest at the moment he's not getting close to that. I'll accept some of that is down to the players not being fully at it fitness wise, and that we needed a couple in to freshen things up, but that is more reason to keep things simple. It may be too few changes in staffing levels as far as players in and out are concerned but there are far too many changes tactically. They are causing more problems than fatigue imo.

 

[Trix]

paraphrasing my earlier post:
1. The transfer window wasn't terrific in terms of getting in some needed cover
2. Poch has said several times since pre-season that he'd have to manage certain players and have lots of rotation the first period of the season because of the WC SF issue and all the call ups for the bloomin Nations Cup
3. Add to that the fact that several of the players who should have been available and fit/ fresh (eg Wanyama, Lamela) got injuries during pre/early season.
4. Silly suspensions
5. Incorporating the one player who seems fit and in form (LM)
6. Son going to Asia
7. Finally add in injuries to key players (eg Alli) and you have a situation where Poch has to manage the group and make shifts in formation.

If the group was somewhere close to fit (mentally and physically), I suspect our team would have been:
Hugo, Trippier, Sanchez, Toby, Verts, Davies, Wanyama, Eriksen, Alli, Son, Kane in a 3 (Sanchez, Toby, Verts), 3 (Trippier, Wanyama, Davies), 3 (Eriksen, Alli, Son), 1 (Kane).....or as some people like to reference it 5-1-3-1

Promise you, it would have been a different game. The difference between us and Pool now is that their top players look a LOT fresher because they weren't at the WC or left early.....its pretty relevant that Hendo is being used so sparingly.

In a funny way, the Alli injury, if it is 3-4 weeks may end up giving us a fresher player for the rest of the season.

Poch has done more for our club then anyone else since I started following the team in the late 1970's (and yes I know how amazing 1984 was!). He deserves more than our backing....he deserves a lot of latitude because he has earned such trust.

I think it's more the fact that they are a unit, playing exactly the same way as they have done for the last 2 years. They know their jobs inside and out, and know exactly who is where and what they are responsible for. Far too much emphasis is being put on tiredness imo. It's not like we are fading in games, we look confused and disorganised from the off.

 

[wrd]

We were set up wrong. That has sod all to do with lack of incomings.

Now if Poch wanted to change pre season and the players we failed to get were to play that system I feel for him, but the fact remains he has changed the starting formation for every single game so far this season and we look a lot more dysfunctional and far less fluid because of it.

He is known for getting the best out of what he has, and improving players, not for being a tactical genius. Lets be honest at the moment he's not getting close to that. I'll accept some of that is down to the players not being fully at it fitness wise, and that we needed a couple in to freshen things up, but that is more reason to keep things simple. It may be too few changes in staffing levels as far as players in and out are concerned but there are far too many changes tactically. They are causing more problems than fatigue imo.

I'd argue the fact we had no new incoming makes it even more ridiculous we don't seem to know our best formation or team yet.

 

[Trix]

I'd argue the fact we had no new incoming makes it even more ridiculous we don't seem to know our best formation or team yet.

Which barring Moura and Toby returning to the side should be blatantly obvious to the guy that has been coaching most of them for over 3 years or so.

 

[TottenhamMattSpur]

We were set up wrong. That has sod all to do with lack of incomings.

Now if Poch wanted to change pre season and the players we failed to get were to play that system I feel for him, but the fact remains he has changed the starting formation for every single game so far this season and we look a lot more dysfunctional and far less fluid because of it.

He is known for getting the best out of what he has, and improving players, not for being a tactical genius. Lets be honest at the moment he's not getting close to that. I'll accept some of that is down to the players not being fully at it fitness wise, and that we needed a couple in to freshen things up, but that is more reason to keep things simple. It may be too few changes in staffing levels as far as players in and out are concerned but there are far too many changes tactically. They are causing more problems than fatigue imo.

It's not just fatigue. It's having something different to what we had last season.
I think we're in danger of being too predictable as a result of making no notable changes.
Why is Poch changing things so much when the squad is the same?
I'd say it's to try to bring something new to the party, to make us less predictable but it's not working.

 

[Metalhead]

Yes

It's not just fatigue. It's having something different to what we had last season.
I think we're in danger of being too predictable as a result of making no notable changes.
Why is Poch changing things so much when the squad is the same?
I'd say it's to try to bring something new to the party, to make us less predictable but it's not working.

Yes, the predictability did seem to be an issue last season at times too. We looked pedestrian at times. I don't know what the answer is - hopefully Poch does!

 

[Trix]

It's not just fatigue. It's having something different to what we had last season.
I think we're in danger of being too predictable as a result of making no notable changes.
Why is Poch changing things so much when the squad is the same?
I'd say it's to try to bring something new to the party, to make us less predictable but it's not working.

Sorry but there is nothing wrong with being predictable as long as it's effective. Pool and City are very predictable as were we up until recently. Keep switching formations week in week out is not, and never has been a sign of confidence from the manager doing so.

 

[shelfboy68]

Sorry but there is nothing wrong with being predictable as long as it's effective. Pool and City are very predictable as were we up until recently. Keep switching formations week in week out is not, and never has been a sign of confidence from the manager doing so.

So why does he keep switching things around to prove a point perhaps just seems a bit pointless in doing so but then only he will know why.

 

[Trix]

So why does he keep switching things around to prove a point perhaps just seems a bit pointless in doing so but then only he will know why.

That there is the question we all want to know the answer to.

 

[double0]

Liverpool Man Utd Man City Arsenal Chelsea all play an exclusive formation. I get we need to be dynamic but right about now Poch needs to get back to basic 4231 IMO is the most flexible system anyway with Dier operating in the two mid we can switch tactics in game.

Losing to Liverpool is no shame! obviously we don't want to make that a habit , we beat them 4-1 last season and they still had a good season so we can surely do the same. What we desperately need to do is stop making silly mistakes, stop listening to reports suggesting Harry Kane is tried, Kane needs to up his fitness and get with the program and be more clinical.

People are free to disagree but for me our strongest team below in a 4231

Lloris

Aurier
Vertonghen
Sanchez
Rose

Dier
Dembele

Lamela
Alli
Eriksen

Kane

I know already what people will say Aurier Sanchez Lamela ahead of Trippier Alders Son/Moura.. for me we have good balance we the player selected the season is long and of course squad rotation will happen