Polish fans honor dead Varsovians

BehindEnemyLines

Twisting a Melon with the Rev. Black Grape
Joined
Apr 13, 2006
Messages
1,641
#21
Oh, such manipulation and no research...
Ok - the Ku Klux Klan photo was taken in Portugal, and Legia could not punish them as it is illegal for Portugese authorities to hand over personal data of people on their soil to bodies abroad (i.e to Poland). Moreover, the club issued a statement in which they say that despite selling tickets for the match against Lisbon in Warsaw and getting the personal data, the Portugese authorities also allowed Polish "fans" to buy them illegally outside the ground. I'm not excusing the behaviour, I'm saying that it is not representative of the spirit of the fans and the situational context is important. Also the picture is from 2012 - not recent.
The Kriegsmarine flag - the picture is was posted online in 2011, but is much older, so by no means a recent incident again. Also, if you point to definitive evidence that these are in fact Legia fans, I would be grateful. Hard as I tried, I couldn't make out their scarves. The last photo shows nothing.

You could post pictures of English fans fighting in the 90's and try to prove that they are representative of today's fans. Doesn't work that way.
You excuse the Warsaw fans as the pictures are a few years old, and yet you castigate the Germans when the Warsaw uprising was 70 odd!!! Surely if the recent photos aren't representative of Warsaw fans now, then how can the Warsaw uprising Germans be representative of Germans now?
 

Azazello

The Boney King of Nowhere
Joined
Aug 15, 2009
Messages
6,816
#22
These things do run deep though. The Dutch haven't forgiven the Germans really for the Hongerwinter of 1944/45 and someone I know saw a German registered car with 'bike thief' scratched into the paint work just a few weeks ago. I know as much from Dutch colleagues from my time in Rabobank.

The treatment meted out to the Poles was shockingly brutal even by the Nazis' standards and they should commemorate the Warsaw Uprising; futile (and brave) though it was. The Poles are the most represented in The Righteous Amongst The Nations and certainly have much to be proud of in that regard, even if a few wankers today don't get the irony of adopting Nazi iconography to bait and taunt others.

I'm surprised no-one mentioned the Soviets waiting till the Germans were done before they attacked.
 

alfie103

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 4, 2005
Messages
3,076
#23
This is an entirely different matter and I could list dozens of cases when we were betrayed by the Jews, after being the only country in Europe who gave them unsanctioned sanctuary. So much so, that Polish almost became Izrael's state tongue. You don't know our history and take a biased over-simplistic view of that behaviour. This is not the time and place for it, but study up on what the British authorities did with the Jews in the Channel Islands (the only occupied British territory), before lecturing to us about collaboration.
Did individuals collaborate, sure, but officially the Polish Government in Exile did no such thing, we handed out thousands of death sentences to those who did, and we had no Polish Governor in place.
No one is lecturing Poland on what they did and I don't think you can do anything but admire and respect the way the Polish people resisted the Nazis. What did the Channel Island authorities do with the Jewish Population?
 

Lilbaz

Just call me Baz
Joined
Apr 1, 2005
Messages
32,427
#24
Can't we just honour the dead and leave it at that?

Every nation and peoples have a bloody past and we have arseholes in every group.

People can be barbaric whatever their colour, religion, faith. We just have to try and rise above it and create a more tolerant world. The majority of people are kind and loving, if they weren't civilization would break down.
 

riggi

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 24, 2008
Messages
36,980
#25
Can't we just honour the dead and leave it at that?

Every nation and peoples have a bloody past and we have arseholes in every group.

People can be barbaric whatever their colour, religion, faith. We just have to try and rise above it and create a more tolerant world. The majority of people are kind and loving, if they weren't civilization would break down.
Pretty much. Lots of glass houses about in this world...
 

fortworthspur

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 12, 2007
Messages
4,890
#26
You must remember that unlike the communists, the NSDAP were elected by the German nation who supported their military conquests. There was a miniscule opposition so the narrative that the germans were somehow enslaved simply does not stand up to scrutiny. The germans loved Hitler and they supported him. You say Germans who served the nazi regime? I say show me the germans who didn't.
no argument, but I suspect we are all closer to that than we'd like to admit. I have no reason to believe Germans are inherently more evil than any other band of humanity. I think under the right circumstances that could happen again in jus about any location.
 
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