PSG vs Tottenham Hotspur Match Thread

[thinktank]

 

[Bus-Conductor]

Here you go ladies, an excellent post by @spurs9 in the yoof thread breaking down the second goal:

http://www.spurscommunity.co.uk/ind...-thread-2017-2018.129353/page-19#post-5528818

 

[Tottenham_God]

only played 45 mins of one pre season game perhaps you should work for the media

Is that the only game I've seen him play? hmm strange

 

[Clark28]

hope we see a back 5 of KWP Toby CCV Jan Davies at some stage this preseason.

Toby can keep the kids in check.

 

[heelspurs]

Here you go ladies, an excellent post by @spurs9 in the yoof thread breaking down the second goal:

http://www.spurscommunity.co.uk/ind...-thread-2017-2018.129353/page-19#post-5528818

Stills don't really do the play justice. People keep saying "we had possession" but during no point in the play did we have assured possession to be so 'cavalier' in his advancing upfield (considering Hugo kicked it to the other side). I am sure a more seasoned player would not have been caught out so badly. And yes, that is the catch as he is a youngster so we have to deal with the naiveté. But likewise I am not castigating him for the goal. The next time a situation happens like this and he recognizes it we will know that he has learned and matured. That is a good thing. But we need to fairly admit that he could have done better and not 'lamela' the situation because he is 'ours'.

This is one of those cases of "I was just following orders". Sure Poch wants the FB pushed up in these circumstances. But you can bet your ass that he would have felt KWP 'more ready' for first team action had he recognized the danger and followed Pastore in that novel situation. Because the interesting thing is Pastore movement wasn't smooth. He could see our 'possession' was in danger and moved accordingly. Had KWP recognized it he could have saved a goal and that would have been a huge feather in his cap. And likewise we would all feel even more relaxed and assured of his 1st team potential.

 

[DannyNZ]

Here you go ladies, an excellent post by @spurs9 in the yoof thread breaking down the second goal:

http://www.spurscommunity.co.uk/ind...-thread-2017-2018.129353/page-19#post-5528818

My reading of this is that CCV is out of position and so is KWP. Surprised Lloris and Vert allowed them to get so badly out of shape but both are in seriously bad positions.

 

[king26]

45 minutes pre season cannot be judged really

 

[Bus-Conductor]

Stills don't really do the play justice. People keep saying "we had possession" but during no point in the play did we have assured possession to be so 'cavalier' in his advancing upfield (considering Hugo kicked it to the other side). I am sure a more seasoned player would not have been caught out so badly. And yes, that is the catch as he is a youngster so we have to deal with the naiveté. But likewise I am not castigating him for the goal. The next time a situation happens like this and he recognizes it we will know that he has learned and matured. That is a good thing. But we need to fairly admit that he could have done better and not 'lamela' the situation because he is 'ours'.

This is one of those cases of "I was just following orders". Sure Poch wants the FB pushed up in these circumstances. But you can bet your ass that he would have felt KWP 'more ready' for first team action had he recognized the danger and followed Pastore in that novel situation. Because the interesting thing is Pastore movement wasn't smooth. He could see our 'possession' was in danger and moved accordingly. Had KWP recognized it he could have saved a goal and that would have been a huge feather in his cap. And likewise we would all feel even more relaxed and assured of his 1st team potential.

Walker got caught like this against West Ham a couple of real games ago. I've seen all our seasoned fb's at one time (or several) or another (the ManC game springs to mind too and Spurs9 gave the example of Walker against ManU earlier in the season) get caught up the pitch (or at least behind a through ball) when we have lost possession when playing out.

The stills show how exposed KWP was and how CCV was playing players inside. This had very little to do KWP's lack of experience, we've seen it all before from our seasoned fb's.

 

[Spurs 1961]

The attacking, pressing game we play has risks attached to it. the more players play with each other in real games the more they learn to anticipate each other and cover each other. During a season we will concede goals when teams get through us but look at the last two league seasons and overall how good our defensive record is. Attack for me always remains the best form of defence and I much prefer it to the aimless holding the ball letting other teams just attack you

 

[Shadydan]

lol at the way people are dissecting the goal, it's a friendly ffs

 

[Betha]

The stills show how exposed KWP was and how CCV was playing players inside. This had very little to do KWP's lack of experience, we've seen it all before from our seasoned fb's.

(to repeat myself from the youth thread)

If anything, this goal is down to the way we try to start play from goal kicks.

CCV has to cover far more ground than Verthongen to get into position (as the ball is played to the left from Lloris). When we immidiately lose control he has not been able to get into position, and thus has to make the choice of which danger to cover first If he simply rushes out, the player at the right of the PSG front three will be through on goal from a simple straight forward pass, so he makes the right choice in in covering that danger.

So, yes, CCV played them onside, but he could hardly have avoided that. Goals like this will happen every now and then when we try to play out like that (with those rather short punts from Lloris).

 

[Cornpattbuck]

Can we start dissecting Eriksen and Alderweireld's goals please? Boom.

 

[Kiedis]

I do love me an Eriksen body feint. Dribbling opponents without touching the ball is neat.
Also, the way Alderweireld hit that shot was so clean you could perform surgery on it.

 

[heelspurs]

Walker got caught like this against West Ham a couple of real games ago. I've seen all our seasoned fb's at one time (or several) or another (the ManC game springs to mind too and Spurs9 gave the example of Walker against ManU earlier in the season) get caught up the pitch (or at least behind a through ball) when we have lost possession when playing out.

The stills show how exposed KWP was and how CCV was playing players inside. This had very little to do KWP's lack of experience, we've seen it all before from our seasoned fb's.

If only this board had a reliable 'Walker Watcher' to remind us all of his positional errors and brain farts.

That goal was a complete clusterf*ck. Hugo kicked quickly before we had any chance to get into some kind of shape. It wasn't advantageous as PSG was pressed into our end. It was particularly bad because he wasn't playing to feet so we were not assured possession. It was actually pretty stupid and not his first time. This was actually the really bad decision as there were 8 PSG players pressing in our half. This is the same stupidity that leads to Liverpool punishing us.

Jan having properly split to the left channel was leaving Cavani unmarked. When dispossession occurs he is filling in for Davies who had to go challenge for the header. This resulted in CCV making a 'mature' choice to go to Cavani as he was free while Rabiot was advancing with the ball. People are killing CCV but I find that choice a good one but he could have denied the pass where without committing himself ie played it like more of a sweeper/Toby.

The loss of possession occurred because Onamah and GKN challenged for the same ball. It is difficult to see because his back is to use but actually Josh chests it down to GKN's feet from like 2 feet away with Alves on his back and another PSG player coming to double him. In hindsight Josh should have headed away (probably the biggest mistake of the bunch) because his close proximity to GKN further limited his options once receiving the ball (to fault GKN I would have like to have seen him fight a little harder for that ball and when he lost it he should have taken the player down). Were Josh to have headed it upfield and into the left channel then Janssen would have been able to challenge for it and turn PSG back toward their goal. Saw a prominent poster saying we were 70/30 to win possession. This is bullshit 'lamela-ing' from a youth fanboy. We were never favored for possession.

And all while this is going on KWP advances a few steps further upfield as GKN, clearly in danger, struggles to get the ball with Alves pushing away at him and Pastore perking up. To compound this KWP doesn't jet back he stops...then turns and jogs...and then turns on the blasters. He was slow to react to the danger. It does not matter who else in our history had been slow to react or out of position. Just because Walker did it doesn't give license to KWP to do it. That is unless you want some future someone popping up in every match thread reminding us. But in context of that complete clusterf*ck of a concession it is understandable that he was caught out of position. I would be less forgiving of his lack of recognition of 'job 1' of a FB and even more damning of his lack of effort to close.

So yeah, still picture don't do that play justice. I am in KWP's corner. On the whole he was good and I feel better about him from this showing and look forward to the next few games.

 

[hughy]

I do love me an Eriksen body feint. Dribbling opponents without touching the ball is neat.

The third goal away at Swansea was one of the best of the season for me. Amazing to be able to take someone out of the game without even touching the ball.

 

[Disconosebleed]

Surely there's a happy medium here. Those who are writing Carter-Vickers and Walker-Peters off based on one game are obviously jumping the gun massively, but equally I don't see the value in trying to subvert reality by pretending either of them played well. It's ok for a young player to play badly without it being proof that they can't cut it in the first team - if Pochettino has deemed them worthy of minutes on the pre-season tour then he obviously considers them to be good enough to play for us; just give them time and see how they get on.

FWIW I thought both of them - and also Oakley-Boothe - looked well below the level set by the established players, but that doesn't mean they can't reach that level in the future, or even that they were just below-par performances by players who are already capable. I'm a little more worried about Carter-Vickers because in the handful of first-team games he's played I think he's looked slightly short every time, but even then it's only a few games so it's too early to write him off, let alone doing it based on one match against strong opposition.

 

[JimmyG2]

Every player, young, old, experienced and inexperienced
will make errors at any time.
First game of the season and a competitive one against good opponents
will expose many faults.
That is surely the point of pre-season.

The youngsters showed good attitude,skill and confidence
and were exposed by the faults of others and the skill of the opponents.
and their own inexperience.
Experience is hard earned
Do we want to persevere and find more Harry Kane's who wont (ever) leave us
and these boys are well on the road to success with Tottenham
or or are we going back to shelling out 20 million a pop
on half decent players who may or may not settle,
suit the programme, like the food or whatever.
And are not 'ones of our own'
which counts a lot in my book
(It's titled 'Spurs win Premiership with young team mainly own grown'
Not quite complete by available from all good bookstores soon.
These are back up squad players (except the other Harry)
being groomed in one of the most successful Premiership teams
of the century and hardly a false penny spent.
I said 'Hardly'.
Give the boys a break, some encouragement and support
and see where we are at Xmas.
Then send them all on loan if necessary in Poch's judgement
and keep the chequebook in a locked draw in a secret location.
Buy under 20yr.old promising youngsters only.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

(to repeat myself from the youth thread)

If anything, this goal is down to the way we try to start play from goal kicks.

CCV has to cover far more ground than Verthongen to get into position (as the ball is played to the left from Lloris). When we immidiately lose control he has not been able to get into position, and thus has to make the choice of which danger to cover first If he simply rushes out, the player at the right of the PSG front three will be through on goal from a simple straight forward pass, so he makes the right choice in in covering that danger.

So, yes, CCV played them onside, but he could hardly have avoided that. Goals like this will happen every now and then when we try to play out like that (with those rather short punts from Lloris).

That all sounds perfectly plausible to me, but at the minute I don't have access to a replay of the event. But if CCV steps up surely that renders the through ball you suggest void as the player would be offside ?

Either way, from a rb perspective we've seen our far more experienced fb's all get caught like this numerous times, it's a bit bogus hanging it on KWP's inexperience when we've seen Walker and Rose get caught with their pants down numerous times.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

If only this board had a reliable 'Walker Watcher' to remind us all of his positional errors and brain farts.

That goal was a complete clusterf*ck. Hugo kicked quickly before we had any chance to get into some kind of shape. It wasn't advantageous as PSG was pressed into our end. It was particularly bad because he wasn't playing to feet so we were not assured possession. It was actually pretty stupid and not his first time. This was actually the really bad decision as there were 8 PSG players pressing in our half. This is the same stupidity that leads to Liverpool punishing us.

Jan having properly split to the left channel was leaving Cavani unmarked. When dispossession occurs he is filling in for Davies who had to go challenge for the header. This resulted in CCV making a 'mature' choice to go to Cavani as he was free while Rabiot was advancing with the ball. People are killing CCV but I find that choice a good one but he could have denied the pass where without committing himself ie played it like more of a sweeper/Toby.

The loss of possession occurred because Onamah and GKN challenged for the same ball. It is difficult to see because his back is to use but actually Josh chests it down to GKN's feet from like 2 feet away with Alves on his back and another PSG player coming to double him. In hindsight Josh should have headed away (probably the biggest mistake of the bunch) because his close proximity to GKN further limited his options once receiving the ball (to fault GKN I would have like to have seen him fight a little harder for that ball and when he lost it he should have taken the player down). Were Josh to have headed it upfield and into the left channel then Janssen would have been able to challenge for it and turn PSG back toward their goal. Saw a prominent poster saying we were 70/30 to win possession. This is bullshit 'lamela-ing' from a youth fanboy. We were never favored for possession.

And all while this is going on KWP advances a few steps further upfield as GKN, clearly in danger, struggles to get the ball with Alves pushing away at him and Pastore perking up. To compound this KWP doesn't jet back he stops...then turns and jogs...and then turns on the blasters. He was slow to react to the danger. It does not matter who else in our history had been slow to react or out of position. Just because Walker did it doesn't give license to KWP to do it. That is unless you want some future someone popping up in every match thread reminding us. But in context of that complete clusterf*ck of a concession it is understandable that he was caught out of position. I would be less forgiving of his lack of recognition of 'job 1' of a FB and even more damning of his lack of effort to close.

So yeah, still picture don't do that play justice. I am in KWP's corner. On the whole he was good and I feel better about him from this showing and look forward to the next few games.

The point was, you'd suggested a seasoned RB wouldn't have done the same thing, but they constantly have in Poch's system including very recently in a game that cost us dearly. That was the point I was making, and as others have said, the way we play, we do leave ourselves open to this kind of situation, especially with a keeper that habitually puts us under pressure with his poor distribution choices. I don't believe KWP could have done much different, and as the official recorder of Walker's official molotov clusterfuck collection, I have even exonerated him from some of these instances - ManU own goal being one for example - if not all (West Ham harder to forgive).

 

[heelspurs]

The point was, you'd suggested a seasoned RB wouldn't have done the same thing, but they constantly have in Poch's system including very recently in a game that cost us dearly. That was the point I was making, and as others have said, the way we play, we do leave ourselves open to this kind of situation, especially with a keeper that habitually puts us under pressure with his poor distribution choices. I don't believe KWP could have done much different, and as the official recorder of Walker's official molotov clusterfuck collection, I have even exonerated him from some of these instances - ManU own goal being one for example - if not all (West Ham harder to forgive).

I see, apologies. Crap, that would have saved me the 'starting price' sized entry had I understood you point. I will wait for you to re-watch the play. If I get a wild hair I may even post a gif. I think the play will help him because we were punished. Let's hope.