Race for the Top 4 - 2018/19

[Flashspur]

Can’t see the scousers losing this. They have momentum and Fernandinho is crocked. The psychological high ground has been taken away from Guardiola. They don’t look invincible because they have lost belief. Liverpool need someone to smack them around but it won’t be the Mancs.

 

[glacierSpurs]

Maybe some unfavourable decisions to go against the scousers tonight and their cracks will show.

 

[mark87]

Maybe some unfavourable decisions to go against the scousers tonight and their cracks will show.

With van dijk headbutting the referee and getting a 3-year ban.

 

[Deleted member 27995]

Mental fortitude will probably be Liverpool's undoing this season more than anything else. It is their's to lose.

 

[rossdapep]

Interesting stat that.
Flip it around though, how many teams have lost 5 of their first 20 and gone on to win it?

I think it may have happened a couple of times under Fergie, maybe not 5 exactly but I do remember a couple of times United starting really slowly and suffering a few dodgy defeats only to be superior in the second half and cruise it. But that also coincides with the other challenger feeling the pressure and dropping lots of points.

 

[greaves]

Maybe some unfavourable decisions to go against the scousers tonight and their cracks will show.

as it were...

 

[LexingtonSpurs]

"A statistic to try to digest before tonight’s mouthwatering clash at the Etihad Stadium: only once in the Premier League era have a team with at least 15 wins in their first 20 matches failed to win the title — yet that is the unhappy fate that awaits two of Liverpool, Manchester City and Tottenham Hotspur this season."

 

[rossdapep]

I think it may have happened a couple of times under Fergie, maybe not 5 exactly but I do remember a couple of times United starting really slowly and suffering a few dodgy defeats only to be superior in the second half and cruise it. But that also coincides with the other challenger feeling the pressure and dropping lots of points.

To back this up.....

94/95 season - United had 4 defeats at this point, they went on to lose only twice more but lost the title because they drew with West Ham on the final day.

95/96 season - United had 5 defeats by this point (including a 4-1 rout from us) only to lose once more and lift the title from Newcastle.
They won 13, drew twice and lost once in their final 16 games.

96/97 season - In their first 21 games they drew 8 times and lost three games on the bounce to leave them down in 5th. They went on to lose two more but lifted the title again.

97/98 season - Had only lost three times by January and were top but then they had a huge drop in form which allowed Arsenal to catch up and lost the title that year.

98/99 season - Once again their first 21 games produced 11 wins, 8 draws and 3 defeats by the NY and they were down in 4th, yet they still went on to win the title.

01/02 season - They had lost 6 by January and they went on to finish 3rd - they were actually 9th early December.

02/03 season - Probably the best example. They had lost 5 by NY and were 3rd, and from what I recall people were ruling them out at the time. However they went on to be unbeaten in the second half of the season in the second half, drawing just three games. They finished champions.

In contrast Arsenal had a not too perfect start in the.....

01/02 season - 3 defeats and 6 draws in their opening 21, but then they went on to not lose another game and became champions.

The negative aspect for us here is that the point tally at this point of the season is higher (we'd probably be top at this point on a fair few of these seasons above) which means it's likely to be higher at the end too. We need Liverpool's form to capitulate, which CAN happen if they suffer injuries, get too comfortable or feel any pressure - we will have to see. But there is evidence there that teams can still come out on top despite losing a fair few early on.

 

[midoNdefoe]

a big night for the referee tonight, there'll be diving all over the place.

Would be so sweet watching Salah get a pair of yellows for simulation

 

[danielneeds]

"A statistic to try to digest before tonight’s mouthwatering clash at the Etihad Stadium: only once in the Premier League era have a team with at least 15 wins in their first 20 matches failed to win the title — yet that is the unhappy fate that awaits two of Liverpool, Manchester City and Tottenham Hotspur this season."

Just shows the PL has changed in the last couple of years. It’s more of a series of mini-leagues and the quality drop-off is dramatic.

 

[DanielCHillier]

To back this up.....

94/95 season - United had 4 defeats at this point, they went on to lose only twice more but lost the title because they drew with West Ham on the final day.

95/96 season - United had 5 defeats by this point (including a 4-1 rout from us) only to lose once more and lift the title from Newcastle.
They won 13, drew twice and lost once in their final 16 games.

96/97 season - In their first 21 games they drew 8 times and lost three games on the bounce to leave them down in 5th. They went on to lose two more but lifted the title again.

97/98 season - Had only lost three times by January and were top but then they had a huge drop in form which allowed Arsenal to catch up and lost the title that year.

98/99 season - Once again their first 21 games produced 11 wins, 8 draws and 3 defeats by the NY and they were down in 4th, yet they still went on to win the title.

01/02 season - They had lost 6 by January and they went on to finish 3rd - they were actually 9th early December.

02/03 season - Probably the best example. They had lost 5 by NY and were 3rd, and from what I recall people were ruling them out at the time. However they went on to be unbeaten in the second half of the season in the second half, drawing just three games. They finished champions.

In contrast Arsenal had a not too perfect start in the.....

01/02 season - 3 defeats and 6 draws in their opening 21, but then they went on to not lose another game and became champions.

The negative aspect for us here is that the point tally at this point of the season is higher (we'd probably be top at this point on a fair few of these seasons above) which means it's likely to be higher at the end too. We need Liverpool's form to capitulate, which CAN happen if they suffer injuries, get too comfortable or feel any pressure - we will have to see. But there is evidence there that teams can still come out on top despite losing a fair few early on.

So go unbeaten for the rest of the season and we're in with a chance.

 

[rossdapep]

Would be so sweet watching Salah get a pair of yellows for simulation

City's fans need to be very loud and vocal and really put pressure on the ref, even boo Salah whenever he gets the ball.

Unfortunately it's probably one of the least intimidating atmospheres in the UK.

 

[spursfan77]

Problem is, we can’t win anything without being talked up at some stage.

Hopefully nobody notices us until it’s too late and we’ve already been crowned champions...

That’s the ideal scenario. A freak last day, last minute win.

 

[LeParisien]

You can ignore what I said and reply to a non-existent comment if you like but it’s probably best to post a stand-alone comment if you are going to do that.

I didn’t discuss all Liverpool’s spending just how they dealt with the proceeds of selling Coutinho. In that instance they bought Keita, VdV and then added cash to get Alison and Fabinho. Even if Fabinho hasn’t set the world alight I wouldn’t call any of that dross and it is in stark contrast to our transfer approach. If we sold Eriksen for a similar sum to Countinho does anyone believe we would buy 2 players for £65m each ? Of course not we would have all kinds of excuses about agent fees, wages and the zodiac. How is our supposed lower risk strategy of buying £10-15m punts who we can sell at a small loss if they don’t work out panning out for us ? Well GKN and Janssen would suggest not very well.

For the record as I’ve said many times before this isn’t a request to splash cash but to take some intelligent risk. If we can’t compete with Liverpool and others in top end transfers than let’s do a Dortmund and try to stock our academy with the best youth available but we don’t even spend money there. We prefer to spend on real estate than playing squad. You can neg rep me in every thread I don’t give a monkeys.

First, I haven’t and don’t « neg rep » people with any great volume. Let’s not create a siege mentality on the forum. We’re all spurs fans here.

To be fair I think I’m wrong to say Liverpool have bought a lot of dross under Klopp. Benteke - €46.5m big exception. And they recouped €30 of that. It was the 14/15 season where they pissed away huge soles on players like Markovic, Origi, Lovren, Balotelli, Moreno... under Klopp they’ve spent huge sums but very well.

I think if we got a windfall from a big signing we’d spend it ok. From the Bale money we bought Chadli for 8m and Lamela and Eriksen for a combined 40m. Some bad signings too but those alone took us to the next level (a competent CL team). Also in recent years we have steadily broken our transfer record. We bought Sanchez for 42m. I think we’d be in the market for a 50-60m player now if we got a big windfall. That would improve us.

I agree with your point about trying to be cannier with young signings like Dortmund. Tough market though !

 

[TottenhamMattSpur]

Interesting stat that.
Flip it around though, how many teams have lost 5 of their first 20 and gone on to win it?

I think it may have happened a couple of times under Fergie, maybe not 5 exactly but I do remember a couple of times United starting really slowly and suffering a few dodgy defeats only to be superior in the second half and cruise it. But that also coincides with the other challenger feeling the pressure and dropping lots of points.

To back this up.....

94/95 season - United had 4 defeats at this point, they went on to lose only twice more but lost the title because they drew with West Ham on the final day.

95/96 season - United had 5 defeats by this point (including a 4-1 rout from us) only to lose once more and lift the title from Newcastle.
They won 13, drew twice and lost once in their final 16 games.

96/97 season - In their first 21 games they drew 8 times and lost three games on the bounce to leave them down in 5th. They went on to lose two more but lifted the title again.

97/98 season - Had only lost three times by January and were top but then they had a huge drop in form which allowed Arsenal to catch up and lost the title that year.

98/99 season - Once again their first 21 games produced 11 wins, 8 draws and 3 defeats by the NY and they were down in 4th, yet they still went on to win the title.

01/02 season - They had lost 6 by January and they went on to finish 3rd - they were actually 9th early December.

02/03 season - Probably the best example. They had lost 5 by NY and were 3rd, and from what I recall people were ruling them out at the time. However they went on to be unbeaten in the second half of the season in the second half, drawing just three games. They finished champions.

In contrast Arsenal had a not too perfect start in the.....

01/02 season - 3 defeats and 6 draws in their opening 21, but then they went on to not lose another game and became champions.

The negative aspect for us here is that the point tally at this point of the season is higher (we'd probably be top at this point on a fair few of these seasons above) which means it's likely to be higher at the end too. We need Liverpool's form to capitulate, which CAN happen if they suffer injuries, get too comfortable or feel any pressure - we will have to see. But there is evidence there that teams can still come out on top despite losing a fair few early on.

Statistically you've totally blown my theory that you can't lose 5 out of 20 and still win the league so fair play to you sir and it is great cause for optimism.

I'm gonna throw in a little curve here and you may well come back and blow me away again (hopefully)
Your stats run to 01/02
Chelsea weren't bought until 2003 and City didn't get taken over by a rich nation until 2008
Before then Man United were by far and away the wealthiest most powerful club in the country. If they had a poor start they just bought their way out of trouble, often buying players (Andy Cole) from their only rival (they rarely had 2 if they even had 1)
As much as I hate the dirty money Chelsea and City brought to the premier league, they created competition, brought Man United down a bit and actually gave the rest a bit of a chance.

Would be so sweet watching Salah get a pair of yellows for simulation

No chance, I think he's been given a pass this season where he can do what he wants and no one in the media or governing bodies will talk about it negatively. He'll probably get a Nobel Peace Prize or something. Meanwhile Kane gets booked for actually getting kicked!

 

[BringBack_leGin]

Too soon for tomorrow but Vertonghen, Dembele and Lamela should all be good by the time we play Utd. Very timely indeed, our depth will be nicely strengthened going into the crunch months.

 

[class of 62]

[QUOTE="TottenhamMattSpur, post: 6144118, member: 23271




No chance, I think he's been given a pass this season where he can do what he wants and no one in the media or governing bodies will talk about it negatively. He'll probably get a Nobel Peace Prize or something. Meanwhile Kane gets booked for actually getting kicked![/QUOTE]

You recall last season the dogs abuse kane was getting from. Rawk and pool fans, in general when actually getting fouled and getting decisions....

 

[Kingstheman]

View attachment 43748

Want to hit dislike (for the content) but it would be unfair on you...

 

[Mornstar]

You can neg rep me in every thread I don’t give a monkeys.

but but but if you get lots of neg rep, you won't be able to enter heaven

 

[fingersinc]

That’s the ideal scenario. A freak last day, last minute win.

I believe AC Milan won the title like this a long time ago. If memory serves me correctly, the only day they were top of the table was the last day of the season.