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Race for the Top 4 - 2018/19

Where will we finish in the league ?


  • Total voters
    423
  • Poll closed .

Lighty64

I believe
Aug 24, 2010
10,400
12,476
Have you seen us recently? Sure we’ve shown balls to get the wins we’ve had, but we aren’t exactly pulling up any trees!

Not saying we can’t do it, although I’d be amazed if we did, but based on our performances of late I’m not so sure anyone can be confident of us taking more points than them two. We’ve got the harder run in haven’t we?

Don’t know whether you have noticed lately we haven’t exactly had our strongest XI play. To be honest have we actually had our strongest XI all season
 

easley91

Well-Known Member
Jan 27, 2011
18,721
53,768
Have you seen us recently? Sure we’ve shown balls to get the wins we’ve had, but we aren’t exactly pulling up any trees!

Not saying we can’t do it, although I’d be amazed if we did, but based on our performances of late I’m not so sure anyone can be confident of us taking more points than them two. We’ve got the harder run in haven’t we?
Isn't the old adage title winning sides win no matter what, even moreso when underperforming? It's better we continue to grind out wins than dominate and drop points. Continues to strengthen the mental resilience of the players knowing full well that they can be patient, the chances will come and we can fight until the death for three vital points.
 

Tucker

Shitehawk
Jul 15, 2013
31,134
146,038
After watching City tonight, I think we have a realistic chance at the title. If we can avoid losing the two games against City and Liverpool, I can see us taking more points than them from the rest of the games.

Not sure I'm too confident of us not losing against them, though...

Was it Mourinho who said the most important thing is not losing against your immediate rivals. In a league it’s more important to win all the other games and be consistent.

Unfortunately for us we’ve already given both our title rivals three points this season.
 

Lighty64

I believe
Aug 24, 2010
10,400
12,476
come Saturday Liverpool have a very good chance of going back top, especially the way Bournemouth have played away from home, but because they want to win more now, means they will try harder, trying harder not only means they might be a little more open at the back, but also the extra effort equals possible more injuries and more energy used. even if they win we have the chance on Sunday to go back to 5pts and City have the chance to go top again, though playing Chelsea will make it a little tougher.

after this weekend Liverpool play after us and Man City most weeks till we play them at the end of March, only difference being we all play the same time last match of February, and will most probably be the last time we all play at the same time till the last day
 

Chirpystheman

Well-Known Member
Jan 22, 2019
501
1,610
I know I'm happier that city won than I would be with them dropping points. City winning changes nothing. Finishing above them is still in our hands. Would we really want to wake up Sunday with liverpool 6 points clear of 2nd and 8 clear of us. We need them under as much pressure as possible. Also if city drop too many points in the the next 3-4 weeks. They might go all out for the champs league easing the pressure on liverpool even more. We want them in the hunt until we beat them and go top. Liverpool are cracking and klopp looks worried. Let's keep the pressure on them. Ideal world liverpool lose to bournmouth and city draw with Chelsea at the weekend. Very plausible results considering bournmouth do well against sides who open up and Chelsea will be fresh. Then we can go joint top pushing liverpool to 3rd before they play United providing we beat Leicester and Burnley. To win the league we probably need to win 11 games and that means beating liverpool. Can afford a draw with city. Very improbable however we won 12 of our last 13 a couple years back. Let's do it again.
 

ardiles

Well-Known Member
Nov 24, 2006
13,228
40,308
We are only 2 points behind City so one more win than they have and we can overtake them.

Liverpool are still too far ahead and we need City to pile the pressure on pool to pull them back.

With the extra number of games that City are still involved in, they would likely falter at some point or other.

So yesterday’s win against Everton was good for us. Hope it affects pool against Bournemouth this weekend.
 

E17yid

Well-Known Member
Jan 21, 2013
16,985
30,495
It’s a shame that Liverpool v Bournemouth game is at Anfield. If it was at Bournemouth I’d be optimistic for a draw but I don’t think Bournemouth’s away form is the greatest. They can definitely still get something, though.
 

worcestersauce

"I'm no optimist I'm just a prisoner of hope
Jan 23, 2006
26,895
45,043
It’s a shame that Liverpool v Bournemouth game is at Anfield. If it was at Bournemouth I’d be optimistic for a draw but I don’t think Bournemouth’s away form is the greatest. They can definitely still get something, though.
If they do get something it will tell us an awful lot about how Liverpool are being affected by the pressure.
 

E17yid

Well-Known Member
Jan 21, 2013
16,985
30,495
If they do get something it will tell us an awful lot about how Liverpool are being affected by the pressure.

To be honest, ever since that loss against City you could tell they’ve been cracking a bit. Even the games they won like Brighton they’ve not been blowing them away. Will be interesting to see how the crowd is too.
 

MightyModric

Well-Known Member
May 29, 2011
1,147
3,201
What's the general feeling on the Leicester match?

It's going to be a tough one, always feel like we struggle a little bit against them
 

easley91

Well-Known Member
Jan 27, 2011
18,721
53,768
What's the general feeling on the Leicester match?

It's going to be a tough one, always feel like we struggle a little bit against them
Apart from their league winning season, don't we have a generally good record? Especially at home?
 

kmk

Well-Known Member
Oct 5, 2014
4,146
27,504


https://www.football365.com/news/the-2018-19-premier-league-title-race-expose-the-fraud

The 2018/19 Premier League title race: Expose the ‘fraud’
Date published: Thursday 7th February 2019 7:56

When Liverpool’s official account tweeted the starting XI selected by Jurgen Klopp on Monday night, it provoked a wave of abusive replies from those purporting to be supporters of the club. The principal subject of their disdain was Adam Lallana, an England international picked to play in central midfield due to injuries suffered by Georginio Wijnaldum and Jordan Henderson.

‘Now for the real team,’ was the typical reply. One included a gif of a cartoon suicide, another of someone pulling a noose over their neck. At least some were happy, albeit hardly in a supportive fashion: they expressed delight that Wijnaldum and Henderson had suffered knocks because they disliked seeing them in their team.

Of course, Lallana played well. He drove forward, protected the ball and looked to provide the link between the midfield and Liverpool’s front three, because that is what he always does. But by full-time, with Liverpool drawing 1-1, Lallana was no longer the story.

Suddenly Liverpool supporters on social media expressed concern that their team was ‘bottling the title’. Search on Twitter for ‘Klopp sacked’ if you think that’s the worst of the extreme reaction. Yes, Klopp should be sacked if Liverpool don’t win the league.

For what it’s worth, Liverpool are on course to achieve the third highest points total in Premier League history and the highest points total in the club’s entire history. If social media is no barometer of majority opinion nor the natural habitat of reasoned debate, the entitlement among some is still striking. Where did we all go wrong?

Liverpool are only this week’s example of the wailing hysteria that now envelopes football coverage. Last week, you could listen to pundits saying that Maurizio Sarri faced the immediate sack at Chelsea. When Manchester City lost to Newcastle, the Bald Fraud Army mobilised their troops. In the space of six weeks, Mauricio Pochettino has been damned for Tottenham losing to Wolves, praised for their three-game winning response, castigated again for cup defeats and then lauded for late victories. Tottenham’s participation in the title race follows the same path as a hokey-cokey dance.

Things happen in football matches. Teams drop points. Football players are people and by definition are therefore unreliable. We have not yet created a club filled with footballing automata. We liberally bestow greatness and ignominy, and very few merit either description. What’s worse, we redistribute those terms more often than the wind changes.

It has created a bizarro world in which reputations are decided solely through a prism of extremism. If Liverpool finish second, Tottenham third and Manchester United fourth, hardly a highly unlikely scenario, there will be four teams in the top six (Liverpool, Spurs, Arsenal and Chelsea) whose current managers will be accused of overseeing disappointment this season. And disappointment means fraudulence. It’s exhausting.

The financial inequality and competitive imbalance of the Premier League is, in part, responsible for increased supporter impatience. The gap between the top six and the rest – in economic terms at least – has never been wider. As such, wins against that ‘rest’ have become expectation rather than ambition, and any dropped points a relative crisis.

Take Tottenham as an example of the decreased margin for error. Pochettino’s team are on course to reach 87 points, which would most likely see Tottenham finish third and their manager’s progress seriously questioned. That points total would have won the Premier League in 1996, 1997, 1998, 1999, 2001, 2002, 2003, 2010, 2011, 2014, 2015 and 2016. The goalposts have moved.

A victory by anything other than a convincing scoreline thus fails to deposit anything into a manager’s bank of goodwill. Defeats and draws make significant withdrawals. Only eventual triumph counts as success, and any stumble is apparent proof of an inability to stomach the fight.

If the media plays little part on the production line of the extremism of supporter opinion, it is a vital cog in its distribution. In the Wild West of digital journalism, it has never been harder to sell pieces and never more necessary to do so. Psychologists have repeatedly proven negativity bias, in which sudden crisis is more interesting to readers than sustainable improvement. Nobody wants to read that everything is fine and nothing sells like bad news. Call someone a fraud, and people click to enjoy them being called a fraud and get angry about them being called a fraud. Easy.

That tendency towards crisis reporting has been exacerbated by the glamorisation of extreme opinion, a phenomenon that applies to far more important subjects than football. ‘Twitter reacts’ has become an undeserving but common headline, media outlets plumping for sensational negative sells and then raising their hands to say ‘Not me, guv’. ‘Liverpool players accused of bottling Premier League title race by angry fans after dropping points against West Ham’ was one Tuesday offering, to stick with the original Liverpool example.

Social media has enabled antisocial people to become social. Someone who would normally have had an outrageous opinion dismissed can now find like-minded (and often anonymous) individuals who share it. When those opinions are given undue prominence (as in this BBC example), they inevitably propagate.

The Premier League and media have provided the petri dish, but the nature of football support itself seems to have changed. Tribalism continues to grow to the extent that many take any praise for an opposition club as blasphemy of their own, and the anger of these people is extraordinary. Journalists and writers joke about it (and I’m taking out my small violin here), but appalling personal abuse is received for accused bias against every top six team. Crucially, this extremism becomes self-fulfilling. Self-centredness breeds isolation, isolation breeds more anger and anger breeds further self-centredness.

I distinctly remember Sheffield Wednesday supporters applauding Nottingham Forest’s goals in a 7-1 win at Hillsborough in 1995, and sections of Forest’s support doing the same during a 5-1 defeat to Blackburn Rovers the following season. It is hard to imagine that happening now as football has increasingly become A Very Serious Business. Fans have become defined not by their love of the game or support of their team, but their angry defence of their own narrow views on both.

In November, Kick It Out reported a rise in discriminatory abuse of 11% from 2016/17 to 2017/18, with reports of racism up 22%. Last week, sports minister Mims Davies announced an urgent meeting with football leaders to tackle the issue of growing discrimination. As the anger noticeably rises, it is hard not to make a correlation between a growth in football tribalism and growth in unacceptable abuse.

Even away from the worst elements of supporters, a general mania exists that is enough to give you a migraine. Melodrama and hysteria now come as standard as clubs and managers lurch between crisis and glory like a runaway train and supporters delight in both according to their loyalties. No longer is it enough to wait until the end of the season for medals and trinkets to be handed out. Why bother, when you can scream and scream and scream until you’re sick after every match. And you can.

Over the next 15 weeks, one of the best title races in years will play out. We have the champions Manchester City, whose financial advantage puts pressure on them defending their crown. We have Liverpool under the magnanimous Klopp, who have lost once all season and will return to the top of the table once more if they beat Bournemouth at home, despite the bed-wetting from some supporters. We have Tottenham, punching above their financial weight and five points off the top, an undoubted feel-good story.

Twenty years ago, supporters of those three clubs would have hoped and prayed and prayed and hoped. If they had fallen short, the journey would have been appreciated and admired. The rest of us would have sat back and enjoyed the show. Everything felt positive, still a soap opera but one that meant nothing as well as everything.

Is the same true in 2019, or has the ‘nothing’ been lost? Were Everton ‘legends’ in 1986 for allowing a rampant Liverpool to creep past them? Was Alex Ferguson a ‘fraud’ because Manchester United failed to beat West Ham on the final day in 1995? Were Arsenal chokers because they lost to Leeds in May 1999? Or did we commiserate the losers but remember the winners?

This could be the first Premier League title race that will be defined by those who miss out rather than those who win, and people are itching to pour scorn on those who miss out. Be victorious, and you shall rise as a knight. Fall short, and you are destined for a lifetime of fraud-itude.

Daniel Storey
 

rossdapep

Well-Known Member
Aug 25, 2011
21,907
78,649
Looking at City's run-in I can't see nothing but another championship for them. I think they've got their focus back.

I suppose we can hope that they go far in the CL and get distracted but I reckon they'd need to drop points in at least 3 games plus we'd have to beat them.

I think we have too much to do but if we can hang on in there then that would be incredible.

Can see Liverpool dropping more points over the next few games. Let's hope it allows us to sneak in above them.
 

Westmorlandspur

Well-Known Member
Feb 1, 2013
2,685
4,500
What's the general feeling on the Leicester match?

It's going to be a tough one, always feel like we struggle a little bit against them
They have changed a lot since they won the league. Really young team and play a lot more football. The midfield 2 didn’t look great against Man Utd , apparently Teilimans will play on Sunday. Igetthe impression that Vardy is being squeezed out as they don’t suit his type of game anymore.
 

rossdapep

Well-Known Member
Aug 25, 2011
21,907
78,649


https://www.football365.com/news/the-2018-19-premier-league-title-race-expose-the-fraud

The 2018/19 Premier League title race: Expose the ‘fraud’
Date published: Thursday 7th February 2019 7:56

When Liverpool’s official account tweeted the starting XI selected by Jurgen Klopp on Monday night, it provoked a wave of abusive replies from those purporting to be supporters of the club. The principal subject of their disdain was Adam Lallana, an England international picked to play in central midfield due to injuries suffered by Georginio Wijnaldum and Jordan Henderson.

‘Now for the real team,’ was the typical reply. One included a gif of a cartoon suicide, another of someone pulling a noose over their neck. At least some were happy, albeit hardly in a supportive fashion: they expressed delight that Wijnaldum and Henderson had suffered knocks because they disliked seeing them in their team.

Of course, Lallana played well. He drove forward, protected the ball and looked to provide the link between the midfield and Liverpool’s front three, because that is what he always does. But by full-time, with Liverpool drawing 1-1, Lallana was no longer the story.

Suddenly Liverpool supporters on social media expressed concern that their team was ‘bottling the title’. Search on Twitter for ‘Klopp sacked’ if you think that’s the worst of the extreme reaction. Yes, Klopp should be sacked if Liverpool don’t win the league.

For what it’s worth, Liverpool are on course to achieve the third highest points total in Premier League history and the highest points total in the club’s entire history. If social media is no barometer of majority opinion nor the natural habitat of reasoned debate, the entitlement among some is still striking. Where did we all go wrong?

Liverpool are only this week’s example of the wailing hysteria that now envelopes football coverage. Last week, you could listen to pundits saying that Maurizio Sarri faced the immediate sack at Chelsea. When Manchester City lost to Newcastle, the Bald Fraud Army mobilised their troops. In the space of six weeks, Mauricio Pochettino has been damned for Tottenham losing to Wolves, praised for their three-game winning response, castigated again for cup defeats and then lauded for late victories. Tottenham’s participation in the title race follows the same path as a hokey-cokey dance.

Things happen in football matches. Teams drop points. Football players are people and by definition are therefore unreliable. We have not yet created a club filled with footballing automata. We liberally bestow greatness and ignominy, and very few merit either description. What’s worse, we redistribute those terms more often than the wind changes.

It has created a bizarro world in which reputations are decided solely through a prism of extremism. If Liverpool finish second, Tottenham third and Manchester United fourth, hardly a highly unlikely scenario, there will be four teams in the top six (Liverpool, Spurs, Arsenal and Chelsea) whose current managers will be accused of overseeing disappointment this season. And disappointment means fraudulence. It’s exhausting.

The financial inequality and competitive imbalance of the Premier League is, in part, responsible for increased supporter impatience. The gap between the top six and the rest – in economic terms at least – has never been wider. As such, wins against that ‘rest’ have become expectation rather than ambition, and any dropped points a relative crisis.

Take Tottenham as an example of the decreased margin for error. Pochettino’s team are on course to reach 87 points, which would most likely see Tottenham finish third and their manager’s progress seriously questioned. That points total would have won the Premier League in 1996, 1997, 1998, 1999, 2001, 2002, 2003, 2010, 2011, 2014, 2015 and 2016. The goalposts have moved.

A victory by anything other than a convincing scoreline thus fails to deposit anything into a manager’s bank of goodwill. Defeats and draws make significant withdrawals. Only eventual triumph counts as success, and any stumble is apparent proof of an inability to stomach the fight.

If the media plays little part on the production line of the extremism of supporter opinion, it is a vital cog in its distribution. In the Wild West of digital journalism, it has never been harder to sell pieces and never more necessary to do so. Psychologists have repeatedly proven negativity bias, in which sudden crisis is more interesting to readers than sustainable improvement. Nobody wants to read that everything is fine and nothing sells like bad news. Call someone a fraud, and people click to enjoy them being called a fraud and get angry about them being called a fraud. Easy.

That tendency towards crisis reporting has been exacerbated by the glamorisation of extreme opinion, a phenomenon that applies to far more important subjects than football. ‘Twitter reacts’ has become an undeserving but common headline, media outlets plumping for sensational negative sells and then raising their hands to say ‘Not me, guv’. ‘Liverpool players accused of bottling Premier League title race by angry fans after dropping points against West Ham’ was one Tuesday offering, to stick with the original Liverpool example.

Social media has enabled antisocial people to become social. Someone who would normally have had an outrageous opinion dismissed can now find like-minded (and often anonymous) individuals who share it. When those opinions are given undue prominence (as in this BBC example), they inevitably propagate.

The Premier League and media have provided the petri dish, but the nature of football support itself seems to have changed. Tribalism continues to grow to the extent that many take any praise for an opposition club as blasphemy of their own, and the anger of these people is extraordinary. Journalists and writers joke about it (and I’m taking out my small violin here), but appalling personal abuse is received for accused bias against every top six team. Crucially, this extremism becomes self-fulfilling. Self-centredness breeds isolation, isolation breeds more anger and anger breeds further self-centredness.

I distinctly remember Sheffield Wednesday supporters applauding Nottingham Forest’s goals in a 7-1 win at Hillsborough in 1995, and sections of Forest’s support doing the same during a 5-1 defeat to Blackburn Rovers the following season. It is hard to imagine that happening now as football has increasingly become A Very Serious Business. Fans have become defined not by their love of the game or support of their team, but their angry defence of their own narrow views on both.

In November, Kick It Out reported a rise in discriminatory abuse of 11% from 2016/17 to 2017/18, with reports of racism up 22%. Last week, sports minister Mims Davies announced an urgent meeting with football leaders to tackle the issue of growing discrimination. As the anger noticeably rises, it is hard not to make a correlation between a growth in football tribalism and growth in unacceptable abuse.

Even away from the worst elements of supporters, a general mania exists that is enough to give you a migraine. Melodrama and hysteria now come as standard as clubs and managers lurch between crisis and glory like a runaway train and supporters delight in both according to their loyalties. No longer is it enough to wait until the end of the season for medals and trinkets to be handed out. Why bother, when you can scream and scream and scream until you’re sick after every match. And you can.

Over the next 15 weeks, one of the best title races in years will play out. We have the champions Manchester City, whose financial advantage puts pressure on them defending their crown. We have Liverpool under the magnanimous Klopp, who have lost once all season and will return to the top of the table once more if they beat Bournemouth at home, despite the bed-wetting from some supporters. We have Tottenham, punching above their financial weight and five points off the top, an undoubted feel-good story.

Twenty years ago, supporters of those three clubs would have hoped and prayed and prayed and hoped. If they had fallen short, the journey would have been appreciated and admired. The rest of us would have sat back and enjoyed the show. Everything felt positive, still a soap opera but one that meant nothing as well as everything.

Is the same true in 2019, or has the ‘nothing’ been lost? Were Everton ‘legends’ in 1986 for allowing a rampant Liverpool to creep past them? Was Alex Ferguson a ‘fraud’ because Manchester United failed to beat West Ham on the final day in 1995? Were Arsenal chokers because they lost to Leeds in May 1999? Or did we commiserate the losers but remember the winners?

This could be the first Premier League title race that will be defined by those who miss out rather than those who win, and people are itching to pour scorn on those who miss out. Be victorious, and you shall rise as a knight. Fall short, and you are destined for a lifetime of fraud-itude.

Daniel Storey

Great article.

The tone is exactly how I feel about modern football. I don't work in an office any longer but I used to hate walking in to work to immediately be told "Spurs bottled it last night" or "Told ya Spurs were shit" by a fan of a team who had no place to say these things (mostly Leeds fans).

The tribalism that exists today is utterly boring and completely mindless. Fans don't seem to support clubs because they 'love' the club, it's traditions and what it stands for, they seem to 'support' them in order to get cheap digs in at other rival fans, it's pathetic. Social media is hugely responsible for this and I know we come on here and laugh at Liverpool or Arsenal when they lose but that's mostly just between us Tottenham fans. I used to work with a Liverpool fan back when they were out of the top 4 and he was very mild about his support, never really got involved in discussions and held his opinion back, then as soon as they started doing better he was gloating and now the main instigator behind conversations. What made his support active again?

Back in 15/16 (Mourinho sacking season) I asked my Chelsea supporting pal what was happening at the club, not in a snide way but in a genuine way to garner his opinion on what was happening. He bluntly told me "I don't care about this season, not interested." and then proceeded to slag Tottenham off instead. It's becoming harder and harder to find people who you can actively engage in decent debates or discussions with because everyone just wants to gloat or slag off other clubs.
 

teddy_sheringham_125

Well-Known Member
Jul 15, 2008
1,381
837
Looking at City's run-in I can't see nothing but another championship for them. I think they've got their focus back.

I suppose we can hope that they go far in the CL and get distracted but I reckon they'd need to drop points in at least 3 games plus we'd have to beat them.

I think we have too much to do but if we can hang on in there then that would be incredible.

Can see Liverpool dropping more points over the next few games. Let's hope it allows us to sneak in above them.

Two games ago, Man City lost to Newcastle. Recent weeks have shown that all of the top 3 can lose or draw games you would expect them to win. There is a long way to go yet, and I wouldn't be comfortable predicting what is going to happen. All I know is, we're still in the mix.
 

danielneeds

Kick-Ass
May 5, 2004
24,179
48,764
What's the general feeling on the Leicester match?

It's going to be a tough one, always feel like we struggle a little bit against them
They're always are up for it against us. There's still a little enmity from their title season. Plus the fact that we look to push high and dominate the ball suits Vardy and the counter.

They've got a lot of good young players - Maddison, Chilwell, Ndidi, Barnes, Perreira, if they eventually get the right manager in they could put together a very useful side.
 
Last edited:

coys200

Well-Known Member
May 22, 2017
8,436
17,403
They can deny the nerves all they like. But the more they talk about it the more of an issue it becomes. It’s just a common fact of the human psyche. If something isn’t mentioned you don’t think about it. But the more you are asked about something even if you weren’t feeling the nervous the more it will eat into your psyche.
 

Spurslove

Well-Known Member
Jul 6, 2012
6,627
9,281
Was it Mourinho who said the most important thing is not losing against your immediate rivals. In a league it’s more important to win all the other games and be consistent.

Unfortunately for us we’ve already given both our title rivals three points this season.

Let's not forget we have a perfect opportunity to take those points back again.

We have away games at City, Liverpool and Chelsea to come and I for one believe we have an excellent chance of winning them. Anyone in any doubt should simply check out our incredible away record this season.

.
 

danielneeds

Kick-Ass
May 5, 2004
24,179
48,764
Let's not forget we have a perfect opportunity to take those points back again.

We have away games at City, Liverpool and Chelsea to come and I for one believe we have an excellent chance of winning them. Anyone in any doubt should simply check out our incredible away record this season.

.
Our incredible away record is kinda reflecting that we haven't played any of them yet though. We need to up our current level a lot to get anything from those games.
 
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