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Rafa van der Vaart

tototoner

Staying Alert
Mar 21, 2004
29,387
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AVB ripped apart the best team we'd had in decades, then lumbered us with a bunch of useless twats that we're still struggling to get rid of.

I supported Levy's decision to bring in AVB as I thought he was a young and ambitious manager with a clear plan, but looking back....what a clusterfuck.
one of Levy's worst ever decisions and that is saying something
 

tototoner

Staying Alert
Mar 21, 2004
29,387
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Was my favorite player in world football even before he joined us, was a pleasure to watch him in a Tottenham shirt.

As for Villas-Boas, what a numpty
 

Mr Pink

SC Supporter
Aug 25, 2010
54,770
99,331
Makes you realize how important man management is though. Harry for all his faults was fantastic at making footballers feel good about themselves.

AVB on the other hand.

I'm a big believer in a manager's personality being reflected in the way his team plays. AVB sounded boring and we looked boring as a team. Dossiers and all that bollox, players played in straight jackets half the time.

Watched a re run of the 3-2 at the Emirates, his penalty to make it 2-2...so composed its unreal. What a player he was and such a pity we didn't keep him for a few more years.
 
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dagraham

Well-Known Member
Sep 20, 2005
19,115
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i think there are a lot of regrets from that time starting with Harry dropping the fricken ball when England came calling or at least he thought they were.

He didnt realise that the team was the best team he would ever manage and that he was probably the key to holding it all together. As soon as he left and AVB came in it all went to shit for a lot of reasons that were not necessarily all AVB's fault. But it had all fallen apart by then.

But what a team Harry and you fuckin' blew it mate! Who knows how far that side could have got the season following.

The whole club blew it, not just Harry. Failing to build on that team was a short sighted decision that's set us back years.

Don't know whether to laugh or cry reading that article. Don't think I've ever been more gutted to see a player leave (maybe Teddy).
 

dagraham

Well-Known Member
Sep 20, 2005
19,115
46,080
Makes you realize how important man management is though. Harry for all his faults was fantastic at making footballers feel good about themselves.

AVB on the other hand.

I'm a big believer in a manager's personality being reflected in the way his team plays.

Watched our re run of the 3-2 at the Emirates, his penalty to make it 2-2...so composed its unreal.

Yep. I'd take that style of manager over the stato, clip board style all day. Of course the best managers combine the two with tactics, disciple and making players run through brick walls for them. That's why Jose and Fergie have been so successful.
 

TottenhamMattSpur

Well-Known Member
Aug 31, 2012
10,925
16,007
AVB ripped apart the best team we'd had in decades, then lumbered us with a bunch of useless twats that we're still struggling to get rid of.

I supported Levy's decision to bring in AVB as I thought he was a young and ambitious manager with a clear plan, but looking back....what a clusterfuck.
FINALLY people are starting to see it.

Myself and a few others were reviled because of our dislike for him. I think it's becoming apparent now how he alienates squads with his beligerance.
 

thfc1989

Well-Known Member
May 8, 2008
2,601
3,439
AVB is an absolute cretin and is socially inept. Tried to do the same at Chelsea with some of their best performers.
 

Spurrific

Well-Known Member
Jun 2, 2011
13,501
57,356
I've been pissed off at Rafa since he left. I was under the impression it was his decision to leave, but it sounds like AVB was an absolute thunder**** to him. Was a pleasure to have him at Spurs, and for nostalgia sake and because he's one of the most gifted players we've had in my lifetime.

Now firmly back in love with him.
 

dagraham

Well-Known Member
Sep 20, 2005
19,115
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Something also worth noting from that article. Seems like Lennon was valued far more by his team mates than he is on here.
 

nicdic

Official SC Padre
Admin
May 8, 2005
41,857
25,919
I've been pissed off at Rafa since he left. I was under the impression it was his decision to leave, but it sounds like AVB was an absolute thunder**** to him. Was a pleasure to have him at Spurs, and for nostalgia sake and because he's one of the most gifted players we've had in my lifetime.

Now firmly back in love with him.
He starts by saying some of it was personal reasons (we know he was having marriage trouble, and they split not long after leaving), then said AVBs comments made him decide to go. I think it's easy for him to look back and say it was mistake now because of the both the way things went with Sylvie and with AVB and us.
 

dagraham

Well-Known Member
Sep 20, 2005
19,115
46,080
He starts by saying some of it was personal reasons (we know he was having marriage trouble, and they split not long after leaving), then said AVBs comments made him decide to go. I think it's easy for him to look back and say it was mistake now because of the both the way things went with Sylvie and with AVB and us.

Stupid bitch. Putting her own marriage before the concerns of millions of Spurs fans.

I forgive her though and would still let her sleep with me.
 

kaz Hirai

Well-Known Member
Nov 5, 2008
17,692
25,340
AVB ripped apart the best team we'd had in decades, then lumbered us with a bunch of useless twats that we're still struggling to get rid of.

I supported Levy's decision to bring in AVB as I thought he was a young and ambitious manager with a clear plan, but looking back....what a clusterfuck.

So it was avbs fault for king retiring, bale and modric being sold, vdv's failing fitness, scott Parker being a shadow of his former self and sticking with redknaps purchase of ade over Defoe ?
Guess it was his fault for getting Clint Dempsey instead of moutinho too.

What a bastard he is huh
 

UpTownSpur

Says it like it is
Dec 31, 2014
2,266
4,362
Lots of rose tinted spectacles going on here. Rafa did great for us but there were always issues with him - dodgy hamstrings for one and it could be difficult to get more than sixty minutes out of him. He hogged a lot the free kicks when Bale would have been better taking them. So there was rationality of AVB moving him on (I'm his number one hater btw) but, like Dawson, he could have stayed and fought for his place. It didn't go great for him in Germany so perhaps we did move him along at the right time.
 

kaz Hirai

Well-Known Member
Nov 5, 2008
17,692
25,340
Lots of rose tinted spectacles going on here. Rafa did great for us but there were always issues with him - dodgy hamstrings for one and it could be difficult to get more than sixty minutes out of him. He hogged a lot the free kicks when Bale would have been better taking them. So there was rationality of AVB moving him on (I'm his number one hater btw) but, like Dawson, he could have stayed and fought for his place. It didn't go great for him in Germany so perhaps we did move him along at the right time.

Indeed sir.

Avb didn't say youre shite pack your stuff, he had just spent big on sig who many were delighted with signing
It was on vdv to fight for his place like rose just fought for and nailed down his place, or Dawson did many times over under avb when Andre didn't initially fancy him. But he fought and became a key fixture

Loved vdv but massive rose tints here, I certainly remember alot of criticism at the end on this board for his fitness and work rate. I'd bump if I could be arsed
 
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JUSTINSIGNAL

Well-Known Member
Jul 10, 2008
15,980
48,499
FINALLY people are starting to see it.

Myself and a few others were reviled because of our dislike for him. I think it's becoming apparent now how he alienates squads with his beligerance.

Tbf Rafa did also say "It was private things..." so the reason for him leaving wasn't soley down AVB.

As much as I loved Rafa he was pretty primadonna-ish to want to leave because AVB wouldn't guarantee him to be the main man. AVB had just taken over and was trying to run a meritocracy and considering Rafa's fitness and injury record I don't blame him for not wanting to rely on him. It wouldn't have sent out the right signals to the rest of the squad if he had made him automatic first choice.
 

EJWTartanSpur

SC Supporter
Jan 29, 2011
4,805
10,087
Rafa's side of this was covered in more detail a year or so back in another article....

When Sigurdsson was signed, Rafa was brought into AVB's office and told that Sig was number 1 for that position and Rafa should either leave or accept being back up ( direct quotes from Rafa ). To me, this highlighted the worst aspect of AVB's weaknesses, and one of Harry's mains strengths. AVB was young and inexperienced in understanding how to treat differing personalities to get the best out of them. Fair enough if Sig was number 1 in his own head but that didn't mean that this was the way to go about it with a veteran player of the squad who has some amount of pride through his previous experiences/clubs.. Rafa was our most experienced top level player, a beacon to the younger guys and represented many things that the fans loved. Anyone with an ability to read characters and understand roles should've known to treat Rafa with some respect and phrase things very differently imo. I'll take Rafa at his word because he has no reason to lie, so to me, AVB was extremely heavy fisted and obtuse in how he handled it.

If he'd said to Rafa '' We've brought in Sigurdsson, we really like him and think he will push you for your place, but we respect your role in this squad and what you've achieved and hope you can cement your place through performances'' I'm pretty damn sure Rafa's view on staying/going may have been very different. Furthermore, we know that Sig really didn't do much to cement his place, Dempsey was an ill fit, we struggled creatively and that if AVB had displayed some more nous that VDV could have been a very useful player for us in patches even with his flagging fitness.

AVB's belligerence, rigidity and lack of understanding the human aspects to a squad of players meant that players like this would be instantly ostricized if they weren't a shoe in in the starting lineup.
 
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tototoner

Staying Alert
Mar 21, 2004
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If it's a question of who will go down as having the bigger impact at the club and having the most affection among fans at Tottenham, van der Vaart or Villas-Boas then there really is no contest.
 
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