Rating vs Liverpool

MOM

  • Lloris

    Votes: 23 10.8%
  • Rose

    Votes: 17 8.0%
  • Vertonghen

    Votes: 5 2.4%
  • Kaboul

    Votes: 1 0.5%
  • Dier

    Votes: 10 4.7%
  • Capoue

    Votes: 17 8.0%
  • Bentaleb

    Votes: 10 4.7%
  • Lamela

    Votes: 46 21.7%
  • Eriksen

    Votes: 4 1.9%
  • Chadli

    Votes: 32 15.1%
  • Adebayor

    Votes: 23 10.8%
  • Dembele

    Votes: 7 3.3%
  • Townsend

    Votes: 6 2.8%
  • Davies

    Votes: 13 6.1%

  • Total voters
    212

Spurs_Bear

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Leaving your 60% to one side @Bus-Conductor, were you happy with how we passed the ball to each other? Were you not screaming blue murder the times Kaboul's heavy touch made his second touch a block tackle? Or how our midfielders were unable to find the full backs or attack minded players?

I'm shocked by your feelings on the game, but maybe as Mr Pink jested, which I wont jest as it's probably true, this was too much of an AVB type performance to go unnoticed, which is why you were happy enough.

I think it's the worst I've seen us play in a long time.
 

Spurs_Bear

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It's like the score is everything with some of you guys. If Adebayor or Chadli had buried great chances and we hadn't gifted Liverpool two really soft individual goals second half and the game had petered into a 1-1 draw that followed the same pattern of play with us dominating possession and territory with them looking menacing on the break - which is how most of the game was - you'd be saying "not bad for 3rd game in considering the quality and experience of Liverpool compared to us".
Why do you keep ignoring the fact that we could have been 4-0 by the time Chadli even had that chance?
 

Mr Pink

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But that is the point I made last week that everyone took exception to, it's piss easy to look like a slick outfit when the opposition are not only of poor quality and tactically atrocious, but don't even exert themselves.

Just like last week you were too quick to declare something a wonderful performance that wasn't, this week you are too quick to declare a disaster or complete failure.

The truth is neither. We weren't brilliant against QPR, just good, they did the rest. They didn't lay a boot on us until we got to their 18 yard box, so of course we looked slicker, we were under no pressure. We could have won that game 10-0 if we'd actually pressed them properly or transitioned quicker or been less careless with the ball second half.

It's like the score is everything with some of you guys. If Adebayor or Chadli had buried great chances and we hadn't gifted Liverpool two really soft individual goals second half and the game had petered into a 1-1 draw that followed the same pattern of play with us dominating possession and territory with them looking menacing on the break - which is how most of the game was - you'd be saying "not bad for 3rd game in considering the quality and experience of Liverpool compared to us".

The problems of Sunday are endemic problems we have had since the beginning of last year. Everyone blamed AVB for "stunted robotic play" then last week everyone said "Eureka it's cured". It's bullshit. Those problems are about the players we have and their mentalities as much as it is about the coaching. They won't be cured of all the deficiencies in 2 games, and some of them may never. Adebayor can be unplayable, but as saw under AVB and now Pochettino, he can be a fart in a fucking trance as well. Chadli and Lamela have just played their first consecutive games in the EPL I believe (certainly in the same team). Capoue is starting all over again after a good false start this time last year and Bentaleb is a 19yo kid learning on the job.

No coach on earth is going to make those circumstances look like a well oiled, 3rd year drilled group of players. No coach is going to raise their footballing IQ significantly in 2 games.

The revolution didn't arrive last week and it didn't vanish this week either. We are in a major transition and it will take a long while, and even then we still won't have the same quality of personnel as others, who also have great coaches. So realism may still be required.

First of all, I don't expect us to be a well oiled machine whereby everything clicks instantly. I'm not that naive and I'm also prepared to be ultra patient with Pochettino, if it takes two to three seasons - so be it. I was a big advocate to get him in and I'm delighted we have him.

That being said I anticipated you would do this to back up what you were arguing over the QPR game.

I didn't agree with your assessment on that game and I don't agree with it on this one either.

And there you go again talking extremes. I didn't declare it a complete disaster and failure. I've called it what I think it was...a poor performance, and I stand by that, it was poor IMO.

You're trying to imply that I'm all about instant gratification which is a bit of a cheap shot really.

But what it is, is just one game. So there's no knee jerk reaction. I understand full well that there will be many bumps and blips on our road of development.

Its totally plausible to see a good performance one week and not such a good one the next week in the early teething stages of development.

Liverpool under Rodgers in their first season were very hit and miss and inconsistent. I suspect we might have to endure similar.

We played with much better intensity and urgency against QPR. We moved the ball quicker and our movement was sharper.

Now obviously, the opposition play a part in how successful you are at doing these things but you only have to look at the way we started both games to see the contrast. No high press, none. Adebayor et al came flying out of the traps against QPR, hungry to the win the ball back.

The difference was extremely noticeable and it sets the tone for the game. You'll recall that we were on the back foot immediately with Liverpool. Looking nervous and unsure from the off. They should of been a few goals up to. In other words our tentative start could of seen the game been all but over inside the first 20 minutes.
 
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Supersi32

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First of all, I don't expect us to be a well oiled machine whereby everything clicks instantly. I'm not that naive and I'm also prepared to be ultra patient with Pochettino, if it takes two to three seasons - so be it. I was a big advocate to get him and I'm delighted we have him.

That being said I anticipated you would do this to back up what you were arguing over the QPR game.

I didn't agree with your assessment on that game and I don't agree with it on this one either.

And there you go again talking extremes. I didn't declare it a complete disaster and failure. I've called it what I think it was...a poor performance, and I stand by that, it was poor IMO.

You're trying to imply that I'm all about instant gratification which is a bit of cheap shot really.

But what it is, is just one game. So there's no knee jerk reaction. I understand full well that there will be many bumps and blips on our road of development.

Its totally plausible to see a good performance one week and not such a good one the next week in the early teething stages of development.

Liverpool under Rodgers in their first season were very hit and miss and inconsistent. I suspect we might have to endure similar.

We played with much better intensity and urgency against QPR. We moved the ball quicker and our movement was sharper.

Now obviously, the opposition play a part in how successful you are at doing these things but you only have to look at the way we started both games to see the contrast. No high press, none. Adebayor et al came flying out of the traps against QPR, hungry to the win the ball back.

The difference was extremely noticeable and it sets the tone for the game. You'll recall that we were on the back foot immediately with Liverpool. Looking nervous and unsure from the off. They should of been a few goals up to. In other words our tentative start could of seen the game been all but over inside the first 20 minutes.
I saw a couple of occassions where we pressed very well against Liverpool in the first half. I agree its early in the development of this team`s style but we also have to take into account the overall quality of the opposition, I said after the Man City v Liverpool game that the scousers were just a hair off with their link up play, unfortunately for us that improved for them on Sunday. We weren`t that bad, they were very good.
 

Mr Pink

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I saw a couple of occassions where we pressed very well against Liverpool in the first half. I agree its early in the development of this team`s style but we also have to take into account the overall quality of the opposition, I said after the Man City v Liverpool game that the scousers were just a hair off with their link up play, unfortunately for us that improved for them on Sunday. We weren`t that bad, they were very good.
Yeah that's why I said the opposition obviously play a part etc.

Its also why its significant to highlight the start of the game - before things become a bit more blurred - ie how much is it down to us just not playing particularly well and how much is it down to the opposition effectively thwarting us etc.

It really did feel like we were nervous and unsure from the off - and our play thereafter strongly resembled that.
 

stemark44

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Joined
Mar 17, 2005
Messages
6,598
Liverpool under Rodgers in their first season were very hit and miss and inconsistent. I suspect we might have to endure similar.
Only up until December,after that they seldom lost a game and were very impressive and very consistent.
 

Seth

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Joined
Dec 30, 2003
Messages
148
Dunno whos perf was worse, the manager or the players...from the first minute it was clear we had it wrong tactically, might have had a chance playing three in the middle with eriksen behind 2 strikers. Another manager without a plan B (sigh)
Poor subs, double changes never work, especially without changing tactics
Poor team selection, Id be interested to see winning percentages for unchanged sides, be surprised if its high
 

Conando

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Jan 28, 2004
Messages
661
Given our previous 2 results against Liverpool I can understand the tentative start.

It was also evident with the lack of a concerted effort we made to get back into the game; that the players were all too aware of Liverpool's potency on the counter.

I don't know whether that fear can be coached out of them or can be altered by smashing the weaker sides, it may take a result against a top team, which I suppose is Poch's paradox.
 
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Only up until December,after that they seldom lost a game and were very impressive and very consistent.
Rodgers had no Europa League though, he could coach all week leading up to each match. Poch will have a lot less time to work on that this year.
 

Bus-Conductor

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First of all, I don't expect us to be a well oiled machine whereby everything clicks instantly. I'm not that naive and I'm also prepared to be ultra patient with Pochettino, if it takes two to three seasons - so be it. I was a big advocate to get him and I'm delighted we have him.

That being said I anticipated you would do this to back up what you were arguing over the QPR game.

I didn't agree with your assessment on that game and I don't agree with it on this one either.

And there you go again talking extremes. I didn't declare it a complete disaster and failure. I've called it what I think it was...a poor performance, and I stand by that, it was poor IMO.

You're trying to imply that I'm all about instant gratification which is a bit of cheap shot really.

But what it is, is just one game. So there's no knee jerk reaction. I understand full well that there will be many bumps and blips on our road of development.

Its totally plausible to see a good performance one week and not such a good one the next week in the early teething stages of development.

Liverpool under Rodgers in their first season were very hit and miss and inconsistent. I suspect we might have to endure similar.

We played with much better intensity and urgency against QPR. We moved the ball quicker and our movement was sharper.

Now obviously, the opposition play a part in how successful you are at doing these things but you only have to look at the way we started both games to see the contrast. No high press, none. Adebayor et al came flying out of the traps against QPR, hungry to the win the ball back.

The difference was extremely noticeable and it sets the tone for the game. You'll recall that we were on the back foot immediately with Liverpool. Looking nervous and unsure from the off. They should of been a few goals up to. In other words our tentative start could of seen the game been all but over inside the first 20 minutes.

I think it was a hell of a lot easier to start well against a team who dropped off from the get go than against one who were well drilled and at it from the get go. And are good at being at it as well.

I guess we just see it differently. I don't think either were bad performances, but I think the biggest difference in our efficacy was the opposition.
 

Mr Pink

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I think it was a hell of a lot easier to start well against a team who dropped off from the get go than against one who were well drilled and at it from the get go. And are good at being at it as well.

I guess we just see it differently. I don't think either were bad performances, but I think the biggest difference in our efficacy was the opposition.
I agree the opposition plays a huge part but I also think part of that was psychological. Even Lloris looked nervous evidenced by his poor distribution.

We just looked a more confident, slicker and more composed side against QPR and played the better football for it. Yes, that's down to them letting us do that to an extent and Liverpool not so - but also its down to us just doing it to as obvious as it sounds ie playing better, making better choices, moving it quicker, less indecision/touches and more hungry to win it back.

You're the makers of your own destiny sort of thing. We started timidly against Liverpool and that played into their hands IMO.

Against QPR we came out of the traps quickly and they surrendered pretty much because of it. That's the way I see it and that's why I believe how you start a game can be vital. It sets the tone. Point being it was our forceful start to the game that affected QPR. Had we started that game slowly you probably would of seen a better performance from them, they would of grown into the game. Just like many sides, like Hull, did last season at WHL.

Like you say though, we all see it differently.
 
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Spurs_Bear

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I think it was a hell of a lot easier to start well against a team who dropped off from the get go than against one who were well drilled and at it from the get go. And are good at being at it as well.

I guess we just see it differently. I don't think either were bad performances, but I think the biggest difference in our efficacy was the opposition.
Seeing as you've ignored me twice I'll ask again in case you didn't see it? If Balotelli has his range, we're at least 3-0 down before Chadli gets that chance aren't we?

And what did you think of the quality of our passing?
 

Bus-Conductor

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Leaving your 60% to one side @Bus-Conductor, were you happy with how we passed the ball to each other? Were you not screaming blue murder the times Kaboul's heavy touch made his second touch a block tackle? Or how our midfielders were unable to find the full backs or attack minded players?

I'm shocked by your feelings on the game, but maybe as Mr Pink jested, which I wont jest as it's probably true, this was too much of an AVB type performance to go unnoticed, which is why you were happy enough.

I think it's the worst I've seen us play in a long time.
I'm not sure which feelings you are shocked about ?

Did I say I was happy with everything ? Did I say I was happy with everything we did under AVB ?

My stance is consistent. I think Pochettino faces many of the same challenges AVB did, and what we have seen in two of our three games (the only two against competently organised teams) was the same problems and a lot of the same tropes. But that doesn't mean that I think it is all shit. I liked what I believe AVB was trying to do, and I do with Pochettino and hope he can take that one step further, but no matter how good a coach you are you can't always make stupid ****s think like Iniesta and interact like Fabregas. Certainly not in a couple of weeks.

I like some of what we tried to do yesterday and think that as with AVB, some decent approach play some good situations were squandered by carelessness and dimwittedness.

I like an approach, a philosophy that has control of the ball as it's foundation. I don't like a fucking free for all and players given license to do what the fuck they like.

We are a long way from the ideal, the slick transitioning, tempo varying, cohesive high pressing, territory adjusting machine I'd like us to be. But at least I can see some evidence that our coach hasn't spent all week in the bogs reading the Racing Post. Rome wasn't built in a day and all that.


Why do you keep ignoring the fact that we could have been 4-0 by the time Chadli even had that chance?

Because it's not as simple as that for me and never will be. You don't just judge a game, performance or the big picture purely based on what happens in each goalmouth. Especially when you have also created two wonderful chances. (I only remember them creating their goal and Balotelli's header - Lloris gifted them a chance from 30 yards out but that's hardly about Liverpool's good play or our team, just an individual clusterfuck).
 

Bus-Conductor

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Seeing as you've ignored me twice I'll ask again in case you didn't see it? If Balotelli has his range, we're at least 3-0 down before Chadli gets that chance aren't we?

And what did you think of the quality of our passing?

Don't be such an impatient Bear, I was getting to you.
 

Mr Pink

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I'm not sure which feelings you are shocked about ?

Did I say I was happy with everything ? Did I say I was happy with everything we did under AVB ?

My stance is consistent. I think Pochettino faces many of the same challenges AVB did, and what we have seen in two of our three games (the only two against competently organised teams) was the same problems and a lot of the same tropes. But that doesn't mean that I think it is all shit. I liked what I believe AVB was trying to do, and I do with Pochettino and hope he can take that one step further, but no matter how good a coach you are you can't always make stupid ****s think like Iniesta and interact like Fabregas. Certainly not in a couple of weeks.

I like some of what we tried to do yesterday and think that as with AVB, some decent approach play some good situations were squandered by carelessness and dimwittedness.

I like an approach, a philosophy that has control of the ball as it's foundation. I don't like a fucking free for all and players given license to do what the fuck they like.

We are a long way from the ideal, the slick transitioning, tempo varying, cohesive high pressing, territory adjusting machine I'd like us to be.. Rome wasn't built in a day and all that.





Because it's not as simple as that for me and never will be. You don't just judge a game, performance or the big picture purely based on what happens in each goalmouth. Especially when you have also created two wonderful chances. (I only remember them creating their goal and Balotelli's header - Lloris gifted them a chance from 30 yards out but that's hardly about Liverpool's good play or our team, just an individual clusterfuck).
I'm not sure which feelings you are shocked about ?

Did I say I was happy with everything ? Did I say I was happy with everything we did under AVB ?

My stance is consistent. I think Pochettino faces many of the same challenges AVB did, and what we have seen in two of our three games (the only two against competently organised teams) was the same problems and a lot of the same tropes. But that doesn't mean that I think it is all shit. I liked what I believe AVB was trying to do, and I do with Pochettino and hope he can take that one step further, but no matter how good a coach you are you can't always make stupid ****s think like Iniesta and interact like Fabregas. Certainly not in a couple of weeks.

I like some of what we tried to do yesterday and think that as with AVB, some decent approach play some good situations were squandered by carelessness and dimwittedness.

I like an approach, a philosophy that has control of the ball as it's foundation. I don't like a fucking free for all and players given license to do what the fuck they like.

We are a long way from the ideal, the slick transitioning, tempo varying, cohesive high pressing, territory adjusting machine I'd like us to be. But at least I can see some evidence that our coach hasn't spent all week in the bogs reading the Racing Post. Rome wasn't built in a day and all that.





Because it's not as simple as that for me and never will be. You don't just judge a game, performance or the big picture purely based on what happens in each goalmouth. Especially when you have also created two wonderful chances. (I only remember them creating their goal and Balotelli's header - Lloris gifted them a chance from 30 yards out but that's hardly about Liverpool's good play or our team, just an individual clusterfuck).

That really did make me laugh out loud!! The highlighted part that is!!
 
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