Rating vs Liverpool

MOM

  • Lloris

    Votes: 23 10.8%
  • Rose

    Votes: 17 8.0%
  • Vertonghen

    Votes: 5 2.4%
  • Kaboul

    Votes: 1 0.5%
  • Dier

    Votes: 10 4.7%
  • Capoue

    Votes: 17 8.0%
  • Bentaleb

    Votes: 10 4.7%
  • Lamela

    Votes: 46 21.7%
  • Eriksen

    Votes: 4 1.9%
  • Chadli

    Votes: 32 15.1%
  • Adebayor

    Votes: 23 10.8%
  • Dembele

    Votes: 7 3.3%
  • Townsend

    Votes: 6 2.8%
  • Davies

    Votes: 13 6.1%

  • Total voters
    212

Spurs_Bear

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I'm not sure which feelings you are shocked about ?

Did I say I was happy with everything ? Did I say I was happy with everything we did under AVB ?

My stance is consistent. I think Pochettino faces many of the same challenges AVB did, and what we have seen in two of our three games (the only two against competently organised teams) was the same problems and a lot of the same tropes. But that doesn't mean that I think it is all shit. I liked what I believe AVB was trying to do, and I do with Pochettino and hope he can take that one step further, but no matter how good a coach you are you can't always make stupid ****s think like Iniesta and interact like Fabregas. Certainly not in a couple of weeks.

I like some of what we tried to do yesterday and think that as with AVB, some decent approach play some good situations were squandered by carelessness and dimwittedness.

I like an approach, a philosophy that has control of the ball as it's foundation. I don't like a fucking free for all and players given license to do what the fuck they like.

We are a long way from the ideal, the slick transitioning, tempo varying, cohesive high pressing, territory adjusting machine I'd like us to be. But at least I can see some evidence that our coach hasn't spent all week in the bogs reading the Racing Post. Rome wasn't built in a day and all that.
I'm shocked that you thought Sunday's wasn't a bad performance and you have basically just explained why I think it is pointless you coming into a ratings thread and giving 'ratings' for the individual match. I like Poch's approach too, and his methodology of how we play the game. But there was fuck all indication of that on Sunday apart from maybe 2 glimpses in 90 odd minutes, which is not enough in anyone's book. It's why I'm asking you about the performance in this game, leave his philosophy at the door on the way in, and judge the state of the carpet in the room you walk into, don't give every room the same mark because you like what they have done or are trying to do with the front porchway.

I was disgusted with the way our players genuinely looked like they couldn't control a football or find one of their own teammates from 6 yards away IN THIS GAME. Last week, I was delighted, and even though the opposition were a bit League One last Thursday, I was still relatively happy with what went on. THIS GAME though, it was awful.

bus-conductor said:
Because it's not as simple as that for me and never will be. You don't just judge a game, performance or the big picture purely based on what happens in each goalmouth. Especially when you have also created two wonderful chances. (I only remember them creating their goal and Balotelli's header - Lloris gifted them a chance from 30 yards out but that's hardly about Liverpool's good play or our team, just an individual clusterfuck).
I know, you judge a game on how much possession you have.

We created the Chadli chance because we pumped a ball forwards and both their centre backs missed it? How wonderfully crafted with wim and vigour eh??

Balotelli misses that piss easy header, he also has at least one chance at the back post from a set piece, and Sturridge curls one towards the far post that Lloris goes Hollywood on, while you salivate over Chadli missing a snapshot from outside the box that he should have done a lot better on.

Just be true to yourself, and the situation, judge this game on its merits, ignore the fact Capoue attempted 100 passes and the world will be a better place.
 
Last edited:

Bus-Conductor

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I'm shocked that you thought Sunday's wasn't a bad performance and you have basically just explained why I think it is pointless you coming into a ratings thread and giving 'ratings' for the individual match. I like Poch's approach too, and his methodology of how we play the game. But there was fuck all indication of that on Sunday apart from maybe 2 glimpses in 90 odd minutes, which is not enough in anyone's book.
But his philosophy isn't just one aspect. One trick. It isn't just about the press, or where the press happens. Or about the tempo and when it is applied or about possession and when and where we have it or about the defensive line and where it sits, or about the way the dynamics of the team off the ball interact or about how to juxtapose discipline with creative risk etc etc, it's about teaching 25 players of varying physical and mental capabilities all those things .

You don't just get hold of a group of fuckwits and turn them into Dortmund in three games.

It's why I'm asking you about the performance in this game leave his philosophy at the door at the way in, and judge the state of the carpet in the room you walk into, don't give every room the same mark because you like what they have done or are trying to do with the front porchway.
Which is exactly what I did every game so far. I just don't agree with you that everything was bad. I don't think we were vastly inferior to Liverpool in every way. But in understandable ways that I tried to explain. They didn't play us off the park and create a shit load of chances like they have the last two games we played them. They are a slick, well drilled outfit with very talented players who have a coherence that comes with time spent together with the same coach and methods.

We don't have that. Yet. Yes there was carelessness - I said that loud and clear - yes we weren't as slick and well disciplined or organised as them - I said that - and our creatives aren't as clever and coherent as theirs - I said that - and their defenders were slicker too - said that too - but all things considered this wasn't the embarrassing crap we witnessed the last two meetings. We looked after the ball better and if both teams had finished the chances they created first half it;s an even game that we've edged in terms of possession.

I liked the fact that our CM2 saw more of the ball than their 3. On another day, that might just convert to something more productive.

I was disgusted with the way our players genuinely looked like they couldn't control a football or find one of their own teammates from 6 yards away IN THIS GAME. Last week, I was delighted, and even though the opposition were a bit League One last Thursday, I was still relatively happy with what went on. THIS GAME though, it was awful.

Lets get some perspective. The fact that we completed nearly double the passes Liverpool did suggests not everything was mis controlled or ever pass was fucked up.

But carelessness is a feature of this group, I said the same last week against QPR, the difference was they were under zero pressure last week, this week they were so it became more of an issue.

But I'm not ignoring it. Go and read my rating s post again. Properly. Carelessness featured it it quite prominently.

But as I kept saying under AVB, Sherwood and now Pichettino, that is largely about these players, not the coach.

We created the Chadli chance because we pumped a ball forwards and both their centre backs missed it? How wonderfully crafted with wim and vigour eh??

Balotelli misses that piss easy header, he also has at least one chance at the back post from a set piece, and Sturridge curls one towards the far post that Lloris goes Hollywood on, while you salivate over Chadli missing a snapshot from outside the box that he should have done a lot better on.

Just be true to yourself, and the situation, judge this game on its merits, ignore the fact Capoue attempted 100 passes and the world will be a better place.
Come on Bear, you're (marginally) better than this. This is what I actually said about Capoue and our passing (and carelessness you say I was blind too):

Our approach play was very decent at times (we made almost twice as many passes Liverpool did) , we moved the ball well at times and created situations that floundered on the rocks of carelessness. We had twice as much ball in their third of the pitch. We also had 60% of the ball and completed 467 passes to their 280. Had 60% of the territory. Lots of approach, but just as we saw with previous regimes, lots of carelessness.

I spent all week discussing with @sloth my fear that we would lose this game in midfield. The truth was we lost everywhere but midfield, where Capoue (93/105) and Bentaleb were excellent in possession (not so out of possession but more about that later) with some very silly defending and some very careless play with the ball in the final third.

Despite scoring 4 goals, we failed to capitalise on several situations against a tragic QPR through stupid carelessness with the ball. This is a theme that has been endemic in this team for a long time, it won't be eradicated in a couple of weeks.

First Bentaleb, then Capoue don't track Henderson's run past them, it was good quick football but we could and should have defended it better, I was even a bit disappointed with Lloris.



Individual stuff:


Capoue - Let Henderson run past him for the first, but contributed a hell of a lot in terms of his passing, seeing the ball nearly as much as Liverpool's entire 3 man midfield.
 

Spurs_Bear

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Messages
14,180
So you said Bentaleb and Capoue were excellent in possession. Which they weren't.

You've ignored the fact we got two chances through long balls finding their way through rather than actually creating them. Again.

If we count up the chances at half time it would be 4-2 Liverpool, and that's being generous to say we created them. Again.

And to finish, you've used an example of us not being that bad because we made twice as many passes as Liverpool. Ignoring the fact they sat off and watched us pass at snails pace with zero movement and no penetration.

Pure class.
 

Mr Pink

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Aug 25, 2010
Messages
45,142
I do agree BC that the performance was nowhere near as bad as what we saw last season. Definitely agree on that.

I was disappointed with the performance but I do agree had we taken our chances it could of been a different story and that would of altered the perception of the performance somewhat.

For me though it's only one game and we were coming up against a better side a bit too early. That's why I was nervous about the game all week.

I just wanted to see a bit more fire in the belly sort of thing...really snapping into tackles, giving them some of their own medicine. That's why I think we let ourselves down a bit. And I still maintain that we didn't move the ball quick enough which it made easier for them to defend against.

The last half an hour was getting a bit embarrassing.
 

mpickard2087

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Messages
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I didn't see much of a performance personally, with or without the ball. Certain players who are crucial to our game were below par and stopped wanting it. The team as a whole was disjointed and not playing as a unit. Defensively second half we were a rabble at one point, as I said the other day we were lucky that Liverpool very generously just decided to sit back for the last 20 mins and see the game out as another really bad thrashing was on the cards.
 

Bus-Conductor

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So you said Bentaleb and Capoue were excellent in possession. Which they weren't.

You've ignored the fact we got two chances through long balls finding their way through rather than actually creating them. Again.

If we count up the chances at half time it would be 4-2 Liverpool, and that's being generous to say we created them. Again.

And to finish, you've used an example of us not being that bad because we made twice as many passes as Liverpool. Ignoring the fact they sat off and watched us pass at snails pace with zero movement and no penetration.

Pure class.

Bentaleb played that pass through to Adebayor, it wasn't an aimless punt that "found it's way through". This is the problem with your black and white bollocks Bear. We lose 3-0 it's all shit. We win 4-0 it's all good. It's rarely that simple.

And yes, I did use an example of our approach play as an example of how everything wasn't bad. Some of it was good. Some of it got players into good positions and situations that with a little more class or care could have produced something productive.

And Liverpool didn't simply do what QPR did last week. Which is why at half time the possession stats were so close at 52/48 - because they weren't just trying to let us have the ball.
 

Mr Pink

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I didn't see much of a performance personally, with or without the ball. Certain players who are crucial to our game were below par and stopped wanting it. The team as a whole was disjointed and not playing as a unit. Defensively second half we were a rabble at one point, as I said the other day we were lucky that Liverpool very generously just decided to sit back for the last 20 mins and see the game out as another really bad thrashing was on the cards.
Sterling should of made it four really.
 

Spurs_Bear

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14,180
Bentaleb played that pass through to Adebayor, it wasn't an aimless punt that "found it's way through". This is the problem with your black and white bollocks Bear. We lose 3-0 it's all shit. We win 4-0 it's all good. It's rarely that simple.

And yes, I did use an example of our approach play as an example of how everything wasn't bad. Some of it was good. Some of it got players into good positions and situations that with a little more class or care could have produced something productive.

And Liverpool didn't simply do what QPR did last week. Which is why at half time the possession stats were so close at 52/48 - because they weren't just trying to let us have the ball.
Black and white is better that head in own arse mate.
 

mpickard2087

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Sterling should of made it four really.
He should have, and we were all over the place. If he had put that in then it could have been any score. For some reason though they retreated and saw the game out. I find that pretty embarrassing thinking about it, that they showed mercy on us.
 

stemark44

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Mar 17, 2005
Messages
6,598
I didn't see much of a performance personally, with or without the ball. Certain players who are crucial to our game were below par and stopped wanting it. The team as a whole was disjointed and not playing as a unit. Defensively second half we were a rabble at one point, as I said the other day we were lucky that Liverpool very generously just decided to sit back for the last 20 mins and see the game out as another really bad thrashing was on the cards.
Yeah I would say for the last 30 minutes Liverpool didn't get out of second gear,in fact I felt they had a couple of more gears if they needed it throughout the match.
 

Bus-Conductor

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I've just watched their first goal again and it is a real clusterfuck. We all know Bentaleb then Capoue let Henderson run off them. That's the start of the clusterfuck, but then for reason's I don't understand, Kaboul breaks the defensive line and drops deeper than everyone else and plays both Balotelli and Henderson's run onside. He then points Sterling off to Dier who completely ignores him, marks no-one, leaving Sterling a free tap in, meanwhile Lloris just seems a bit flat footed to me.

There were so many chances for people to do the right thing to prevent that goal, and they all failed. I hope Pochettino can cut this shit out, because this was another endemic problem throughout last season.
 
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