Ratings v Asteras Tripolis

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LexingtonSpurs

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Aug 27, 2013
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11,384
#41
He should have been there instead of Harry, he wouldn't have tried to smother that free kick, he would have taken one touch then had a shot.
And, lets not kid ourselves, if Townsend had gotten a foot on that shot it would have ended up in row Z, instead of the back of the net.
 

LexingtonSpurs

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Joined
Aug 27, 2013
Messages
11,384
#42
@Bobbins @Coyboy @Sweech @Third Kit '87 @Sp3akerboxxx @Kaboul'sForehead

Ok, I'm intrigued. Why the mass of WTF and Dislike ratings when I've only said pretty much what everyone else is saying. Not that I'm questioning your ratings but I'd just like to know what I've said which is so 'out there' that's got all your feathers so ruffled?:rolleyes:
Don't want to speak for them - but generally when we win 5-1, there are not quite as many "poor" performances as you listed. You listed 5 players as having played "poor" - seems like an odd choice of words there - certainly there were moments when we could have played better, but on the whole, this players all played well enough to help the team to a 5-1 victory.
 

SteveH

BSoDL candidate for SW London
Joined
Jul 21, 2003
Messages
7,518
#43
Lloris - 8 Lost 0.5 for rushing out at 5-0
Dier - 6
Fazio - 7 - Very encouraging
Vertonghen - 6
Davies - 6
Capoue - 4 did not defend well enough (see below)
Dembele - 4 left midfield empty (see above)
Townsend - 3.9 looked rusty
Kane - 9 - Great game
Lamela - 7.5 - Best game so far - need to just shoot more. trust The Force Erik
Adebayor - 6.5 worked his nuts off
 

CrazyHeart

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Joined
Oct 26, 2013
Messages
2,341
#44
Have a look at the replays of all the goals. They all have one thing in common, which is that there's a pool of space around the Spurs scorer. Although Asteras did many things well, such as their crisp passing in midfield and their dissection of our offside trap, marking was not one of them (and finishing was not another). They just gave us way too much space in attack and when you have superior individual talent, that is how you score 5 goals with relative ease.

Now look at the contrast with a typical Premiership game, where Lamela (particularly) and Kane do not get 2m of comfort-zone in every direction and do not get to spend 0.75 seconds weighing up their decisions; 'I know: why don't I try a rabona?'

Kane is good at working space anyway, it's one of his main attributes and is why he gets away with being quite slow and stills scores goals (see also: Keane, Robbie). But it was a luxury for him that he sometimes had a choice of spaces to drift into.

For Lamela, it's an object-lesson: he absolutely must learn how to deliver this kind of inspiration even when he has two defenders all over him. It's the next step after his physical strength work during the off-season. He's nearly strong enough now, but he has to figure out how to do what he does in restricted spaces.

What was wrong with our defending was that our offside trap was very unreliable and we played a high line even after we had a 3 goal lead. Why would we want to do that? We had already shown that we could work opportunities without having to compress the play, so why push up even after Asteras had repeatedly shown that they could ping the ball neatly behind our defensive line?

Lloris 6.5 Loses a point for bad judgment, even though he was dumped in it by his defenders.

Dier 6 Some good moments, but messy offside trap timing.

Jan 6 OK, a bit anonymous.

Fazio 6.5 Extra half point for the assist.

Davies 5.5 Similarly to Dier, he doesn't quite get the offside trap, but also he drifted inside too often, tempting Asteras to ping numerous balls in behind our left side, which they duly did. Otherwise, good marking and decent passing.

Capoue 7 I can't work out why he is getting blamed by some for 'not protecting the defence'. Nearly all of Asteras' chances came from balls over the top or aerial balls in behind where Davies should have been. It's not Capoue's job to deal with these, indeed it's physically impossible for him to prevent them. His passing was sharp and his ball-winning was good. That's what he was there to deliver.

Dembélé 6.5 Although it was a good quality overall performance from Dembélé, winning and controlling possession and running the ball forward to relieve or apply pressure, he remains the most infuriating player to watch, because he simply cannot see when to release the ball. There must have been 5 occasions when everyone was willing him to shoot, or half the stadium could see an opportunity for him to play someone in, but instead he would take another few steps, dribble a bit further and ruin into a dead-end. If this man had better game-vision, he'd be a world-beater, but instead, he's just good. Finally, he unleashed a shot and it led to a goal. How long before he tries another one? A month?

Townsend 6 OK ernough, but a bit muted. Played his part, got one hard shot on target.

Lamela 7.5 As well as scoring his rabona and his volley, he worked hard, closed down and tried creative things. Just before his first goal, he had tried three creative moves in succession and failed to execute all of them, but he kept trying and finally things worked for him. Now he has to figure out how to do that under more physical pressure.

Kane 8 With every game, I have a stronger sense that Kane is going to be our no. 1 striker quite soon. As well as having a gift for finding the right place to be, he scores a variety of goals and plays multiple roles in our buildup (and I don't mean goalkeeper) and sees the game well. In the first half, he found himself in the right back position, looked up and sent a precise cross-field aerial about 50m to [can't remember who received it ... Davies?] running up the left. Lovely. And a hat trick. And probably a sleepless night...

Adebayor 6 He's not our point man for scoring goals in this formation. He's part of a rotating 4 man attack and his hold-up play and distracting presence are just as important as his [presently non-existent] goal-scoring. No one has mentioned his important assist, where he held the ball up under pressure from about 3 opponents for about 3 seconds, before squirting it to Lamela. He still has his uses, even while we wait for his goal-scoring touch to return.

It was plain that Pochettino issued instructions about pressing at half time. We hadn't been doing much of it until then and, in the first 10 minutes of the second half, everyone got right in Asteras' faces in midfield. Why don't they do it from the first whistle? It's not a 'philosophy' that takes months to learn, they just have to remember/bother to do it.

It was fun game to watch and quite relaxing because we were ahead from so early.
Are you sure Adebayor assisted the Lamela goal? Looked like a poor clearance by an Asteras defender.
 

CrazyHeart

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Joined
Oct 26, 2013
Messages
2,341
#48
You are correct, Ade had nothing to do with that goal
I'm stating that Lamela's goal was not the culmination of an Adebayor assist, which it clearly wasn't. Now, I will give Ade kudos for pressuring defenders and pushing forward, but to credit him with an assist when it was not his intention is unreasonable.
 

Mattspur

Pull my finger
Joined
Jan 7, 2004
Messages
3,912
#49
Don't want to speak for them - but generally when we win 5-1, there are not quite as many "poor" performances as you listed. You listed 5 players as having played "poor" - seems like an odd choice of words there - certainly there were moments when we could have played better, but on the whole, this players all played well enough to help the team to a 5-1 victory.
Fair enough, but having had time to reflect on the performance (not the result) I'm happy enough with the ratings I gave out. We played a poor team and it was one of those days where pretty much everything we hit went in. They had some great chances and cut our defence open far more than they should have. We had 3 good performers that won us the game in Lloris, Lamela and Kane. If we defended like that in the PL we would have got hammered and judging by MP's comments after the match it would seem he agrees with me, or rather, I agree with him.
 

Bulletspur

The Reasonable Advocate
Joined
Oct 17, 2006
Messages
6,872
#50
I'm stating that Lamela's goal was not the culmination of an Adebayor assist, which it clearly wasn't. Now, I will give Ade kudos for pressuring defenders and pushing forward, but to credit him with an assist when it was not his intention is unreasonable.
So the defender was always going to pass it to Lamela?
My opinion is that Ade was trying to get the ball in order to shoot himself, never was going to pass to Lamela. I could be wrong though
 

Bobbins

SC's 14th Sexiest Male 2008
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18,039
#51

davidmatzdorf

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Messages
11,201
#52
You are correct, Ade had nothing to do with that goal
Watching it again, the ball toward Lamela did indeed come off a defender, but to say that it had 'nothing to do' with the teammate who had hung onto the ball, under pressure from 2-3 opponents, for a few seconds before it flew out of the scrum is just anti-Adebayor bigotry.

Had Adebayor not been there, working the ball and fighting for possession, Lamela never would have got that chance.

Plainly, I had a disadvantage, having actually seen the game live and only once.
 

Mattspur

Pull my finger
Joined
Jan 7, 2004
Messages
3,912
#54
Lamela - 7

That's pretty much a major WTF moment mate.
The goal was incredible and the second wasn't to shabby either but my rating was for the whole time he was on the pitch not just his moment of magic, which was a 10 out of 10 moment, but for me, overall he played well, I don't see whats wrong with that. He certainly didn't have a bad game but at the same time it was far from a faultless performance. I'm a big fan of Lamela and my mark wasn't intended to put him down. I suppose I've grown out of just thinking someone was spectacular because they scored an incredible goal (or two). In my ranking system 7 is a good mark. I see there's a few posters who've given him a 7.5 so I'm not that far off the mark.
 
Last edited:

dynamoSpurs

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 29, 2006
Messages
2,718
#55
Have a look at the replays of all the goals. They all have one thing in common, which is that there's a pool of space around the Spurs scorer. Although Asteras did many things well, such as their crisp passing in midfield and their dissection of our offside trap, marking was not one of them (and finishing was not another). They just gave us way too much space in attack and when you have superior individual talent, that is how you score 5 goals with relative ease.

Now look at the contrast with a typical Premiership game, where Lamela (particularly) and Kane do not get 2m of comfort-zone in every direction and do not get to spend 0.75 seconds weighing up their decisions; 'I know: why don't I try a rabona?'

Kane is good at working space anyway, it's one of his main attributes and is why he gets away with being quite slow and stills scores goals (see also: Keane, Robbie). But it was a luxury for him that he sometimes had a choice of spaces to drift into.

For Lamela, it's an object-lesson: he absolutely must learn how to deliver this kind of inspiration even when he has two defenders all over him. It's the next step after his physical strength work during the off-season. He's nearly strong enough now, but he has to figure out how to do what he does in restricted spaces.

What was wrong with our defending was that our offside trap was very unreliable and we played a high line even after we had a 3 goal lead. Why would we want to do that? We had already shown that we could work opportunities without having to compress the play, so why push up even after Asteras had repeatedly shown that they could ping the ball neatly behind our defensive line?

Lloris 6.5 Loses a point for bad judgment, even though he was dumped in it by his defenders.

Dier 6 Some good moments, but messy offside trap timing.

Jan 6 OK, a bit anonymous.

Fazio 6.5 Extra half point for the assist.

Davies 5.5 Similarly to Dier, he doesn't quite get the offside trap, but also he drifted inside too often, tempting Asteras to ping numerous balls in behind our left side, which they duly did. Otherwise, good marking and decent passing.

Capoue 7 I can't work out why he is getting blamed by some for 'not protecting the defence'. Nearly all of Asteras' chances came from balls over the top or aerial balls in behind where Davies should have been. It's not Capoue's job to deal with these, indeed it's physically impossible for him to prevent them. His passing was sharp and his ball-winning was good. That's what he was there to deliver.

Dembélé 6.5 Although it was a good quality overall performance from Dembélé, winning and controlling possession and running the ball forward to relieve or apply pressure, he remains the most infuriating player to watch, because he simply cannot see when to release the ball. There must have been 5 occasions when everyone was willing him to shoot, or half the stadium could see an opportunity for him to play someone in, but instead he would take another few steps, dribble a bit further and ruin into a dead-end. If this man had better game-vision, he'd be a world-beater, but instead, he's just good. Finally, he unleashed a shot and it led to a goal. How long before he tries another one? A month?

Townsend 6 OK ernough, but a bit muted. Played his part, got one hard shot on target.

Lamela 7.5 As well as scoring his rabona and his volley, he worked hard, closed down and tried creative things. Just before his first goal, he had tried three creative moves in succession and failed to execute all of them, but he kept trying and finally things worked for him. Now he has to figure out how to do that under more physical pressure.

Kane 8 With every game, I have a stronger sense that Kane is going to be our no. 1 striker quite soon. As well as having a gift for finding the right place to be, he scores a variety of goals and plays multiple roles in our buildup (and I don't mean goalkeeper) and sees the game well. In the first half, he found himself in the right back position, looked up and sent a precise cross-field aerial about 50m to [can't remember who received it ... Davies?] running up the left. Lovely. And a hat trick. And probably a sleepless night...

Adebayor 6 He's not our point man for scoring goals in this formation. He's part of a rotating 4 man attack and his hold-up play and distracting presence are just as important as his [presently non-existent] goal-scoring. No one has mentioned his important assist, where he held the ball up under pressure from about 3 opponents for about 3 seconds, before squirting it to Lamela. He still has his uses, even while we wait for his goal-scoring touch to return.

It was plain that Pochettino issued instructions about pressing at half time. We hadn't been doing much of it until then and, in the first 10 minutes of the second half, everyone got right in Asteras' faces in midfield. Why don't they do it from the first whistle? It's not a 'philosophy' that takes months to learn, they just have to remember/bother to do it.

It was fun game to watch and quite relaxing because we were ahead from so early.
Tbh he didn't have that much time to weigh up his options. Pass came short and he just did it. So not sure I see the logic. Still don't rate Lamela though.
 

spurs9

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 31, 2012
Messages
8,508
#56
Watching it again, the ball toward Lamela did indeed come off a defender, but to say that it had 'nothing to do' with the teammate who had hung onto the ball, under pressure from 2-3 opponents, for a few seconds before it flew out of the scrum is just anti-Adebayor bigotry.

Had Adebayor not been there, working the ball and fighting for possession, Lamela never would have got that chance.

Plainly, I had a disadvantage, having actually seen the game live and only once.
You should watch the goal again because Ade didn't hang onto the ball he took a touch, was tackled, tried to win it back, got a loose touch, then the defender touched it onto Lamela.
 
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