Ratings v Forest

MOTM?


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DaSpurs

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Thought the team was fucking rancid for 70 minutes not enough pace and aggression, still playing the AVB way pass pass side pass back pass pass shit shot, start again, Mason changed the game in his cameo but lets not get ahead of ourselves and fuck him in against the scum, happy RS got one bout time would like him to start against Arsenal with Lamela and CE giving him service, inverted wingers doesn't work.

Naughton had a solid game MOTM
Inverted wingers work plenty fine when they have consistent space to operate in. Due to the fact we're constantly playing sideways in midfield, we're very predictable and easy to shut down supply lanes. Teams know to compact the box quickly against us because they know we have no supply from deep. And so yes, in our current setup (until Mason or another quick transitional passer becomes more prominent), inverted wingers will struggle.
 

eddiebailey

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I listened on the radio (and so have not commented much on the game). Danny Mills predicted that with the amount of possession Spurs were having Forest would wear themselves out and opportunities would open up. To an extent that is what happened, but I am not sure it would have happened without Mason. I do hope though that we did not approach the game with that very AVB-esque mindset. It must be immensly frustrating for those players who do want to make things happen if team-mates are more concerned with maintaining possession.
 
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I listened on the radio (and so have not commented much on the game). Danny Mills predicted that with the amount of possession Spurs were having Forest would wear themselves out and opportunities would open up. To an extent that is what happened, but I am not sure it would have happened without Mason. I do hope though that we did not approach the game with that very AVB-esque mindset. It must be immensly frustrating for those players who do want to make things happen if team-mates are more concerned with maintaining possession.

Heaven forbid we should enter games with the record scoring, championship winning, UEFA Cup winning AVB Porto mind set eh.

Does it occur to you that what we have seen under successive managers now, even when Sherwood hid the tactics white board, is a collective lack of intelligence form this bunch of players.

Adebayor has looked even worse under Pochettino than he did when given a fair crack by AVB. And Bale somehow managed to look less mentally shackled under AVB than he had under that tactical libertarian Reknapp.

Is it time to maybe start accepting that it wasn't all AVB's brainwash ?
 

Coyboy

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Heaven forbid we should enter games with the record scoring, championship winning, UEFA Cup winning AVB Porto mind set eh.

Does it occur to you that what we have seen under successive managers now, even when Sherwood hid the tactics white board, is a collective lack of intelligence form this bunch of players.

Adebayor has looked even worse under Pochettino than he did when given a fair crack by AVB. And Bale somehow managed to look less mentally shackled under AVB than he had under that tactical libertarian Reknapp.

Is it time to maybe start accepting that it wasn't all AVB's brainwash ?
Gross won the Swiss Championship with Grasshoppers.

Whether AVB had a more positive mind-set at Porto or not is irrelevant. He couldn't bring that across to England with us or Chelsea. There may be lots of reasons for that but the simple answer is probably the most likely: he isn't a good enough coach to get teams playing attractive and goal scoring football regularly against your garden variety English teams.

And Bale is Bale. He has continued to excel at Real Madrid. He would have excelled if you or I were the coach.
 

Spursidol

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I disagree about Capoue. He is nothing like Stambouli. I think he's a much better option in a CM2 than Mason (although maybe him and Mason could work ?), and his passing is very good and not slow or unprogressive. I'm not sure who we are comparing Capoue to when people say his passing isn't good enough ? Which teams have got CM's who's passing is better ?
Capoue's pasing is ok - but it is not fast/instinctive, and that's why we do struggle to ger the ball forward quickly (I sem to recall that evem Poch has commented on that). He also does not have the vision of where other players are. He's showing this season that he's got the other DM attributes, and whilst we haven't seen that much of Stambouli I like what I see, although again his forward passing is not being made at that speed we need. But both are very decent players.

By comparison MS at Southampton is a better forward passer than Capoue and Stambouli, but doesn't have the same quality of vision that Mason has. However Southampton stiill wanted £25m for him - which is over the top but I could cerainly understand a ptce of say £15m for him - higher than we paid for Capoue because he's a much better passer.

At CM we need both the defensive qualities and the skill to pass the vall forward quicly and incisively to forward players. We've got the defensive qualities covered with Capoue and Stambouli, but the time to pick a pass is simply too slow.

In pre-season Capoue/Mason looked a very good duo because of their differing attributes, and we need to see if that works as well against a higher level of opposition. Not to say that we do not experiment with other combinations, but we do need to improve the speed and vision of forward passing from CM - otherwise Poch's system isn't going to work properly.
 

eddiebailey

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Jake Livermore's passing isn't as good as Capoue's.
Not necessarily who I had in mind, but while Jake does not have great vision, something he does do is drop looping forward balls into space in the expectation that a team-mate will expect the ball and make the run. He passes to where a team-mate should be rather than dallying to see where he actually is. As discussed earlier that is something we could do with a bit more of.
 

jezz

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Not necessarily who I had in mind, but while Jake does not have great vision, something he does do is drop looping forward balls into space in the expectation that a team-mate will expect the ball and make the run. He passes to where a team-mate should be rather than dallying to see where he actually is. As discussed earlier that is something we could do with a bit more of.
Bit hard to play like this, when you play high press.
Although I didn't see a lot of this last night.
 
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Capoue's pasing is ok - but it is not fast/instinctive, and that's why we do struggle to ger the ball forward quickly (I sem to recall that evem Poch has commented on that). He also does not have the vision of where other players are. He's showing this season that he's got the other DM attributes, and whilst we haven't seen that much of Stambouli I like what I see, although again his forward passing is not being made at that speed we need. But both are very decent players.

By comparison MS at Southampton is a better forward passer than Capoue and Stambouli, but doesn't have the same quality of vision that Mason has. However Southampton stiill wanted £25m for him - which is over the top but I could cerainly understand a ptce of say £15m for him - higher than we paid for Capoue because he's a much better passer.

At CM we need both the defensive qualities and the skill to pass the vall forward quicly and incisively to forward players. We've got the defensive qualities covered with Capoue and Stambouli, but the time to pick a pass is simply too slow.

In pre-season Capoue/Mason looked a very good duo because of their differing attributes, and we need to see if that works as well against a higher level of opposition. Not to say that we do not experiment with other combinations, but we do need to improve the speed and vision of forward passing from CM - otherwise Poch's system isn't going to work properly.

MS isn't a much better passer than Capoue. He may be a tad more dynamic, but that's it.

I'm not even sure MS is a very much better (progressive, incisive) passer than Bentaleb. A bit further down the production line perhaps.

I don't dislike Mason at all, would have liked to see him get his chance much sooner. Happy for him to get some more time. But, in terms of his general play, I don't think he's shown anything remotely exceptional in his couple of pre season games and 20 minutes against Forest reserves. If you remember it was Capoue making the incisive forward passes in pre season, setting up goals and chances, not Mason.
 
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Not necessarily who I had in mind, but while Jake does not have great vision, something he does do is drop looping forward balls into space in the expectation that a team-mate will expect the ball and make the run. He passes to where a team-mate should be rather than dallying to see where he actually is. As discussed earlier that is something we could do with a bit more of.

Amazing he's ended up at Hull's used Spurs scrapyard with all his visionary passing then really isn't it EB ?

It's hard to take some of the shit that gets posted on here seriously.
 

jezz

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MS isn't a much better passer than Capoue. He may be a tad more dynamic, but that's it.

I don't dislike Mason at all, would have liked to see him get his chance much sooner. Happy for him to get some more time. But, in terms of his general play, I don't think he's shown anything remotely exceptional in his couple of pre season games and 20 minutes against Forest reserves. If you remember it was Capoue making the incisive forward passes in pre season, setting up goals and chances, not Mason.
Sometimes player's just click, I thought they had decent partnership preseason.
 

jezz

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Amazing he's ended up at Hull's used Spurs scrapyard with all his visionary passing then really isn't it EB ?

It's hard to take some of the shit that gets posted on here seriously.
I think Eddie is infuring if Tim was still here so would Jake.
 

Mr Pink

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We really do have to keep reminding ourselves what this kid is achieving for his age. He's a 19yo being asked to play in a CM2 (he's spent a lot of his development playing a 433) against the big boys and he's still making a fucking decent show. He never hides, sees shitloads of ball, tries to be progressive when possible but gets annoyed with himself when he fucks up, and isn't scared to give others a bollocking either when they fuck up.

I was probably harsh on him as well, especially given the witless bunch he had a head of him last night, there were several occasions when he was desperately seeking some movement and there was Lennon, Paulinho, Soldado and Townsend all just stood still waiting for a fucking miracle.

Reading back I see plenty were generous to Stambouli who contributed far less. I'm beginning to worry that for some, Bentaleb's face isn't fitting for some reason. It's starting to feel like Jenas all over again. Because he isn't charging around flying into tackles, getting booked in the 5th minute or hitting 50 yard diagonals at peoples throats people are incapable of seeing what a player like this is bringing.

He's helping us dominate and ware down the opposition, he's always giving others an outlet, and moving it on, usually pretty swiftly. It's not his fault that ahead of him players just aren't delivering much productivity or intelligence.

We've got a 19yo kid who's getting the blame because others are fucking hiding and showing no brain or bollocks.
It was his aggressive pressing that enabled our third goal. I re watched it earlier, it really was fantastic. He then set Lamela free who slid it in for Kane. I love picking moves apart and going back to source - and Bentaleb's role in the third goal was significant.

He made plenty of mistakes in possession, but like you say - the shocking movement ahead of him for the best part of 70 minutes would put anyone in a tough spot. No wonder he had turn round and play back sometimes.

We make it so easy for the opposition to cut off passing lanes, because our off the ball movement is so poor at the moment.

But the kid never hides and he's got a huge future ahead of him IMO.
 

eddiebailey

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Amazing he's ended up at Hull's used Spurs scrapyard with all his visionary passing then really isn't it EB ?

It's hard to take some of the shit that gets posted on here seriously.
So did you completely misunderstand my post? For instance the bit where I said he doesn't have great vision?

What he does is transition to attack quickly, or attempts to. As often as not he just ends up pumping the ball into empty space, because he does not have a clue where his team mates are. But if a team mate spots the intention and is able to make up the ground it can cut the opposition up like a knife through butter. Which can be more productive than Capoue or Dembele agonising before making a sideways pass to a team mate who passes it back to them.

And while I do not rate him particularly, there are other midfielders at Spurs who I would have sent to the scrapyard first. Work rate and attacking intent are qualities we are a bit lacking in right now, as is giving a damn.
 
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It was his aggressive pressing that enabled our third goal. I re watched it earlier, it really was fantastic. He then set Lamela free who slid it in for Kane. I love picking moves apart and going back to source - and Bentaleb's role in the third goal was significant.

He made plenty of mistakes in possession, but like you say - the shocking movement ahead of him for the best part of 70 minutes would put anyone in a tough spot. No wonder he had turn round and play back sometimes.

We make it so easy for the opposition to cut off passing lanes, because our off the ball movement is so poor at the moment.

But the kid never hides and he's got a huge future ahead of him IMO.

I just went back and watched this MrP. And you are quite right. Good spot.

Whilst watching it I noticed something I hadn't before. Watch Lamela as he gets on the ball and then plays the through ball for Kane, I'm sure he actually glances to his left to disguise the fact that he's playing the through ball another direction.
 

Mr Pink

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I just went back and watched this MrP. And you are quite right. Good spot.

Whilst watching it I noticed something I hadn't before. Watch Lamela as he gets on the ball and then plays the through ball for Kane, I'm sure he actually glances to his left to disguise the fact that he's playing the through ball another direction.
Yeah I thought that as well but wasn't sure first couple of times watching it. Having watched the goal and the complete phase of play in the build up to it several times, the last time I watched it I did think that's what Lamela was doing.

One of the Forest defenders hesitates a slight touch, that was making me think he disguised it. Cracking ball though.

Do you think Lamela would fair better in the number ten position than playing in the nominal right sided role? I know they interchange in the three a lot but I would play him in the number ten spot I think.
 
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So did you completely misunderstand my post? For instance the bit where I said he doesn't have great vision?

What he does is transition to attack quickly, or attempts to. As often as not he just ends up pumping the ball into empty space, because he does not have a clue where his team mates are. But if a team mate spots the intention and is able to make up the ground it can cut the opposition up like a knife through butter. Which can be more productive than Capoue or Dembele agonising before making a sideways pass to a team mate who passes it back to them.

And while I do not rate him particularly, there are other midfielders at Spurs who I would have sent to the scrapyard first. Work rate and attacking intent are qualities we are a bit lacking in right now, as is giving a damn.

See attempting to and doing are not the same. Unlike you I don't really put much value on a player who can "pump a ball into an empty space"

I have issues with Dembele's penchant for holding onto the ball in midfield, but you can't expect me to take seriously your suggestion that either of Livermore or Huddlestone are better options than the ones we have now. Capoue has Huddlestone's passing range and vision and is also able to move quicker than a beached whale and Bentaleb is twice the player in every way that Livermore is.

I wouldn't swap Livermore and Hudd together for just one of Bentaleb or Capoue.
 
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Yeah I thought that as well but wasn't sure first couple of times watching it. Having watched the goal and the complete phase of play in the build up to it several times, the last time I watched it I did think that's what Lamela was doing.

One of the Forest defenders hesitates a slight touch, that was making me think he disguised it. Cracking ball though.

Do you think Lamela would fair better in the number ten position than playing in the nominal right sided role? I know they interchange in the three a lot but I would play him in the number ten spot I think.

How would you line up others around him then ?
 
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