Ratings v Forest

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Coyboy

The Double of 1961 is still The Double
Joined
Dec 3, 2004
Messages
14,420
And I've explained to you why your observation and judgement is subjective.

And I didn't say I didn't appreciate the attacking football AVB presided over at Porto, I explained to you the reason a cited it.

And that was my very simple initial point that you dragged off topic. That players at the clubs AVB has managed, have been a major influence on how those teams have played, and within the framework and structure a coach can imbue, this is invariably a truism.


I will explain this again for you. This is the very simple point that I made in the post you took so much umbrage to:

I do not think everything that was wrong, especially with our creativity, was down to AVB. I think this has and is evidenced by some of what we have and are still seeing. It is about the collective wit and craft of the players in this current group.

If you agree, fine. If you disagree fine. But lets keep it to this point from here on in because I really can't be arsed to play this attritional bullshit game with you.
You do have this childish atavistic tendency to just repeat what I'm saying in a "no you are" "no you started it" manner.

My view that it's easier to do well in Portugal than England may be subjective in which case explain to me why I'm wrong.

The second and third paragraphs are circular waffle and not worth responding to.

No one is saying that AVB was all bad or all good, and that wasn't your initial point. You responded to some specific indirect criticism of AVB and jumped off the deep end with impertinent statements taking the issue way off course.

This is the simple point: it's a fact if not a common axiom that we played unadventurous cautious football this time last year. Either that was AVB's intention- or mindset; or as you say the players who as I've shown you weren't same as Wednesday are incompetent. Whichever is the case, AVB's record at Porto has no bearing on his time here.
 
Joined
Oct 19, 2004
Messages
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You do have this childish atavistic tendency to just repeat what I'm saying in a "no you are" "no you started it" manner.

My view that it's easier to do well in Portugal than England may be subjective in which case explain to me why I'm wrong.

The second and third paragraphs are circular waffle and not worth responding to.

No one is saying that AVB was all bad or all good, and that wasn't your initial point. You responded to some specific indirect criticism of AVB and jumped off the deep end with impertinent statements taking the issue way off course.

This is the simple point: it's a fact if not a common axiom that we played unadventurous cautious football this time last year. Either that was AVB's intention- or mindset; or as you say the players who as I've shown you weren't same as Wednesday are incompetent. Whichever is the case, AVB's record at Porto has no bearing on his time here.

Here is my original response to EB's post about AVB's influence on our play:

Heaven forbid we should enter games with the record scoring, championship winning, UEFA Cup winning AVB Porto mind set eh.

Does it occur to you that what we have seen under successive managers now, even when Sherwood hid the tactics white board, is a collective lack of intelligence form this bunch of players.

Adebayor has looked even worse under Pochettino than he did when given a fair crack by AVB. And Bale somehow managed to look less mentally shackled under AVB than he had under that tactical libertarian Reknapp.

Is it time to maybe start accepting that it wasn't all AVB's brainwash ?


I think it was pretty clear - especially after the last line - what my point was.

That it wasn't all AVB's mindset that was the problem. That with a decent players, as in Portugal, or Bale with us, his mindset has been proven not to be negative as inferred by EB. That he doesn't brainwash every player he encounters into negative actions.

My point was that players intellect has and is playing a big part in that.

I have stuck to that central point throughout this discussion with you. I still have no idea whether you agree or disagree with this. Possibly because you have no interest in actually having a normal discussion about this actual issue ?
 

Coyboy

The Double of 1961 is still The Double
Joined
Dec 3, 2004
Messages
14,420
Here is my original response to EB's post about AVB's influence on our play:





I think it was pretty clear - especially after the last line - what my point was.

That it wasn't all AVB's mindset that was the problem. That with a decent players, as in Portugal, or Bale with us, his mindset has been proven not to be negative as inferred by EB. That he doesn't brainwash every player he encounters into negative actions.

My point was that players intellect has and is playing a big part in that.

I have stuck to that central point throughout this discussion with you. I still have no idea whether you agree or disagree with this. Possibly because you have no interest in actually having a normal discussion about this actual issue ?
You haven't stuck to that at all but never mind. You also mean implied not inferred. You inferred.

But it's pure hyperbole and wild inference to use terms like "brainwash". No one has suggested it's all AVB's fault. They are criticising the football we played under him and spotting a similarity in one game; with half a different team; 12 months later.

Players' intellect is an entirely different discussion for another day.
 
Joined
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Messages
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You haven't stuck to that at all but never mind. You also mean implied not inferred. You inferred.

But it's pure hyperbole and wild inference to use terms like "brainwash". No one has suggested it's all AVB's fault. They are criticising the football we played under him and spotting a similarity in one game; with half a different team; 12 months later.

Players' intellect is an entirely different discussion for another day.

Isn't a day when we have once again failed to create much of quality as good a day as any to discuss our players intellect ?

What day did you have in mind ?
 

Coyboy

The Double of 1961 is still The Double
Joined
Dec 3, 2004
Messages
14,420
Isn't a day when we have once again failed to create much of quality as good a day as any to discuss our players intellect ?

What day did you have in mind ?
Not when it's different players and next thing you know you're pontificating about Townsend 's grasp of Dosteovesky.
 

Spursidol

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 15, 2007
Messages
12,636
Saying he didn't get us playing well is massively over simplistic and very subjective and is a very complex argument.
No its not.

He prodced some of the most boring football ever served up at Spurs.

His only idea of attack appears to be to instruct Townsend to race up to the opposition and either shoot or pass to someone in the box. Since Soldado was usually isiolatedc in the box with no support (remember the thread on this BC ???) the cloice was usually to shoot. And we know this because it happened in about 20 succesive gamers - so if AVB as coach didn't like it he could have re-coached Townsend or dropped him. And @beats1 has several times given you identical criticism of other players AVB coached at Porto doing exactly the same things - so its no coincidence.

But he didn't drop or change Townsend, so he was either agreeiong with Townsend's choices it or the shttiest blind coach that ever lived not to see it.

Lots of other examples - such as Spurs having such slow forward passing from CM (in turn meaning that our foirwards were being marked by the opposition defence who had time to prepare due to slowness of the attack nuild up) in turn due to AVB buying the likes of Paulhino to play there. This is a problem that Poch commented on earlier this season - so it not just my opinion

Suggest you look at some basic facts before expressing your opinions on AVB based upon nothing more than hot air.

Now I'm done with debating AVB - other than having to recognise the damage his coaching regime and failure to bring through youth (Bentaleb, Mason, Kane et al), all problems for Poch to try to unwind now.
 
Joined
Oct 19, 2004
Messages
39,837
No its not.

He prodced some of the most boring football ever served up at Spurs.

His only idea of attack appears to be to instruct Townsend to race up to the opposition and either shoot or pass to someone in the box. Since Soldado was usually isiolatedc in the box with no support (remember the thread on this BC ???) the cloice was usually to shoot. And we know this because it happened in about 20 succesive gamers - so if AVB as coach didn't like it he could have re-coached Townsend or dropped him. And @beats1 has several times given you identical criticism of other players AVB coached at Porto doing exactly the same things - so its no coincidence.

But he didn't drop or change Townsend, so he was either agreeiong with Townsend's choices it or the shttiest blind coach that ever lived not to see it.

Lots of other examples - such as Spurs having such slow forward passing from CM (in turn meaning that our foirwards were being marked by the opposition defence who had time to prepare due to slowness of the attack nuild up) in turn due to AVB buying the likes of Paulhino to play there. This is a problem that Poch commented on earlier this season - so it not just my opinion

Suggest you look at some basic facts before expressing your opinions on AVB based upon nothing more than hot air.

Now I'm done with debating AVB - other than having to recognise the damage his coaching regime and failure to bring through youth (Bentaleb, Mason, Kane et al), all problems for Poch to try to unwind now.

I think you need to calm down and think it through SI.

Redknapp had Townsend playing that way, cutting in and shooting before AVB started playing him in that role. And when he was doing that for England you were lauding him as England's saviour.

We know what AVB was telling him because he and his dad both told us. WORKING ON VARYING HIS PLAY SO HE WASN"T PREDICTABLE.

The problem isn't what Redknapp, AVB or Hodgson had him doing. It is the most sensible way for him to play. The problem is his ability to do it well. His inability to just get his head up, compose himself and deliver a cross to someone, or a shot that's actually on target. And his cognitive ability to learn from these mistakes and improve the decisions and execution of those decisions.

If you think back to one of his first games (might have even been his first) he did exactly the same and scored a goal against some lower league cup team I think. That was about 4 years before AVB had set foot in England. And he's been doing the same thing ever since. Just more recently from a different starting point.

This AVB ruined him in two months bullshit is waring very thin and does you no favours credibility wise. Like Pochettino is telling him something different now and Townsend'd brain is unable to compute because in two months AVB brainwashed him. It's loony toons stuff.
 

Dan Yeats

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 12, 2011
Messages
2,796
Kyle Naughton, much derided when being played out of position on the left, was fucking EXCELLENT tonight.

I also want to bed Ryan Mason, obviously.
The number of 'agree' ratings I picked up off this post has restored my belief in the sanity of Spurs' fans to some extent. Stop lurking, start posting!
 
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