Ratings v WBA

Discussion in 'Match Ratings Archive' started by Strikeb4ck, Sep 21, 2014.

MOTM?

  1. Lloris

    28.7%
  2. Dier

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  3. Kaboul

    1.9%
  4. Chiriches

    1.9%
  5. Rose

    22.3%
  6. Capoue

    15.3%
  7. Dembele

    2.5%
  8. Lamela

    14.6%
  9. Eriksen

    4.5%
  10. Chadli

    0.6%
  11. Adebayor

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  12. Lennon

    2.5%
  13. Paulinho

    2.5%
  14. Soldado

    2.5%
  1. C-oops

    C-oops Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    3,483
    Ratings Received:
    +1,183 / 55 / -22
    No point in ratings as to a man we were fucking terrible. Lloris was ok and Capoue made a few great tackles. Soldado tried more ( although nothing came off) and made more runs within 5 mins of coming on than Adebayor did during the whole match. The whole performance was abject. I was annoyed at how we were holding on to the ball for too long, not passing it quickly and forward. Then you look ahead of the ball and Adebayor is just standing there. Eriksen is just standing there. Chadli just standing there. lamela was showing for the ball but he was being marked tightly. So what is the man on the ball supposed to do if there is no movement ahead of him and no pass on. He passes it back or sideways and in doing so takes all the momentum and pace a out of the game, not that there was any to start with. Just terrible from our front 4. No effort at all to try and move the defence, run into channels, run beyond the striker. So after the complete lack of effort you'd think you could at least rely on decent ball control and passing. nope. Lamela ran out of ideas after 5 minutes and constantly gave the ball away. Eriksen was anonymous as was Chadli. Rose made some good runs but there was noone (sometimes not even Adebayor) in the box to cross it to. Chiriches looks like a competition winner and how can you have a captain leading by example when said captain is in the worst form of his career. When they scored their goal I'd assumed the whistle had gone due to the lack of marking. Just unbelievably bad all round. ]

    Stamboulli has to come in next to Capoue. dembele didnt do much again today and was back to taking all the momentum out of the attacks. Stamboulli's energy if nothing else will help. having seen him against Belgrade I think that fazio wouldn't have let their goal happen. He is too good in the air and we need that. Don't know what has happened with vertonghan to be not included ( fitness? attitude?) but he needs to be playing. Adebayor needs to be dropped for a couple of games and let Soldado have a run in the side. He showed more willingness to makes runs off the ball and get on the end of things than Adebayor today who was just terrible. He did nothing. Not sure that he even won a header.

    Oh. Almost forgot about Paulinho... Jesus Christ almighty.

    And Finally... what the hell happened to our high tempo, high pressing game? has Poch stopped bothering with it? Are our players too stupid and lazy to implement it? Did the players sack it off due to their general lazyness ?
     
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2014
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  2. Mr Pink

    Mr Pink SC Supporter

    Messages:
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    Yeah I agree with pretty much all of this.

    We have a serious problem with Adebayor, in that we seem to be at his mercy in terms of when he decides to be up for any certain game.

    He's had a poor start to the season and yesterday was pretty shocking. He just doesn't play with any sort of appetite or urgency, he was second to everything.

    The other point is, which you touched on, is his ambling about and not willing to press from the front. A vital feature of Poch's system is that the forward players initiate the high press.

    It seems like a complete paradox with Adebayor. To me he expects to play now again and its showing. I will be disappointed if he starts against Arsenal.

    Pochettino has to start picking a side that can reflect and implement his style best. Adebayor is the logical choice but if he's just ambling about he's not worth his place in the team, simple.

    Again I'm in total bewilderment as to why Kaboul and Vlad played together. I winced when I saw the team news. I still find it odd that Kaboul was given the captaincy when you would hope that Vertonghen and Fazio would of been first choice soon enough. But one semi liability paired with another complete liability (Vlad) is just inviting trouble - and it inevitably did. I sincerely hope Pochettino has learned from this, it was obvious to me that it was a disaster waiting to happen and it concerns me a bit that Pochettino played them. Anyway lets hope that's the last time we see them together in a meaningful game.

    Vlad is just not a good enough defender for me. Technically good on the ball and can read the game well at times is not enough to compensate for his piss poor decision making, unnecessary risk taking and lack of concentration. FFS he's a defender.

    The movement and pace of our passing just isn't good enough. A combination of a lot things I guess. Its very early days under Pochettino but he'll have learned quite a bit over the last week, even couple of weeks, but he made mistakes yesterday that exacerbated our performance. Our defensive fragility gave West Brom confidence and allowed them to grow more and more into the game.

    All that said he's got to start picking sides that can reflect more what he's trying to do. He might not have too many options for some positions that are handicapping him a bit, but we're surely capable of at least attempting to play his way a bit better than what we're seeing even though its early days and all that.

    We're most definitely filed under the early stages of a work in progress at the moment but that's no excuse for us having a poor mentality on match days. Fans would be more forgiving if they could see a real desire in our play even if it was lacking cohesion, structure and fluidity. Those things will hopefully come but in the mean time I don't want to see Adebayor ambling about as if it was just a wee fun kick about in the sun.
     
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  3. EastLondonYid

    EastLondonYid Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    5,121
    Ratings Received:
    +5,404 / 192 / -89
    Poch made Kaboul captain and Ade vice capt ?? he should have also made Chirches vice capt so as to complete the set....

    I fucking despair.
     
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  4. Japhet

    Japhet Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    5,453
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    +9,219 / 268 / -55
    The only positive I can find from that performance is that Poch will have seen at close quarters just how complacent and lethargic we can be. Some of the selection I can understand. Demele looked a totally different player Sunderland but reverted to type. However, Kaboul and Chiriches? No sense in that at all. For me, Naughton starts at RB and Dier gets go at CB. I'd be tempted to strip Adebayor of the vice Captaincy after that! He's just picked up upwards of 100k or his 'week's work'. Poch needs to wield the big stick this week.
     
  5. Gilzeanking

    Gilzeanking Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    4,507
    Ratings Received:
    +1,973 / 111 / -76
    Nothing to add to the above . We've reached a critical point . Are the players going to work for Poch or not ?. This is the question now . Will his rage motivate them , or move them towards mutiny ?
    AVB moved Ade to mutiny , can Poch succeed with Ade where AVB failed ? I wonder.

    This is why Van Gaal had an appeal .His gravitas getting our notoriously inert players to run around (maybe). The match was a rerun of numerous Spurs performances under an array of different managers . I sincerely hope Poch has something in his locker that will get the players moving .
     
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  6. Spurs_Bear

    Spurs_Bear Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    13,904
    Ratings Received:
    +12,228 / 444 / -202
    Dan Ashcroft troll warning...
     
  7. Spurs_Bear

    Spurs_Bear Well-Known Member

    Messages:
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    Agree pretty much with @Bus-Conductor and his summary, although wouldn't even be as kind to Capoue as he was, he was also garbage, and as the lesser of two evils I would have taken him off instead of Dembele.

    The only positive I can bring from the game is that Poch was genuinely angry with the players, there wasn't any bullshit, I hope...HOPE, this means we will at least see some sort of reaction from all concerned, but at least he wasn't hiding behind any long winded jargon to excuse our poor performance. For what it's worth, I've never been a big fan of changing 11 players for games, especially when the regime is so new. The players can't be tired, it's not like they've run themselves into the ground recently. I want a strong team against Forest, get a win then pick another strong team for the Emirates.

    And wear a suit Poch, start looking the business, there's a good lad.
     
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  8. Kalim

    Kalim Pakispur

    Messages:
    1,235
    Ratings Received:
    +928 / 39 / -13
    Did you by any chance see Davies against Parizan Belgrade?
     
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  9. sloth

    sloth Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    8,990
    Ratings Received:
    +7,036 / 170 / -64
    I switched off half-way through the first half, five minutes later I'd switched it on again. Then off at half-time and not back on until about 55 minutes, and then off for the final time at 65 minutes. As viewing goes that was pretty much unbearable.

    I think Poch was right in his post-match interview, and although I don't expect him to admit it publicly, I think he should be pretty angry with himself too. Basically he picked a shit team.

    His first and biggest mistake was picking Chiriches, I don't know what the guy's doing on the training field, but it must be pretty exceptional to overcome the shit he serves up virtually every time he plays. The guy is a rubbish defender, particularly unsuited to the PL. He's slow, he's weak, and he thinks he's a hundred times better on the ball than he actually is. In fact Chiriches by himself brings into question Baldini's position at the club as far as I'm concerned.

    His second error was the centre-midfield pairing. Dembele's ability to beat his man has a siren like allure to coaches, but if it's not then allied to playing the right ball then the skill is a useless one. The commentator kept saying we lacked pace, but i think it's tempo, and tempo comes from pass and move, and we don't have any pass and move exponents in the side, the closest might be Bentaleb, or we'll have to wait and see on Stamboulli.

    There is a tactical issue too, but I'm not sure if this is an error or just something that will take time to work out on the training field, whichever it is atm we're too susceptible to the simplest of balls over the top, partly this is to do with FBs playing kamikaze at times, not only moving forward, but moving central, leaving absolutely no cover for when we lose the ball, partly it's an issue with Chiriches, but as i say, maybe it's also an issue with players not having learned how to play they way he wants them too.

    The fourth thing i want to talk about is the make-up of the side and in particular Baldini and Levy's role in it. Levy wants the DoF and personally I agree with him, but as far as I'm concerned he keeps choosing pups for the role. Commoli was all talk and no trousers, his Billy Beane methods weren't backed by any footballing insight. Baldini doesn't seem to have grasped that we play a different game in this country to what they have in France, or Italy, or Romania. In those countries the game's played at walking pace, players dwell on the ball and take their time to pick the pass, and it's frankly slow and boring. It seems with some of our recruits Baldini's picked players who'd do well in those leagues, but who may be unsuited to our one, even with the likes of Chadli, who comes from a quick league, within that league he's a languorous type of player. Lamela thinks he's better than he is, and has got to learn that rolling your foot over the ball and then tripping over it is shit football, and that trying to play the final glorious ball all the time is not the answer, but quick progressive, but simple passing then move is. I hope the return of Broomfield might address some of these issues.

    All of that said, it is far too early to judge the effect Poch can have on this team - even if I do worry when our play has gone backwards since pre-season, with the early signs of the front four being willing and able to press, having seemingly melted away into PL disinterest - and we'll see if he can find a way to get us passing and moving quickly, and with purpose.
     
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  10. thinktank

    thinktank Hmmm...

    Messages:
    41,947
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    +59,693 / 1,784 / -696
    I still wanna see this....

    Capoue Mason

    Lamela Eriksen Ceballos

    Soldado

    It's all about chemistry. Also, Mason and Ceballos actually seem to get what poch is trying to achieve.
     
  11. Spurs_Bear

    Spurs_Bear Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    13,904
    Ratings Received:
    +12,228 / 444 / -202
    The only issue I have with that is that neither Mason or Ceballos have excelled in any high or even mediocre level of football, are you judging Mason on his performance against the MLS reserve sides we played in pre-season? I'm all for giving youngsters a go and would be inclined to stick a kid in at right back through genuinely not being able to do worse than Dier or Naughton, but the changes you propose just seem like changes for the sake of boredom?
     
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2014
  12. Bulletspur

    Bulletspur The Reasonable Advocate

    Messages:
    6,141
    Ratings Received:
    +7,581 / 535 / -162
    I had the benefit of watching the game for the first time after both knowing the final score and then reading the first few of the comments on this thread. Based on that I think I am able to give a more objective opinion not based on emotions or anger.

    Lamela my MOM. Because, despite most things he tried was not coming off for him, out of all our players I thought he was the only one who was both pressing, tried to get the ball back when he lost it (numerous times unfortunately), making himself available for everyone and kept pressing (yes I repeated myself here). All this even though being heavily marked. He was really trying to make things happen but other but not the same effort by others I am afraid.

    Credits also to Lloris Capoue Dembele and Rose

    Much discredits to Adebayor and Chiriches (I was one of his biggest fan and now realising that he is not that good). Neither of these two should have been on the bench never mind starting based on their performances today.

    The rest I know can and will do better, but as a team today, they were all on different wave lengths.

    Still very optimistic as for me it was just a bad day at the office. COYS
     
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  13. Bulletspur

    Bulletspur The Reasonable Advocate

    Messages:
    6,141
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    +7,581 / 535 / -162
    You etiher did not watch the game or do not know the meaning of anonymous. Even when playing poorly he was very visible and involved in most aspects of our play
     
  14. HappySpur

    HappySpur You Can't Unfry Things Jerri

    Messages:
    7,666
    Ratings Received:
    +21,287 / 191 / -127
    All I know is that I am rating Adebayor as .51 just to see how serious OP is. *maniacal laugh*
     
  15. Bulletspur

    Bulletspur The Reasonable Advocate

    Messages:
    6,141
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    +7,581 / 535 / -162
    Do you always look for the negatives in life? Well written but I think you could have balanced it a bit because irrespective of the result and performance, I still saw a lot of positives. But then I suppose I am like @Mr Pink, an optimist in nature! (y)
     
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  16. mpickard2087

    mpickard2087 Fantastic Member

    Messages:
    18,548
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    +20,821 / 536 / -229
    Positives, yesterday? :LOL:

    I do tend to look at where we can improve and highlight deficiencies, no matter how our season is going. For me, its the only way to push forward + actually win something, and it also provides additional discussion points. I don't think anything I put is unfair, there is no point in brushing it under the carpet and ignoring it.
     
  17. stemark44

    stemark44 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
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    +1,988 / 348 / -140
    This........I have said it before,this team was created with the Italian League in mind and the guy whose fingerprints are all over this creation is Baldini.
    Now he may well be a good man at negotiating a transfer deal but at identifying talent for this league,he is shocking.
    This has to stop immediately.
     
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  18. InOffMeLeftShin

    InOffMeLeftShin Night watchman Admin

    Messages:
    13,776
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    +3,121 / 26 / -11
    Sorry even with the set of players we have there are no excuses for the way we played. Do you really think that the players we have aren't capable of moving the ball on in less than 4 seconds? Do you think that none of them are capable of moving after making pass (because way too many times to count the player passing then just stood around). Do you think they aren't capable of any type of movement to stretch a defence in any kind of way?

    They are capable of way better than they played at the weekend and there is no reason that with decent coaching and tactical nouse that they can actually perform to a really high level.
     
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  19. Bulletspur

    Bulletspur The Reasonable Advocate

    Messages:
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    +7,581 / 535 / -162
    Seek and ye shall find! We will now go forward knowing that Kaboul and Chiriches have proven that they should not be 1st choice. Adebayor should be benched. We have a new signing in Danny Rose (Dont know where the old one is gone). We cannot play any worse. Complacency will not be an issue. We still have Stambiouli, Fazio, Walker, Verts, Bentaleb to come. levy has not fired Poch yet and the lists goes on..!
     
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  20. theShiznit

    theShiznit Well-Known Member

    Messages:
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    +10,388 / 212 / -49
    We should have got rid of Adebayor when we had the chance.

    The only possible reason i can see from him not being dropped or subbed early is that Poch doesn't want to upset the precious one.

    We all know what an unloved Ade can do, become a divisive character split the dressing room, hasten the manager's end.

    The whole Vice-captain thing says to me the management think "we need to treat him like a special delicate flower"

    Well he's not worthy of a spot on the bench at the moment let alone the honour of the Vice-captaincy (inspirational yestarday in his first game as Vice-captain)

    Maybe Poch's assistant can ask him to wear a hat to a team meeting so that Poch can tell him to remove it (we all know that's one way of getting him out of the team...)
     
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