Ratings vs Arsenal

MOM

  • Lloris

    Votes: 85 16.6%
  • Rose

    Votes: 11 2.1%
  • Verts

    Votes: 3 0.6%
  • Kaboul

    Votes: 385 75.2%
  • Naughton

    Votes: 1 0.2%
  • Capoue

    Votes: 6 1.2%
  • Mason

    Votes: 11 2.1%
  • Lamela

    Votes: 1 0.2%
  • Eriksen

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Chadli

    Votes: 5 1.0%
  • Adebayor

    Votes: 2 0.4%
  • Lennon

    Votes: 1 0.2%
  • Bentaleb

    Votes: 1 0.2%
  • Dier

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    512

Mr Pink

SC Supporter
Joined
Aug 25, 2010
Messages
44,524
You keep saying the intention was correct, when it wasn't. It would only have been correct if some circumstances had contrived for a shot to be hit in that corner and him being in place when that happened. Neither of which happened or were very likely.

We are splitting hairs about the goal that cost us 2 points, that according to you our excellent game plan and superior chances had earned.

I hope he learns, because I think his instincts were wrong. And I don't think he's alone either, I think several times this season or defenders, particularly Dier and Kaboul have made some poor instinctive decisions under pressure that have cost us.
It was. Again how do you know were Welbeck would of placed his shot. Everybody expected Welbeck to connect with the ball, you can't fault him for that.

I am actually amazed by your stubbornness, its reaching new heights.

You can't fault a player for reacting like that, it looked an absolute cert that Welbeck was going to get a shot off. He's took a chance at getting back to cover that free side of the goal. Its a split second decision. If Welbeck connects like he should do he scores or just maybe Rose gets a mad deflection/block on it which saves a goal.

What is so hard to understand about that.
 

Spurs_Bear

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 7, 2009
Messages
14,146
It was. Again how do you know were Welbeck would of placed his shot. Everybody expected Welbeck to connect with the ball, you can't fault him for that.

I am actually amazed by your stubbornness, its reaching new heights.

You can't fault a player for reacting like that, it looked an absolute cert that Welbeck was going to get a shot off. He's took a chance at getting back to cover that free side of the goal. Its a split second decision. If Welbeck connects like he should do he scores or just maybe Rose gets a mad deflection/block on it which saves a goal.

What is so hard to understand about that.
I'm convinced he's now on the windup.
 

Mr Pink

SC Supporter
Joined
Aug 25, 2010
Messages
44,524
Doesn't sound like Pochettino was disappointed by the effort and performance to me:

Tottenham had a gameplan, which was to sit deep, stay compact and venture forward on the counter. And they stuck to it. Mauricio Pochettino, who started with Chadli pressed high up alongside Emmanuel Adebayor, made no apologies for the strategy and he praised his players for the hardiness of their mentality. Last season, he pointed out, Tottenham had lost in these sort of games. “It is a good point,” Pochettino said. “We have competed with a big team like Arsenal.”

http://www.theguardian.com/football...tottenham-hotspur-premier-league-match-report
 

mpickard2087

Fantastic Member
Joined
Jun 13, 2008
Messages
19,219
How times change though. Only a few months ago Rose was getting awful abuse about a lack of urgency, now we are critiquing him for showing too much and rushing back on the goal line! :LOL:
 

sloth

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 7, 2005
Messages
8,993
Doesn't sound like Pochettino was disappointed by the effort and performance to me:

Tottenham had a gameplan, which was to sit deep, stay compact and venture forward on the counter. And they stuck to it. Mauricio Pochettino, who started with Chadli pressed high up alongside Emmanuel Adebayor, made no apologies for the strategy and he praised his players for the hardiness of their mentality. Last season, he pointed out, Tottenham had lost in these sort of games. “It is a good point,” Pochettino said. “We have competed with a big team like Arsenal.”

http://www.theguardian.com/football...tottenham-hotspur-premier-league-match-report
Not sure that says a lot. We have the journalist's opinion about the tactics supported by a stock answer from Poch about the result.
 
Joined
Oct 19, 2004
Messages
39,463
Doesn't sound like Pochettino was disappointed by the effort and performance to me:

Tottenham had a gameplan, which was to sit deep, stay compact and venture forward on the counter. And they stuck to it. Mauricio Pochettino, who started with Chadli pressed high up alongside Emmanuel Adebayor, made no apologies for the strategy and he praised his players for the hardiness of their mentality. Last season, he pointed out, Tottenham had lost in these sort of games. “It is a good point,” Pochettino said. “We have competed with a big team like Arsenal.”

http://www.theguardian.com/football...tottenham-hotspur-premier-league-match-report

For someone who, in this thread, accused me of not letting things go this is pretty pathetic.
 
Joined
Oct 19, 2004
Messages
39,463
As far as the Rose thing goes, I simply don't agree that he did the right thing. He was three yards from the line when Welbeck is swinging, therefore he couldn't have blocked anything on the line, therefore it's impossible to say he did the right the right thing on this occasion. And the ball deflects to Welbeck so how did he know it wasn't going to end up with the man he was told to mark by Vertonghen a split second prior ? That is my opinion of this incident.

I accept other opinions are available. I just don't share them on this. He was probably my man of the match so I'd forgive him anyway.


Of far more concern to me, than a split second mistake/otherwise of Rose, was the attitude and actions of most of our front row players, and the general lack of cohesion to our pressing and closing down all round the pitch.

Early days though blah blah blah.
 
Last edited:

Spurs_Bear

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 7, 2009
Messages
14,146
@sloth

So not much to go on, but at least it had quotes in it, and was by a journo from a (semi) respected source, unlike this beauty from Beecie.

So not by design or indeed, bang on:

Importantly, Pochettino had spent much of the first half audibly remonstrating with Eriksen, encouraging him to harry and hassle Mikel Arteta in possession of the ball. The Dane had been rebuked for failing to close down the Spaniard on every occasion, with Emmanuel Adebayor also suitably reproached. The effectiveness of Pochettino's high-press style, utilised to such great effect at Southampton, depends on an all-for-one mentality within the squad - there is little room for passengers.
 
Joined
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Messages
39,463
@sloth

So not much to go on, but at least it had quotes in it, and was by a journo from a (semi) respected source, unlike this beauty from Beecie.

Doesn't sound like he was over the moon to me (with post match quotes) or are you saying the 365 journo made this up ?:

"We need to improve but we need time. Arsene Wenger has been in charge 18 years. Me, just three months," was the post-match plea for patience from Pochettino
 

Spurs_Bear

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 7, 2009
Messages
14,146
Doesn't sound like he was over the moon to me (with post match quotes) or are you saying the 365 journo made this up ?:

"We need to improve but we need time. Arsene Wenger has been in charge 18 years. Me, just three months," was the post-match plea for patience from Pochettino
Who said he was over the moon? Do you not think 'plea for patience' is a bit disingenuous there?
 

Spurs_Bear

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 7, 2009
Messages
14,146
Argghh phone..


In what way ? (Disingenuous)
As in I don't think it's a plea for patience at all, if I remember that was a quote from his post match interview, said in a light hearted way in reference to Wenger being there for years and him not. It wasn't a 'I need a vote of confidence from the board and fans' type plea.
 

Coyboy

The Double of 1961 is still The Double
Joined
Dec 3, 2004
Messages
14,359
As in I don't think it's a plea for patience at all, if I remember that was a quote from his post match interview, said in a light hearted way in reference to Wenger being there for years and him not. It wasn't a 'I need a vote of confidence from the board and fans' type plea.
Wrong. It was a give me an 8 year contract extension demand.
 
Joined
Oct 19, 2004
Messages
39,463
As in I don't think it's a plea for patience at all, if I remember that was a quote from his post match interview, said in a light hearted way in reference to Wenger being there for years and him not. It wasn't a 'I need a vote of confidence from the board and fans' type plea.
I didn't think it was intended to be.

It was a "this wasn't a great performance but give it time" type statement.
 
Joined
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Messages
39,463
@sloth

So not much to go on, but at least it had quotes in it, and was by a journo from a (semi) respected source, unlike this beauty from Beecie.

So presumably, you are agreeing with MrP and BG that you think Pochettino had instructed Adebayor, Chadli, Eriksen et al not to close down or press. You think that journalist who saw Pochettino imploring Eriksen to harass Aeteta is making that up and you didn't see what couple of us saw like Chadli going to press, looking round and realising others weren't following suit, and Capoue beckoning people to move further up etc ?

You think the Guardians "it was a good point" soundbite is a more indicative barometer of the actual event and Pochettino's over arching take on it all ?
 

Spurs_Bear

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 7, 2009
Messages
14,146
So presumably, you are agreeing with MrP and BG that you think Pochettino had instructed Adebayor, Chadli, Eriksen et al not to close down or press. You think that journalist who saw Pochettino imploring Eriksen to harass Aeteta is making that up and you didn't see what couple of us saw like Chadli going to press, looking round and realising others weren't following suit, and Capoue beckoning people to move further up etc ?

You think the Guardians "it was a good point" soundbite is a more indicative barometer of the actual event ?
I think our press was more of a 'set' to come into play in our own half, you could see an organisation of sorts, and in my view what you saw of Adebayor, Chadli etc 'looking round' was because they weren't sure if they should be retreating (something you never do) or breaking from the setup in our own half and go for the closedown themselves. It's where I think you have the 'press at all costs' a bit wrong, I think our plan was to preserve our energy for the counter attack (which we got into some very good positions with some woeful application to finish). If we would have gone hell for leather, with what you call Dortmund style (something I am not sure they will replicate at the Emirates) I could see us being burnt out of our arses by 60 mins. It's a counter attacking tactic utilised by a lot of managers, very akin to what we have seen from Mourinho in certain games. It's risky, I give you that, but I agree with @mpickard2087 in his pre-game assessment that he wanted us to go there and be difficult to beat. It's not how I particularly want us to play at home, but I don't really have much problem with it away. I could see it being a very successful approach to games against weaker sides, and once we stop falling over our own feet when trying to carry the ball at pace. We got into some exceptional positions as others have mentioned, but our decision making wasn't quite there. One from Chadli sticks in my mind first half when Adebayor and Lamela made perfect runs but Chadli chose the wrong one. Shit happens I guess.

It was a plan that we carried out 'pretty' well, Lloris made one world class save, and they scored their goal through a pinball effect madness, another day that doesn't happen and we walk away winners. In terms of who created the better opportunities then it was us hands down, our application to those situations let us down, not the approach to the game as a whole.

I have no idea where the journos sit at the Emirates but I find it quite hard to believe you have one from a renowned 'average joe' source in football365 that all of a sudden takes his seat on the Spurs bench. At least the soundbite is exactly that.

Personally, I think some of these conversations are pretty fruitless, as you will never move from the factoid that possession is king philosophy, you can deny it all you want but it is true Beece. Possession and passes made in the opposition half are very important to you, which is fine, but it's not always the best way to play the game, and as has also been mentioned, we take a lot more heart from the performance this year than last, where despite going a goal down in 20 odd minutes, we never even looked like threatening until right at the end of the 90.

It's the first time we have approached a game like that this season, against Liverpool we were awful, but it looked as though we were still trying to get at their players higher up the pitch and squeeze the area the game was played in, didn't work obviously. This game looked like a totally different approach, and one I'm quite happy with.
 
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