Ratings vs Arsenal

MOM

  • Lloris

    Votes: 85 16.6%
  • Rose

    Votes: 11 2.1%
  • Verts

    Votes: 3 0.6%
  • Kaboul

    Votes: 385 75.2%
  • Naughton

    Votes: 1 0.2%
  • Capoue

    Votes: 6 1.2%
  • Mason

    Votes: 11 2.1%
  • Lamela

    Votes: 1 0.2%
  • Eriksen

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Chadli

    Votes: 5 1.0%
  • Adebayor

    Votes: 2 0.4%
  • Lennon

    Votes: 1 0.2%
  • Bentaleb

    Votes: 1 0.2%
  • Dier

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    512

sloth

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Mar 7, 2005
Messages
8,993
Basically, the gist of what BC is saying is that whatever the plan, the front four as a unit (with Adebayor and to a lesser extent Eriksen particularly culpable) didn't enact the defensive side of it very well. The rest of the team were much better, but the overall performance would have been greatly improved had the likes of ade given a shit, and actually mustered more than an amble when they had the ball and he was the nearest man, and if he wasn't forever jogging into an area where he couldn't do much good, seemingly to ensure he wouldn't have to be in the area he would have done some good, I suspect because that would have involved more graft than he was prepared to offer.

On a side-note, my personal suspicion with Ade is that he doesn't agree with the way Poch has asked him to play and so he's doing his selfish and cowardly work to rule type protest.
 

Lufti

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Joined
Jan 3, 2013
Messages
7,991
Basically, the gist of what BC is saying is that whatever the plan, the front four as a unit (with Adebayor and to a lesser extent Eriksen particularly culpable) didn't enact the defensive side of it very well. The rest of the team were much better, but the overall performance would have been greatly improved had the likes of ade given a shit, and actually mustered more than an amble when they had the ball and he was the nearest man, and if he wasn't forever jogging into an area where he couldn't do much good, seemingly to ensure he wouldn't have to be in the area he would have done some good, I suspect because that would have involved more graft than he was prepared to offer.

On a side-note, my personal suspicion with Ade is that he doesn't agree with the way Poch has asked him to play and so he's doing his selfish and cowardly work to rule type protest.
There's merit in both sides of the argument, and the correct answer is probably found somewhere in between BC/JH's argument and the others. But don't let that stop this party from rollin' on :sneaky:
 

Spurs_Bear

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Jan 7, 2009
Messages
14,139
Basically, the gist of what BC is saying is that whatever the plan, the front four as a unit (with Adebayor and to a lesser extent Eriksen particularly culpable) didn't enact the defensive side of it very well. The rest of the team were much better, but the overall performance would have been greatly improved had the likes of ade given a shit, and actually mustered more than an amble when they had the ball and he was the nearest man, and if he wasn't forever jogging into an area where he couldn't do much good, seemingly to ensure he wouldn't have to be in the area he would have done some good, I suspect because that would have involved more graft than he was prepared to offer.

On a side-note, my personal suspicion with Ade is that he doesn't agree with the way Poch has asked him to play and so he's doing his selfish and cowardly work to rule type protest.
Could the idea have been though, that Adebayor/Chadli/Eriksen were the 'coil' for the counter attack, hence were told to not run around like headless chickens and tire themselves out, so that they are at as near to peak condition for when we win the ball 'in the defensive line' and make a beeline for the oppositions goal. It's not that unfathomable, it's how Madrid destroyed Bayern Munich last year, Bale and Ronaldo barely broke into a sweat until the ball had been won and the 'coil' was unleashed.

It's no wonder why AVB/BC are so suited to each other, both are as stubborn and rigid as each other, and despite words from Poch's mouth about how we set up, despite him being in the massive minority (whichever way you look at it, it's the minority) and going against the grain, he is still refusing to accept that the plan was a successful plan, or was implemented how the coach wanted it to be.
 

ItsBoris

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Joined
Jan 18, 2011
Messages
5,690
Could the idea have been though, that Adebayor/Chadli/Eriksen were the 'coil' for the counter attack, hence were told to not run around like headless chickens and tire themselves out, so that they are at as near to peak condition for when we win the ball 'in the defensive line' and make a beeline for the oppositions goal. It's not that unfathomable, it's how Madrid destroyed Bayern Munich last year, Bale and Ronaldo barely broke into a sweat until the ball had been won and the 'coil' was unleashed.

It's no wonder why AVB/BC are so suited to each other, both are as stubborn and rigid as each other, and despite words from Poch's mouth about how we set up, despite him being in the massive minority (whichever way you look at it, it's the minority) and going against the grain, he is still refusing to accept that the plan was a successful plan, or was implemented how the coach wanted it to be.
Seems likely imo, but this is all speculative unless Poch actually says that was the plan. He said the plan was to defend and counter attack if I remember right, but there are multiple ways to do that - involving either aggressive pressing from the front or having the front players sit off a bit, letting the defenders have time on the ball.

Anyway, I'm just happy that we have a manager now that actually seems to have a brain and can make a plan to not get hammered against one of our rivals.
 

Spurs_Bear

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Joined
Jan 7, 2009
Messages
14,139
Seems likely imo, but this is all speculative unless Poch actually says that was the plan. He said the plan was to defend and counter attack if I remember right, but there are multiple ways to do that - involving either aggressive pressing from the front or having the front players sit off a bit, letting the defenders have time on the ball.

Anyway, I'm just happy that we have a manager now that actually seems to have a brain and can make a plan to not get hammered against one of our rivals.
Apparently even if he says its the plan we're still not supposed to believe him.
 

ItsBoris

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Joined
Jan 18, 2011
Messages
5,690
Apparently even if he says its the plan we're still not supposed to believe him.
He didn't elaborate on the specific tactics involved, that's why it's speculative. Defending deep and being compact can mean many things more specifically, that doesn't allow us to evaluate whether the plan was implemented effectively.

FWIW, I did say I agree with your interpretation. Just pointing out that it is an interpretation.
 

Blake Griffin

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Joined
Oct 3, 2011
Messages
11,801
Could the idea have been though, that Adebayor/Chadli/Eriksen were the 'coil' for the counter attack, hence were told to not run around like headless chickens and tire themselves out, so that they are at as near to peak condition for when we win the ball 'in the defensive line' and make a beeline for the oppositions goal. It's not that unfathomable, it's how Madrid destroyed Bayern Munich last year, Bale and Ronaldo barely broke into a sweat until the ball had been won and the 'coil' was unleashed.

It's no wonder why AVB/BC are so suited to each other, both are as stubborn and rigid as each other, and despite words from Poch's mouth about how we set up, despite him being in the massive minority (whichever way you look at it, it's the minority) and going against the grain, he is still refusing to accept that the plan was a successful plan, or was implemented how the coach wanted it to be.
indeed. sky and motd :giggle: both highlighted multiple examples of our front four(or front three and ade if you prefer) sprinting forward whenever we won the ball deep, if they'd spent most of the game holtby'ing it then not only would we have lost our shape but they'd have been in no condition to get forward when we did win the ball. i really don't know what the issue here is. pressing and possession are not the only ways to approach a game, it was obvious to any that the approach we took was the one most likely to yield a result. this is all cloak and dagger with bc though, arguing over minute details when really the problem he has is arsenal 69%-31% spurs, it's driven him to insanity.
 

Spurs_Bear

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Joined
Jan 7, 2009
Messages
14,139
He didn't elaborate on the specific tactics involved, that's why it's speculative. Defending deep and being compact can mean many things more specifically, that doesn't allow us to evaluate whether the plan was implemented effectively.

FWIW, I did say I agree with your interpretation. Just pointing out that it is an interpretation.
Yeah I wasn't digging you out, just being a ****.
 
Joined
Oct 19, 2004
Messages
39,142
Could the idea have been though, that Adebayor/Chadli/Eriksen were the 'coil' for the counter attack, hence were told to not run around like headless chickens and tire themselves out, so that they are at as near to peak condition for when we win the ball 'in the defensive line' and make a beeline for the oppositions goal. It's not that unfathomable, it's how Madrid destroyed Bayern Munich last year, Bale and Ronaldo barely broke into a sweat until the ball had been won and the 'coil' was unleashed.

It's no wonder why AVB/BC are so suited to each other, both are as stubborn and rigid as each other, and despite words from Poch's mouth about how we set up, despite him being in the massive minority (whichever way you look at it, it's the minority) and going against the grain, he is still refusing to accept that the plan was a successful plan, or was implemented how the coach wanted it to be.

Jesus, you're right, I've lost the plot, for a surreal second I thought you were comparing our performance Saturday with RM's dismantling of Bayern.

Serious question. Do you think the journo was lying/making it up when he said Pochettino was continually getting at Eriksen to press Arteta ?

Do you think Lamela was disobeying the orders to "conserve energy" by running around like busy **** ?
 

Coyboy

The Double of 1961 is still The Double
Joined
Dec 3, 2004
Messages
14,310
Seems likely imo, but this is all speculative unless Poch actually says that was the plan. He said the plan was to defend and counter attack if I remember right, but there are multiple ways to do that - involving either aggressive pressing from the front or having the front players sit off a bit, letting the defenders have time on the ball.

Anyway, I'm just happy that we have a manager now that actually seems to have a brain and can make a plan to not get hammered against one of our rivals.
Sherwood managed us okay last season at the Lane. We dominated the whole game and lost to a first minute wonder goal. But we aren’t allowed to mention those sorts of games lest it appears as if we are giving Sherwood any sort of faint praise. Even chiding Sherwood is frowned upon.
 
Joined
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indeed. sky and motd :giggle: both highlighted multiple examples of our front four(or front three and ade if you prefer) sprinting forward whenever we won the ball deep, if they'd spent most of the game holtby'ing it then not only would we have lost our shape but they'd have been in no condition to get forward when we did win the ball. i really don't know what the issue here is. pressing and possession are not the only ways to approach a game, it was obvious to any that the approach we took was the one most likely to yield a result. this is all cloak and dagger with bc though, arguing over minute details when really the problem he has is arsenal 69%-31% spurs, it's driven him to insanity.

So was Lamela going against the plan then ?
 

Blake Griffin

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Joined
Oct 3, 2011
Messages
11,801
Jesus, you're right, I've lost the plot, for a surreal second I thought you were comparing our performance Saturday with RM's dismantling of Bayern.

Serious question. Do you think the journo was lying/making it up when he said Pochettino was continually getting at Eriksen to press Arteta ?

Do you think Lamela was disobeying the orders to "conserve energy" by running around like busy **** ?
why would we have instructed our left midfielder to press their deepest central midfielder? yes christian you vacate your position, danny can cope with ox and chambers no problem (y)
 

Spurs_Bear

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Jan 7, 2009
Messages
14,139
Jesus, you're right, I've lost the plot, for a surreal second I thought you were comparing our performance Saturday with RM's dismantling of Bayern.

Serious question. Do you think the journo was lying/making it up when he said Pochettino was continually getting at Eriksen to press Arteta ?

Do you think Lamela was disobeying the orders to "conserve energy" by running around like busy **** ?
I have no idea, as I mentioned before I don't know where the journos sit at the Emirates.

Serious question, do you believe a Football365 journo with no quotes attached to his paragraph about that, or our coach? And what makes you want to believe the Football365 journo, just so you don't have to turn round and go "you know what lads, I'll give you this one, you might be right."

Lamela wasn't Lamela like he was against QPR, and of course you're exaggerating it to make the point.

I'll ask you this about Adebayor though, there was a break on in the first half with Mason (who fucked it up), when Adebayor was absolutely busting a bollock to get an inch on his man, Mason fucked it by taking it too long, and Adebayor went ballistic at him. Could it be because that was the exact plan in the first place?
 

ItsBoris

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Messages
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Sherwood managed us okay last season at the Lane. We dominated the whole game and lost to a first minute wonder goal. But we aren’t allowed to mention those sorts of games lest it appears as if we are giving Sherwood any sort of faint praise. Even chiding Sherwood is frowned upon.
I'll say it quietly but I actually preferred Sherwood over AVB and Redknapp. I enjoyed watching us play in most of our games in the 2nd half of last season, but I think that's partially because I wrote the season off sooner than most others did. If I've got my stats right, we scored 40 goals in Sherwood's 22 games, and 15 goals in AVB's 15 games.
 

ultimateloner

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Joined
Jan 25, 2004
Messages
3,417
I like Spurs_bear idea that Ade is displaying his disobedience to Poch by turning in a terrible performance.
I think it's consistent with what has been written of Ade.

If this was true then the solution is clear; Poch backs down or Kane/Soldado plays.

Given past exp it's better if Poch backs down.
 
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why would we have instructed our left midfielder to press their deepest central midfielder? yes christian you vacate your position, danny can cope with ox and chambers no problem (y)

Maybe at the time Eriksen was the closest player to Arteta ? Maybe because Chadli also spent time on the left and Eriksen spent time central (12 of Chadli's 20 attempted passes came from the left side of the pitch - 14 of Eriksen's 22 from central third).
 

XSuicideBunnyX

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I'll say it quietly but I actually preferred Sherwood over AVB and Redknapp. I enjoyed watching us play in most of our games in the 2nd half of last season, but I think that's partially because I wrote the season off sooner than most others did. If I've got my stats right, we scored 40 goals in Sherwood's 22 games, and 15 goals in AVB's 15 games.
If you just watched MOTD during Tim's spell with us, you might have thought he was a pretty good manager - team scored goals, won games, made good highlights, Tim gives a nice soundbite...

The problems come when you actually appreciate the whole picture - we only played well one half of each game, and occasionally not at all, and Tim came out with some crazy stupid stuff in the media. I firmly believe results were not the reason we parted company with Sherwood.

Edit: Not implying that you were almost a part-time fan, merely just stating my opinion. Your opinion has good ground behind it as well.
 

THFCSPURS19

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32,150
Guys, it seems @Bus-Conductor has admitted he was wrong before. Once, in nearly 24000 posts. It's quite funny as well.

I believed we had, no question. I admit it. I've not ever tried to deny it. But what exactly do you want me to put my hands up to ? That I was wrong when I thought we'd pissed away our chance of fourth ? I put my hands up. I was wrong. Beautifully, blissfully, orgasmically wrong. Do I think that I was completely wrong about Redknapp's tactical nouse ? No. But has some of his actions impressed me. Yes. Do I think that fate has often smiled kindly on Redknapp. Hell fucking yes. Ekotto getting injured. Rose's wonder goal per minutes played per season, Fabregas, Arshavin, VP all being non starters, Terry being a stupid fuck etc etc.

But I have also been impressed by some of Redknapps teams and in game tactics ? Yes, more so than I thought I would be and definitely more than I ever was with Jols. There have been time when the fickle hand of fate didn;t smile on Redknapp either like at Liverpool, Wolves, Stoke etc.

But one place I did put my head above the parapet confidently was in being bullish about the quality of our squad of players, and constantly maintained that this was the best squad we'd had for decades and in my opinion was better than Liverpools and ManC's.

I also stated that I believed in this squad when it was bottom of the league last year.

I would at some point when I have time like to revisit the "The Harry Effect" and discuss the merits/otherwise of Redknapp's tenure.
 

Spurs_Bear

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14,139
I like Spurs_bear idea that Ade is displaying his disobedience to Poch by turning in a terrible performance.
I think it's consistent with what has been written of Ade.

If this was true then the solution is clear; Poch backs down or Kane/Soldado plays.

Given past exp it's better if Poch backs down.
Not me son, was @sloth I think.
 
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I have no idea, as I mentioned before I don't know where the journos sit at the Emirates.

Serious question, do you believe a Football365 journo with no quotes attached to his paragraph about that, or our coach? And what makes you want to believe the Football365 journo, just so you don't have to turn round and go "you know what lads, I'll give you this one, you might be right."

Lamela wasn't Lamela like he was against QPR, and of course you're exaggerating it to make the point.

The journo and our coach aren't necessarily conflicting each other. Poch post match explains "we had a plan" that doesn't mean he was happy in game or after with how everyone was implementing that plan does it (how likely is it that a coach ever is anyway - so why would he be now. And every time the camera panned on him he was looking very vexed - I think the ref came over and spoke to him at one point). He's not likely to come out and say post match "we had a plan but Adebayor is being a **** because I won't let him play in his favourite hat and Eriksen's a bit of a fairy, apart from that it was quite good"

I'm not exagerating Lamela's contribution, he was charging around like a nutter and was lucky not to get booked before he did (he got warned prior to being booked) and continued to work hard and engage the opposition, at one point I thought he might get a red.


I'll ask you this about Adebayor though, there was a break on in the first half with Mason (who fucked it up), when Adebayor was absolutely busting a bollock to get an inch on his man, Mason fucked it by taking it too long, and Adebayor went ballistic at him. Could it be because that was the exact plan in the first place?

You, BG and Pinko keep obfuscating the simple point I am making. Could we have had a plan to be compact sit a bit deeper and counter attack ? Of course, that's what the plan was.

What I don't believe is that certain players implemented that plan well at all. I don't believe Pochettino would be happy with the contribution of Adebayor, Eriksen or Chadli in general.

I would bet Pochettino (the man who's all about the press) would have wanted much more work rate from those three, he'd have wanted them to match Lamela's ability to work hard but still have the energy to create our goal I would imagine.

No one expects our level to be Dortmundeque. But the work rate of those three was generally woeful, well belwow a canny conserving of energy.

And what they did on the 4 occasions we did break in 90 minutes was mostly shite. So if they were conserving energy for the "big moments" they got that pretty wrong too.
 
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