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Match Ratings Ratings vs Arsenal

MOTM

  • Lloris

    Votes: 5 2.4%
  • Aurier

    Votes: 1 0.5%
  • Foyth

    Votes: 1 0.5%
  • Verts

    Votes: 2 1.0%
  • Davies

    Votes: 2 1.0%
  • Dier

    Votes: 12 5.8%
  • Sissoko

    Votes: 7 3.4%
  • Dele

    Votes: 13 6.3%
  • Eriksen

    Votes: 11 5.3%
  • Son

    Votes: 57 27.4%
  • Kane

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Moura

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Rose

    Votes: 1 0.5%
  • Winks

    Votes: 1 0.5%
  • Undecided

    Votes: 7 3.4%
  • None deserved

    Votes: 88 42.3%

  • Total voters
    208

Japhet

Well-Known Member
Aug 30, 2010
19,232
57,388
IMO Dier and Sissoko in CM was a worse selection mistake than Foyth for Toby. We couldn't string 2 passes together when they pressed us and we needed somebody (Winks) with some composure. Vertonghen was actually the weakest link at the back and the penalty gave them a massive boost right at the start.
 

kungfugrip

Well-Known Member
Apr 8, 2005
1,613
1,523
im at a loss to understand why we get out-hussled every year in this fixture.....thats all.....

They've beaten us twice in the last 8 attempts and prior to last year we drew three times in a row at the Emirates playing some great football.
 

dannythomas

Well-Known Member
May 17, 2004
3,757
2,813
IMO Dier and Sissoko in CM was a worse selection mistake than Foyth for Toby. We couldn't string 2 passes together when they pressed us and we needed somebody (Winks) with some composure. Vertonghen was actually the weakest link at the back and the penalty gave them a massive boost right at the start.

But in the absence of Dembele , Wanyama and Lamela who would you have played in centre mid apart from Winks ? I think one of Sissoko and Dier had to play which is another indictment of our lack of activity in the transfer market to fix that CM problem. And is anyone really optimistic that Levy will let Poch bring someone in without a couple of players leaving first ?
 

Japhet

Well-Known Member
Aug 30, 2010
19,232
57,388
But in the absence of Dembele , Wanyama and Lamela who would you have played in centre mid apart from Winks ? I think one of Sissoko and Dier had to play which is another indictment of our lack of activity in the transfer market to fix that CM problem. And is anyone really optimistic that Levy will let Poch bring someone in without a couple of players leaving first ?

Winks is the obvious choice. Maybe he and Toby were knackered after Inter. Dele did a good job from a deeper position v Chelsea and I wouldn't have a problem with Foyth as DM. He's a much better technical footballer than Dier or Sissoko. It's all very easy with hindsight I suppose but we do suffer without Dembele no matter what anybody says.
 

dannythomas

Well-Known Member
May 17, 2004
3,757
2,813
Quick shout out for Juan Foyth... I really don't think he was as bad as people have been saying tonight- barring the major error that led to a goal. I admit that there is only so many times you can make that excuse for a player, especially one who has made a few errors in his first few games for us, but I think its important to see the big picture with this guy.

Really hate how he will now gain a reputation amongst the media/thick pundits/other fans for being a liability, its a little unfair, but unfortunately he will have to learn to deal with this now, as that is what it is like in the public eye in our culture. Another year of match experience and good performances and they will forget all about it.

He really does look to be a cracking player, only 20, and he WILL iron out these mistakes. He is adjusting. VERY RARELY does any centre back break through at age 20, let alone one from a completely different continent and culture.

He has my full support, I think he is going to be world class sooner rather than later.


I don’t think anyone disagrees that Foyth is going to be a top player. It was more a question of Toby not playing than Foyth being selected. Especially with Vertonghen still being short of match fitness. Alderweireld brings a presence to our defence that was badly missed yesterday. A bit like Dembele did to our midfield before his demise. Foyth not playing against Arsenal but playing against Southampton would have been better in my view. Or Toby and Foyth could have played yesterday . That would have also been fine. They played against Chelsea after all. But not Vertonghen and Foyth . That was asking for trouble and we got it. And when Poch went 3 at the back ( bad move again anyway ) why not bring Toby on instead of moving Dier back ?
 

dannythomas

Well-Known Member
May 17, 2004
3,757
2,813
Winks is the obvious choice. Maybe he and Toby were knackered after Inter. Dele did a good job from a deeper position v Chelsea and I wouldn't have a problem with Foyth as DM. He's a much better technical footballer than Dier or Sissoko. It's all very easy with hindsight I suppose but we do suffer without Dembele no matter what anybody says.

When Foyth gets to play in midfield Think Tank will throw a party.
 

spids

Well-Known Member
Jul 19, 2015
6,647
27,841
It's taken me a while to calm down after a truly shocking performance.

Overall - 4 - Out-fought, out-thought, out-performed. All over the pitch.

Lloris - 5 - Why he started insisting on short goal kicks at 2-2 and 2-3 when we were really under the cosh I will never know.
Aurier - 4 - Out of position regularly. Let the ball go under his foot and then blamed the inexperienced CB next to him. Shocking performance.
Foyth - 5- Should not have started if Alderweireld was fit. Shocking mistake for the decisive goal.
Vertonghen - 3- One of our senior players and yet his body language was really poor throughout - a bit like at Anfield under Sherwood. Stupid penalty. Stupid red card. Let people run off him all day and seemed to not want to actually put full effort in.
Davies - 5 - Played quite well defensively and made some good blocks. But his early mistake - getting caught on the ball deep in our half set the tone for the game.
Dier - 6 - Scored. Shushed their fans.
Sissoko - 5 - Reactive and always 5 yards off the pace. Not someone to grab a game in CM and should have come off for Winks at HT.
Dele - 5 - Didn't get into the game.
Eriksen - 6.5 - MOM - Only player who worked tirelessly and showed some quality.
Son - 5 - Lively first half - terrible 2nd half.
Kane - 6 - Still doesn't look fit. And out of form. Scored which is his norm I guess.

Winks - 6
Moura - 6
Rose - 5

Poch - 3 - Didn't react to Arsenal's tactics, and seemed not to notice we were getting smashed 2nd half. It was a matter of time until they scored at 1-2 and the third and fourth goals were also sadly predictable. I would have put Toby and Rose on and switched to a back 3 at HT, and then put Winks on for Sissoko 2nd half to get control of the ball. Unfortunately with Pock we now know it's a pre-planned substitute after 70 mins irrespective of the actual game.
 

whitesocks

The past means nothing. This is a message for life
Jan 16, 2014
4,652
5,738
Is it obvious Foyth going to be a top player?
The 1st rule is to be careful in defence and he hasn't learnt that.
Sure, he's young but of an age when he should be getting games.
For his breakthrough season, he gets a lot of headlines - I'd prefer if he was invisible. Steady. Learning, Settling in.

Is he good enough to be our second reserve CB? Yes.
Is he currently good enough to be first reserve, if alderweireld leaves? No.
Does he have a future here? Yes, while MP is manager.
Was he MOTM? Sorry MP, he wasn't.
 

ItsBoris

Well-Known Member
Jan 18, 2011
7,467
8,604
I felt like the whole team almost didn't expect them to be as good as they were - unjustified arrogance (probably because of the Chelsea and Inter games). So we came out of the blocks with the mindset that we were much better than them and it would be an easy game. Their intensity overwhelmed us and quality didn't matter when one side was going for the jugular and the other was playing with the same intensity level as a nice stroll in the park.

Against Chelsea we came out with the right mindset - ready for a tough fight - but for us that's a fairly rare occurrence. Normally we either come out with an inferiority complex (against teams like Barca and Man City) or with inflated egos (like against Arsenal).
 

Dannyspur

I just don't know anymore!
Aug 17, 2004
10,127
13,799
don't know if it is true - there was a headline that said Dele made 6 passes in the second half and 4 of those were kick-offs
 

dimiSpur

There's always next year...
Aug 9, 2008
5,844
6,750
I don't blame Foyth. Off the ball, he actually didn't do too badly. The problem was that Aurier was rushing out to press their bodybuilding left wing back (can't spell his name and I can't be bothered to search for it), leaving a gaping hole behind him which Iwobi was exploiting, leaving Sissoko and mostly Foyth to have to come over to cover. I know as a centre back you're meant to push over and cover the right back, but Aurier was almost going out on the half way line to meet their LWB.

On the ball, he was shocking. But again that's not his fault. How many times do we see Hugo poised to take a goal kick, where the opponent is already pressing the defenders, literally frothing at the mouth-ready to press us, and Hugo casually just knocks it to them. If our players instructions are to play around a press, then it's Poch's fault.

Hugo isn't Ederson, Dier isn't Busquets and we cannot play around that kind of a press. So just fucking knock it long, try not to concede a goal for the first 20-25 mins until they either tire or the crowd shuts the fuck up.

It's not rocket science, and that cost us the game, because we played straight into their hands, encouraging the press with shit passing and encouraging the crowd to get on their feet and go crazy, creating a heated and unwelcome atmosphere in which it knock it around.

I love Poch, but I sincerely hope he learns from that game. I do doubt that hope of mine though, because Liverpool did the same and we didn't proactively change anything there either. When the opposition is pressing that aggressively, we must adapt. We are not good enough to play around that kind of a high paced press. Poch needs to understand that.
 
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whitesocks

The past means nothing. This is a message for life
Jan 16, 2014
4,652
5,738
I don't blame Foyth. Off the ball, he actually didn't do too badly. The problem was that Aurier was rushing out to press their bodybuilding left wing back (can't spell his name and I can't be bothered to search for it), leaving a gaping hole behind him which Iwobi was exploiting, leaving Sissoko and mostly Foyth to have to come over to cover. I know as a centre back you're meant to push over and cover the right back, but Aurier was almost going out on the half way line to meet their LWB.

On the ball, he was shocking. But again that's not his fault. How many times do we see Hugo poised to take a goal kick, where the opponent is already pressing the defenders, literally frothing at the mouth-ready to press us, and Hugo casually just knocks it to them. If our players instructions are to play around a press, then it's Poch's fault.

Hugo isn't Ederson, Dier isn't Busquets and we cannot play around that kind of a press. So just fucking knock it long, try not to concede a goal for the first 20-25 mins until they either tire or the crowd shuts the fuck up.

It's not rocket science, and that cost us the game, because we played straight into their hands, encouraging the press with shit passing and encouraging the crowd to get on their feet and go crazy, creating a heated and unwelcome atmosphere in which it knock it around.

I love Poch, but I sincerely hope he learns from that game. I do doubt that hope of mine though, because Liverpool did the same and we didn't proactively change anything there either. When the opposition is that pressing that aggressively, we must adapt. We are not good enough to play around that kind of a high paced press. Poch needs to understand that.
Lloris couldn't just punt it long as Arse had a back 5 - Kane wouldn't have stood a chance, remembering he isn't a traditional no. 9 anyway.
The answer was for us to match them up, but if Alderweireld was injured and Dier was needed in midfield, then I guess we didn't have that option to play a back 5.
 

dimiSpur

There's always next year...
Aug 9, 2008
5,844
6,750
Lloris couldn't just punt it long as Arse had a back 5 - Kane wouldn't have stood a chance, remembering he isn't a traditional no. 9 anyway.
The answer was for us to match them up, but if Alderweireld was injured and Dier was needed in midfield, then I guess we didn't have that option to play a back 5.
So you're saying we took the correct option? :cautious:
 
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