Ratings vs Burnley

Discussion in 'Match Reports' started by Bulletspur, Dec 20, 2014.

MOM

  1. Lloris

    12 vote(s)
    4.0%
  2. Walker

    2 vote(s)
    0.7%
  3. Fazio

    2 vote(s)
    0.7%
  4. Verts

    2 vote(s)
    0.7%
  5. Davies

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  6. Bentaleb

    1 vote(s)
    0.3%
  7. Mason

    8 vote(s)
    2.7%
  8. Lamela

    171 vote(s)
    56.8%
  9. Eriksen

    68 vote(s)
    22.6%
  10. Chadli

    6 vote(s)
    2.0%
  11. Kane

    21 vote(s)
    7.0%
  12. Stambouli

    1 vote(s)
    0.3%
  13. Soldado

    1 vote(s)
    0.3%
  14. Rose

    2 vote(s)
    0.7%
  15. Undecided

    3 vote(s)
    1.0%
  16. None Deserved

    1 vote(s)
    0.3%
  1. THFCSPURS19

    THFCSPURS19 Well-Known Member

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    Cheeky omission of Walker from the list.
     
  2. Bus-Conductor

    Bus-Conductor SC Supporter

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    I said young minds, not infantile.
     
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  3. THFCSPURS19

    THFCSPURS19 Well-Known Member

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    Almost all the players you listed have made just as many poor decisions as Walker-the only exception is probably Eriksen
     
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  4. eddiebailey

    eddiebailey Well-Known Member

    Messages:
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    +5,438 / 422 / -118
    I swear no-one on here is able to remember back more than one game.
     
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  5. eddiebailey

    eddiebailey Well-Known Member

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    That is true, but you can see where the journos are coming from: our starting line-up is as much a testimony to the failure of our transfer strategy as it is the success of our youth policy. If the signings had been a success the homegrown kids would not have got a look in.
     
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  6. Bus-Conductor

    Bus-Conductor SC Supporter

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    I very much disagree. Our transfer policy is generally better than most other team's and has been a major influence on us achieving consistent top 4/5/6 finishes over the last few years including the last couple when we supposedly wasted 100m.

    Few teams have got better value than us in recent years on player trading.

    The reason we are seeing more academy players right now is as a consequence of a strategy put in place several years ago by Levy helped by Arnesen and delivered by John McDermott. Our academy is going all round the world winning tournaments, beating the likes of Barca 4-1, Inter 8-0 winning the U21 league etc etc. That is now coming to fruition.

    Even on Saturday there were signings that represent good transfer business such as Lloris, Vertonghen, Eriksen, Chadli, Walker. All have given good service and will be worth more than we paid for them.
     
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  7. Marty

    Marty Throbbing member

    Messages:
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    Have you had a stroke?
     
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  8. Bus-Conductor

    Bus-Conductor SC Supporter

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    Whatever my gripes about Walker are, he's been good value as we only paid a couple of bob for him.
     
  9. StartingPrice

    StartingPrice Chief Sardonicus Hyperlip

    Messages:
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    +10,477 / 107 / -86
     
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  10. StartingPrice

    StartingPrice Chief Sardonicus Hyperlip

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    Exactly.

    Bolded text: With the information on the OS, available on t'Internet, and the number of times it has been put together and stated on here, I am amazed that there are still folk on this forum who just don't get that this is a central part of the strategic vision. AVB issued a statement, when he joined, to the effect that he was in complete accordance with the club for the aspirations for youth progression. His failure to act on this, and, particularly, his ring-fencing of the 1st team squad and exclusion of the youth, was according to ITK one of the issues that led to his exit. One of the main reasons Sherwood was given a chance was that he knew the younglings and was clearly prepared to play them - indeed, malicious tongues claim that he was one of the primary whisperers in Levy's ear concerning AVB's exclsuion of the youth, etc. Pochettino, likewise, made a statement concerning his willingness to promote from the youth set-up, acted on it, discussed at length his excitement at the youth set-up on a recent window, and had the reputation for doing exactly the same particularly at Southampton.

    Pochettino was willing to give absolutely everyone a chance, so there is absolutely zero evidence that he came in with any agenda against any of our players - including those in midfield. So his decision to play Mason from early on makes it far more likely that he really did just see him as the best option, rather than as some kind of default to revert to because the big money midfielders performed so woefully. Just my opinion, of course.
     
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  11. eddiebailey

    eddiebailey Well-Known Member

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    I agree that the club has had a strategy to develop youth, but in a typical right hand doesn't known what the left hand is doing sort of way, we have also spent big on players (even if that was financed by player sales). If Soldado, Paulinho and Capoue had not failed Kane, Bentaleb and Mason would never have been given a chance.
     
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  12. Bus-Conductor

    Bus-Conductor SC Supporter

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    Or the left hand rubs the right hand up the wrong way.
     
  13. Bus-Conductor

    Bus-Conductor SC Supporter

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    Sherwood wasn't given a chance, he was given a golden handshake.
     
  14. StartingPrice

    StartingPrice Chief Sardonicus Hyperlip

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    The point I am making is this:
    That may have been the case under AVB - but that was bought about in part by AVB making the empty words about being in full accordance with our youth-based strategic vision and then ring-fencing the 1st team and showing little inclination to promote youth. I understand what you are saying - we signed players last summer that we cold probably have done without if their had been more systematic, and less confrontational, liaison between the youth set-up and the 1st team. For all we know, he could have given Mason a chance last August the way that Pochettino did this. And Sherwood showed immediately that Bentaleb was clearly good enough to be an option in the 1st team, if not first choice. Apparently this is part of Mitchell's remit - and so we should hope that the situation won't arise again (and maybe, in fairness to AVB, part of the problem was Sherwood - some folk confuse confrontation and domination with cimmunication).

    But, and this is the crux of it for me, Pochettino came in at the start of the summer. He wasn't bound by anything from the previous administration. He made the same soundbites that AVB did regarding the club's youth policy. Unlike AVB, however, he has a record of doing it and of doing it in the EPL. So, when he immediately decided Mason was exactly what he needed in midfield, he played him irrelevant of how good or how bad any other members of the squad were. Bentaleb had already shown that he was up for 1st team duty under Sherwood. Kane is a slightly different case, and I agree that it could be interpreted that he had some obligation to play Soldado thanks to his price and Adebayor thanks to his record after Sherwood included him, etc. At the same time, it is often overlooked that Kane was a target for Poch, so it is, IMHO, erroneous to imagine that he wouldn't have got his chance.

    In essence, you are basing your argument on pre-Poch, where I am not wholly disagreeing just pointing out that an element in that was in AVB saying he was au fait with our youth centred aspirations and then doing the opposite. I am, on the contrary, basing my argument specifically on what Pochettino has done and I don't believe there is anything to say he is only playing the likes of Kane, Mason and Bentaleb because of failings from more senior players. Hope this clarifies :)
     
  15. Japhet

    Japhet Well-Known Member

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    +9,216 / 268 / -55
    Perhaps you'd like to have a go at telling me what Bentaleb does (since his introduction to the first X1) to justify the hype then. As far as I can tell, he's neat and tidy with the ball but doesn't score goals, doesn't create chances for others, doesn't control tempo, doesn't tackle, track or mark very well and doesn't form solid partnerships with the numerous others he gets paired with. I don't have a particular 'down' on Bentaleb, but I don't get what the excitement is about. I also know that he is young, but so was Paul Gascoigne, for instance, when he was spotted as a real talent.
     
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  16. Spursidol

    Spursidol Well-Known Member

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    Bentaleb is being chosen because Poch thinks he offers what Poch wants in a CM in terms of being defensively capable as well as capable of passing forward to support our attack etc - with Mason and he offerring more than others in the squad.

    Stambouli's performance in the 2nd half against Burnley seemed to confirm that he did not offer as much as Mason (hence our 2nd half performance suffered) , whilst Dembele may be good as dribbling (we won'rt talk about end product), but passing is not his forte and nor is defence. And Paulhino was played by AVB as a sort of DM, but Poch agrees with most on SC that was not a success - so Poch plays him as an AM.
     
  17. Spursidol

    Spursidol Well-Known Member

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    Think you should have qualified these comments with - 'except in summer 2013 where we seemed to have undone much of our previous good work'

    Soldado - a generaly non scoring striker ?
    Lamela - everyone hopes he comes good but a good buy for £25m or £30m ? Needs to improve an 'ell of a lot on current form to justify that price tage or justify a regular starting place at Spurs - regular PL goalscoring would help
    Paulhino - Despite some better performances from him, would we buy him again for £17m ?
    Chirches - heart attack inducing tactics on the edge of the penalty area are not my idea of a top CB
    Capoue - half a dozen decent performances at the start of this season.....and it went downhill from there (and the first two last season before injury), Wll he persuade Poch he rally really wants to play for us

    On the good side, Eriksen looks very good whilst Chadli contributes goals but maybe needs to do more ?

    But generally we've done reasonably well, but 2013, 'ouch' !
     
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  18. Bus-Conductor

    Bus-Conductor SC Supporter

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    To be fair to Stambouli (who I don't think is a long term solution FWIW) we saw similar drop off in performance in the games against Swansea and Palace where Mason was subbed off in both.

    I said this when it was Capoue (Villa away etc) getting all the blame, I said it after Mason (Palace, Swansea) and now Stambouli. In fact I've been saying the same thing for years when we were playing a CM2 under Jol and Redknapp and it was (in rough chronological order) Jenas, Palacios, Parker, Sandro getting the blame. It doesn't matter who you play in a CM2 if all those around them are fucking about. A CM2 can be easily pulled around and made to look bad when they have a load of chocolate teapots around them who don't work for the team and don't do things in a disciplined and diligent way. And as we have seen all season so far, this is what's been happening. For big phases in games our forwards and wide players have stopped pressing and working in harmony with each other.

    We have started to do this in phases now, which is good, but as we have seen throughout this season, it doesn't matter who we play there, if the rest of the team aren't working, they will be made to look bad. West Brom, Stoke, Palace and now Burnley with a collection of different CM2 combinations have all ended up being bullied out of stride.
     
    Last edited: Dec 23, 2014
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  19. Bus-Conductor

    Bus-Conductor SC Supporter

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    But that is to a large extent the nature of transfers. They can't all work when you are shopping in the "value" isle. I don't have a problem with any of the logic we followed with most of those transfers, even Lamela after scoring 15 for Roma, aged 21, on the way to finishing 2nd in Italy.

    I reckon we won't lose too much money overall on that 2013 group.
     
  20. prawnsandwich

    prawnsandwich Well-Known Member

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    One of the best quotes you are ever likely to read on a fan site.
     
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