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Ratings vs Chelsea

MOM

  • Lloris

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Chiiriches

    Votes: 1 0.4%
  • Fazio

    Votes: 15 5.8%
  • Verts

    Votes: 1 0.4%
  • Davies

    Votes: 2 0.8%
  • Bentaleb

    Votes: 151 58.8%
  • Mason

    Votes: 1 0.4%
  • Lennon

    Votes: 1 0.4%
  • Lamela

    Votes: 6 2.3%
  • Eriksen

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Kane

    Votes: 65 25.3%
  • Paulinho

    Votes: 1 0.4%
  • Chadli

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Soldado

    Votes: 2 0.8%
  • Undecided

    Votes: 11 4.3%

  • Total voters
    257

Bobbins

SC's 14th Sexiest Male 2008
May 5, 2005
21,548
45,031
I'd prefer to watch a player worth the £25m...or £30m we paid for Lamela ...rather than one requiring extensive coaching.

Extensive?

How much coaching does it take to take him to one side for 5 minutes every day in training and say:

- Try and look for an earlier pass when the opportunity's there
- Keep your head up a bit more and try and avoid running down a blind alley a couple of times each game
- When defending, focus more on covering the attacker goal-side rather than always commiting to winning the ball which is risky
- We need you to be a little bit more disciplined in general - express yourself, but aim to only do it when it won't put us at too much risk defensively

There you go, I've just single-handedly coached Lamela's biggest faults out of his game. Let me at 'im!

By the end of the season I'm confident we'll see him much improved as he's adapted to the league - he's already our top assister this season and according to some on here he's apparently struggling. Not what I see.
 

Bus-Conductor

SC Supporter
Oct 19, 2004
39,837
50,713
you seem to be missing the point here. i'm quite sure jh is asking why you're constantly brining up lennon and townsend as a comparison to lamela when you constantly slate both. saying lamela is better than two players you think are crap isn't the basis of a strong defence.

p.s. it was £26m if you insist on being pedantic.

No, it's you and JH who are completely missing the point and/or obfuscating it.

Read what I am saying.

I'm not making a "big" defence of Lamela, I'm making "a" defence. The basis for that is that as we have seen previously, young players can take time to fulfil potential and secondly he is here, in our squad now and regardless of whether he is showing value for money currently, that is irrelevant to Pochettino when picking his best 11 - or me when deciding who I want to play in that 11.

Do I think 25.8m was steep ? yes. But we were exceedingly flush, and he has just had a pretty spangly season at Roma as a 20/21 yo. What was Bale doing at 20 ? And if he'd gone to Liverpool say, done a Bale and scored 21 goals (along with the assists, passing and work off the ball) everyone would have been up in arms "Baldini could have had him for 25m, what a twat".
 

Bus-Conductor

SC Supporter
Oct 19, 2004
39,837
50,713
Do you think it would be difficult to upgrade on Lamela?

Or do you think he is nailed on to terrorise the PL in the same way that Bale did?

Well, our track record of signing world class attacking midfielders isn't exactly inspiring.

Do I think he will become as valuable to a team as Bale was in his final season ? I lean toward not. Did any of us think Bale would become a 90m footballer capable of scoring 20+ goals a season when he was 21/22 ?

Do I think he's (Lamela) making an acceptable contribution to our team now ? yes, most games. Do I think he could get more valuable and productive ? Yes, definitely. And I don't see the point at the moment in not giving him time to do that because he's already producing more than the other viable options.
 

felmani26

SC Supporter
Jan 1, 2008
24,362
43,015
well right now the net result of townsend's shots(which i think he has massively cut down on by the way) and lamela's running into players/dead ends is the same isn't it?
Crudely put but the sentiment is correct.

No matter how you look at it, the same level of output with the caveat being Townsend didn't cost us a bean!
 

felmani26

SC Supporter
Jan 1, 2008
24,362
43,015
Well, our track record of signing world class attacking midfielders isn't exactly inspiring.

Do I think he will become as valuable to a team as Bale was in his final season ? I lean toward not. Did any of us think Bale would become a 90m footballer capable of scoring 20+ goals a season when he was 21/22 ?

Do I think he's (Lamela) making an acceptable contribution to our team now ? yes, most games. Do I think he could get more valuable and productive ? Yes, definitely. And I don't see the point at the moment in not giving him time to do that because he's already producing more than the other viable options.
Hugely subjective BC.

Lamela, IMHO, is producing no more as an attacker than Dembele is as a midfielder, ergo, both wouldn't be missed if not selected in the starting line up right this minute.
 

Blake Griffin

Well-Known Member
Oct 3, 2011
14,133
38,225
No, it's you and JH who are completely missing the point and/or obfuscating it.

Read what I am saying.

I'm not making a "big" defence of Lamela, I'm making "a" defence. The basis for that is that as we have seen previously, young players can take time to fulfil potential and secondly he is here, in our squad now and regardless of whether he is showing value for money currently, that is irrelevant to Pochettino when picking his best 11 - or me when deciding who I want to play in that 11.

Do I think 25.8m was steep ? yes. But we were exceedingly flush, and he has just had a pretty spangly season at Roma as a 20/21 yo. What was Bale doing at 20 ? And if he'd gone to Liverpool say, done a Bale and scored 21 goals (along with the assists, passing and work off the ball) everyone would have been up in arms "Baldini could have had him for 25m, what a twat".

i don't particularly care about the fee, i thought it was there or thereabouts for a player of that age and rep. i care about how he's performing and progressing for thfc and it seems your strongest defence of him is to compare him to two players you think are rubbish. by and large he's been pretty pants in the league and is actually regressing if anything, you can console yourself by telling everyone he's better than lennon and townsend, or how he has four assists(which are probably negated by goals he's actually cost us, arsenal? man city?), or how many times he touches the ball, or his pass completion percentage, all of which actually make your argument look weaker. he still has time but excuses can't keep being made for him, at some point he needs to start showing signs that he's beginning to get it.
 

Bobbins

SC's 14th Sexiest Male 2008
May 5, 2005
21,548
45,031
Crudely put but the sentiment is correct.

No matter how you look at it, the same level of output with the caveat being Townsend didn't cost us a bean!

It's not the same level of output though, since Lamela already has more assists this season than Townsend and Lennon combined got in the whole of last season, and has only played a fraction of the games. That's not even counting his goals and assists in the Europa games.

Quite apart from his overall contribution, even the stats don't support this idea that somehow Lamela isn't contributing. He is. We all want him to contribute more, because he's capable of it. With some time and patience he almost certainly will.
 

jonathanhotspur

Loose Cannon
Jun 28, 2009
10,292
8,250
Well, our track record of signing world class attacking midfielders isn't exactly inspiring.

Are you telling me that we could only upgrade him by signing a world class attacking midfielder?

Do I think he will become as valuable to a team as Bale was in his final season ? I lean toward not. Did any of us think Bale would become a 90m footballer capable of scoring 20+ goals a season when he was 21/22 ?

I didn't see it coming (20+ goals a season) but Bale was capable of wreaking havoc at the age of 22, albeit inconsistently.

Do I think he's (Lamela) making an acceptable contribution to our team now ? yes, most games. Do I think he could get more valuable and productive ? Yes, definitely. And I don't see the point at the moment in not giving him time to do that because he's already producing more than the other viable options.

Bit of a Hobson's choice, isn't it?
 

Mr Pink

SC Supporter
Aug 25, 2010
54,770
99,331
The time for Lamela started at the start of this season - not now, but his general understanding of the English language and his ability to watch Pl to see how its played, the physicality etc is now almost 18 months in..

14 games into the PL season (and EL/cup games) and Lamela seems to need a lot more time to live up to the consistent £30m star we thought we had bought. Its taking a long time.

Disagree. We've looked very hit and miss until Sunday, so its not surprising a lot of them, individually, havn't looked great.
 

felmani26

SC Supporter
Jan 1, 2008
24,362
43,015
It's not the same level of output though, since Lamela already has more assists this season than Townsend and Lennon combined got in the whole of last season, and has only played a fraction of the games. That's not even counting his goals and assists in the Europa games.

Quite apart from his overall contribution, even the stats don't support this idea that somehow Lamela isn't contributing. He is. We all want him to contribute more, because he's capable of it. With some time and patience he almost certainly will.
Please, let's bring some statistics in here because last time I checked, in 23 league appearances across two seasons, he hasn't scored a single league goal which for a supposed goal-scoring advanced midfielder like Erik, that's a pretty galling stat line.

Forget comparing him then to Townsend or Lennon - to which nobody is claiming is the answer to our woes either - let's try comparing him to Eriksen considering they can both be free spirits behind the forward and see how well he fares?!
 

jonathanhotspur

Loose Cannon
Jun 28, 2009
10,292
8,250
Extensive?

How much coaching does it take to take him to one side for 5 minutes every day in training and say:

- Try and look for an earlier pass when the opportunity's there
- Keep your head up a bit more and try and avoid running down a blind alley a couple of times each game
- When defending, focus more on covering the attacker goal-side rather than always commiting to winning the ball which is risky
- We need you to be a little bit more disciplined in general - express yourself, but aim to only do it when it won't put us at too much risk defensively

There you go, I've just single-handedly coached Lamela's biggest faults out of his game. Let me at 'im!

By the end of the season I'm confident we'll see him much improved as he's adapted to the league - he's already our top assister this season and according to some on here he's apparently struggling. Not what I see.
What about this issue with his right foot-that he wouldn't know what it was for if it jumped up and bit him on the arse?
 

Time for Heroes

Well-Known Member
Sep 5, 2012
780
1,250
We need to stop comparing everyone to Bale.

Bale is a freak example of a player who's 'output' drastically changed within the space of a couple of years.

However, there are plenty of talented footballers whos careers end up going down the toilet somewhat, and Lamela is arguably more likely to fall into this category then becoming another Bale.
 

Blake Griffin

Well-Known Member
Oct 3, 2011
14,133
38,225
It's not the same level of output though, since Lamela already has more assists this season than Townsend and Lennon combined got in the whole of last season, and has only played a fraction of the games. That's not even counting his goals and assists in the Europa games.

Quite apart from his overall contribution, even the stats don't support this idea that somehow Lamela isn't contributing. He is. We all want him to contribute more, because he's capable of it. With some time and patience he almost certainly will.

ultimately, last season now means nothing. this season lennon is assisting at a better rate than lamela and for many is a better fit overall for the team, right now at least anyway.
 

Bobbins

SC's 14th Sexiest Male 2008
May 5, 2005
21,548
45,031
Disagree. We've looked very hit and miss until Sunday, so its no surprising a lot of them, individually, havn't looked great.

Exactly, we've been a total mess for 18 months, why suddenly people are expecting Lamela to be playing much better than every other player in the squad all of a sudden makes no sense - unless it's the price tag again.

Lamela has looked no worse (or better) than the vast majority of his team-mates - until Sunday. Suddenly in the Everton game things seemed to come together.

Let's see how Lamela does playing in an apparently more unified, confident and cohesive side shall we?
 

Bobbins

SC's 14th Sexiest Male 2008
May 5, 2005
21,548
45,031
ultimately, last season now means nothing. this season lennon is assisting at a better rate than lamela and for many is a better fit overall for the team, right now at least anyway.

He's certainly had two decent games...
 

Time for Heroes

Well-Known Member
Sep 5, 2012
780
1,250
Exactly, we've been a total mess for 18 months, why suddenly people are expecting Lamela to be playing much better than every other player in the squad all of a sudden makes no sense - unless it's the price tag again.

Lamela has looked no worse (or better) than the vast majority of his team-mates - until Sunday. Suddenly in the Everton game things seemed to come together.

Let's see how Lamela does playing in an apparently more unified, confident and cohesive side shall we?

It was more unified because he wasnt playing!!
 

felmani26

SC Supporter
Jan 1, 2008
24,362
43,015
We need to stop comparing everyone to Bale.

Bale is a freak example of a player who's 'output' drastically changed within the space of a couple of years.

However, there are plenty of talented footballers whos careers end up going down the toilet somewhat, and Lamela is arguably more likely to fall into this category then becoming another Bale.
Exactly.

It's along the same lines as "well look at Fergie when he was United manager and almost got sacked"!
 

alfie103

Well-Known Member
Jun 4, 2005
3,967
4,441
Extensive?

How much coaching does it take to take him to one side for 5 minutes every day in training and say:

- Try and look for an earlier pass when the opportunity's there
- Keep your head up a bit more and try and avoid running down a blind alley a couple of times each game
- When defending, focus more on covering the attacker goal-side rather than always commiting to winning the ball which is risky
- We need you to be a little bit more disciplined in general - express yourself, but aim to only do it when it won't put us at too much risk defensively

There you go, I've just single-handedly coached Lamela's biggest faults out of his game. Let me at 'im!

By the end of the season I'm confident we'll see him much improved as he's adapted to the league - he's already our top assister this season and according to some on here he's apparently struggling. Not what I see.

If it is so easy as you put it, why does he keep making these mistakes? If you can point it out then I am sure Pochettino and his coaching staff sure can.
 

Bobbins

SC's 14th Sexiest Male 2008
May 5, 2005
21,548
45,031
Please, let's bring some statistics in here because last time I checked, in 23 league appearances across two seasons, he hasn't scored a single league goal which for a supposed goal-scoring advanced midfielder like Erik, that's a pretty galling stat line.

Forget comparing him then to Townsend or Lennon - to which nobody is claiming is the answer to our woes either - let's try comparing him to Eriksen considering they can both be free spirits behind the forward and see how well he fares?!

Huh? That post doesn't make any sense I'm afraid. I used stats to refute the idea that he's not contributed, and to challenge your agreement with the suggestion that he's contributed the same amount as Townsend (nothing), which is not true. Whether you think he's contributed enough is a different matter. I didn't bring up the idea of comparing him with Lennon and Townsend, I just corrected the point that he's produced more than the pair of them combined.

What about this issue with his right foot-that he wouldn't know what it was for if it jumped up and bit him on the arse?

Not bothered really JH. Haven't seen it have a massively adverse effect on his (or any other players for that matter) game.

Are we really devolving down to picking on which foot he favours? Does this subject matter that much? Or are we all just a bit bored on a Friday waiting for the game tomorrow?
 
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