Ratings vs Chelsea

[Bus-Conductor]

If we spent £30million for a marginal improvement on Lennon then that's a damning indictment of our transfer policy if ever I saw one!

And that's a whole different, but valid debate.

 

[Spursidol]

Nail on head.

We've been doing things wrong for several seasons now. We buy players for the sake of buying players. We should be buying players to play in a specific position which is also their natural position, which fits into a system they're comfortable with.

We don't buy the right players for whatever system we seem to be trying to implement, on a regular basis.

Now I think lots can agree with that post.

And that's my fear with Lamela, he's not playing as the highly talented Roma goalscring, chance creating player that he was. So was he th right player to bring in for £26m/£30m ?

 

[Spursidol]

And that's a whole different, but valid debate.

I'd put it slightly differently.

Is the £26m/£30m Lamela a sufficient upgrade on the £1m Lennon, can we see the multiple times as good player we should have got for that.

 

[JamieSpursCommunityUser]

I'll be genuinely surprised if, come the end of the season, Lennon matches Lamela's goals/assists contribution given the same number of minutes played (roughly).

Lennon's been one of the most unproductive players at the club for at least a couple of years.

True, but picking the best team is seldom about picking your best 11 footballers.

But instead about having the most balanced, effective unit. Mitigating threats, and exposing weaknesses.

Lamela RIGHT + Erikssen/Chadli/Lennon LEFT is a disaster and horribly narrow.

Unless you have exceptional attacking full backs, which we don't (for the time being).

Lamela at 10 takes Kane out of his best position, and Kane/Soldado deserve to start together after Everton.

In the short term I'd rather play Kane, Erikssen, Lennon, Soldado - all in their best positions - than unbalance the whole team by catering for an and out of form Lamela.

Walker coming back will help him - and he'll get chances to start over Xmas, hopefully he takes them.

 

[Mr Pink]

Yup, but you would hope the £30m players would help lead us to a better standard of team play. However at the moment it seems to be the Spurs developed Kane, Bentaleb and Mason with the less expensive Eriksen et al

I think he will if we're patient.

We've paid for the potential so I don't see the problem with remaining patient, certainly up until now anyway. His circumstances are different to the ones you've listed as well. New country, doesn't speak the language and was injured for most of last season, which has been stated repeatedly

 

[Time for Heroes]

One game got any others?

Was Everton our best performance of the season jezz? Right or wrong?

If so, why do we need other examples of us looking better with Lennon?

Infact, how can we have other examples if Lennon has barely played this season?

Same team as last Sunday please Poch (Dont bring on Lamela at 60 again though)

 

[sim0n]

Adam Lallana who cost the same with proven EPL experience.
Struggling to adapt to a new EPL team.

Okay, this is a semi-relevant parallel here Herr Jezz. But Lallana for 4 months versus Lamela at a year and 4 months is not quite the same...

...and style points to you for an alliterative parallel exemplified in your post

most ratings for Lamela for this match are 5s and 6s, so he did not have a great game... let's see how he does tomorrow. Maybe he should come off the bench for Lennon in the 60th minute?... I know you expect him to start, but he can be effective off the bench as well...

 

[jezz]

Was Everton our best performance of the season jezz? Right or wrong?

If so, why do we need other examples of us looking better with Lennon?

Infact, how can we have other examples if Lennon has barely played this season?

Same team as last Sunday please Poch (Dont bring on Lamela at 60 again though)

Nope I think the Southampton, Sunderland games we played brilliantly and better.
So yes we need more games.
Although against palace I would pick the same 11 as Everton.

 

[jezz]

Okay, this is a semi-relevant parallel here Herr Jezz. But Lallana for 4 months versus Lamela at a year and 4 months is not quite the same...

...and style points to you for an alliterative parallel exemplified in your post

most ratings for Lamela for this match are 5s and 6s, so he did not have a great game... let's see how he does tomorrow. Maybe he should come off the bench for Lennon in the 60th minute?... I know you expect him to start, but he can be effective off the bench as well...

See above

 

[jezz]

Okay, this is a semi-relevant parallel here Herr Jezz. But Lallana for 4 months versus Lamela at a year and 4 months is not quite the same...

...and style points to you for an alliterative parallel exemplified in your post

most ratings for Lamela for this match are 5s and 6s, so he did not have a great game... let's see how he does tomorrow. Maybe he should come off the bench for Lennon in the 60th minute?... I know you expect him to start, but he can be effective off the bench as well...

Still counting last year?
Simple comes to mind.

 

[Spursidol]

I think he will if we're patient.

We've paid for the potential so I don't see the problem with remaining patient, certainly up until now anyway. His circumstances are different to the ones you've listed as well. New country, doesn't speak the language and was injured for most of last season, which has been stated repeatedly

Whilst he wasn't playing much last season, he's now been in the UK for almost 18 months - so he should certainly be familar with English (at least enough to get by in understanding it even if not fluent) by now and if he's not, then its going to be a long time before he is.

Equally although injured for a good part of last season, he was certainly training for part of it - and played a couple of games - plus would have had plenty of time to study videos of PL games, showing him how hard and physical it can be versus the Italien league so he should have had some time aclimatising last season - this season would not have been such a step up as someone coming to the PL brand new a couple of months ago.

So coming into this season fit and partly aclimatised, I would expect to see somethng from Lamela - but all I have seen have been glimpses, and most of the glimpses have been in cup/EL games against lesser opposition, which means he does need to step up to the PL standard or we have another Sergei Rebrov, Gio Dos Santos type issue - great in foreign leagues but not in PL matches which are fast phsical and sometimes 3 times a week.

 

[Mr Pink]

Whilst he wasn't playing much last season, he's now been in the UK for almost 18 months - so he should certainly be familar with English (at least enough to get by in understanding it even if not fluent) by now and if he's not, then its going to be a long time before he is.

Equally although injured for a good part of last season, he was certainly training for part of it - and played a couple of games - plus would have had plenty of time to study videos of PL games, showing him how hard and physical it can be versus the Italien league so he should have had some time aclimatising last season - this season would not have been such a step up as someone coming to the PL brand new a couple of months ago.

So coming into this season fit and partly aclimatised, I would expect to see somethng from Lamela - but all I have seen have been glimpses, and most of the glimpses have been in cup/EL games against lesser opposition, which means he does need to step up to the PL standard or we have another Sergei Rebrov, Gio Dos Santos type issue - great in foreign leagues but not in PL matches which are fast phsical and sometimes 3 times a week.

I get all that, but until the 'team' are playing with more consistency, in terms of Pochettino's style, I don't see the point in being overly critical at this stage. Forget last season.

For instance, if we keep up what we saw on Sunday for the majority of the season and Lamela is still flattering to deceive in such a framework/structure I'd be getting critical as well.

All I'm saying is lets see how we continue, as a team - far more important at this juncture anyway, before we scrutinize Lamela's performances too intensely.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

yes, lennon should've done better in that instance, just like lamela should've done better against arsenal and city. i don't know what relevance lennon's previous 250 games has on who is better for the team right now so i wish you'd stop bringing up such a nonsensical point. i wouldn't be against both lennon and lamela playing in the same team were it not for eriksen and kane being much better/more effective players than lamela currently, not to mention chadli. i want lennon in the team at this moment, we have little pace without him, he opens up the game for others around him, he's a more effective presser and his teammates trust that he'll make the right decision more often than not even if it is usually the safer choice.

We simply see it differently then I guess. Lamela made mistakes trying, Lennon was just lazy as he has been been for most of his career. He shadows people from a distance but rarely tackles or wins the ball. His influence of games in terms of involvement is about as minimal as is possible for a EPL player, and his end product is nowhere near good enough to put up with the negatives I have just mentioned.

I gave him credit for how he played against Everton, but that game just proves what he doesn't do habitually. Against Chelsea he put in a half decent cross, cost us a goal, and then went awol. That is just not good enough.

Lamela gave us much more in that game, and that shouldn't be the case when comparing a 22yo in his second season, and a 27yo with nine years experience.

So it's not just about the fact that I believe Lamela is providing more already, it's about how much more he could provide, if like Bale, we give him time and good coaching. Undoubtedly more than Lennon.

 

[Spursidol]

I get all that, but until the 'team' are playing with more consistency, in terms of Pochettino's style, I don't see the point in being overly critical at this stage. Forget last season.

For instance, if we keep up what we saw on Sunday for the majority of the season and Lamela is still flattering to deceive in such a framework/structure I'd be getting critical as well.

All I'm saying is lets see how we continue, as a team - far more important at this juncture anyway, before we scrutinize Lamela's performances too intensely.

Agre with the team being more important - just a tad disappointed that against Everton, probably our best performance this season and the best by a number of players, I didn't see Lamela's performance being much different to that in other games. Might be boring on the subject but he does need to have a few blinders (in the right way) in PL and play at a generally higher level of perfornance than he has for the team overall to improve.

 

[jonathanhotspur]

Whilst he wasn't playing much last season, he's now been in the UK for almost 18 months - so he should certainly be familar with English (at least enough to get by in understanding it even if not fluent) by now and if he's not, then its going to be a long time before he is.

Equally although injured for a good part of last season, he was certainly training for part of it - and played a couple of games - plus would have had plenty of time to study videos of PL games, showing him how hard and physical it can be versus the Italien league so he should have had some time aclimatising last season - this season would not have been such a step up as someone coming to the PL brand new a couple of months ago.

So coming into this season fit and partly aclimatised, I would expect to see somethng from Lamela - but all I have seen have been glimpses, and most of the glimpses have been in cup/EL games against lesser opposition, which means he does need to step up to the PL standard or we have another Sergei Rebrov, Gio Dos Santos type issue - great in foreign leagues but not in PL matches which are fast phsical and sometimes 3 times a week.

And let's not forget how most us were hoping and even expecting him to kick on under an Argentinian manager.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

I'd put it slightly differently.

Is the £26m/£30m Lamela a sufficient upgrade on the £1m Lennon, can we see the multiple times as good player we should have got for that.

I think you are being deliberately over simplistic in order to make a very bogus case.

You know it isn't that black and white. When we bought Bale for 10m (5+5) from Southampton would we have said that he was 10 times better than Lennon at 1m for the first 3 years of his time with us ?

The circumstances of transfers can vary massively and this dictates a price.

Was 26m a fair rate for Lamela, given al the circumstances, his age, his contract, his performances to date, his potential to improve and increase and reach current market values ?

I'd say it was on the expensive side for sure, but I can understand it in a maker place when Bale had just scored 6 goals more aged 24/25 and had been valued at 90m.

No one would argue that Lennon has been great value for his original 1m fee. But has he been value for his salary for 9 years ?

If Lamela does fulfil some of that potential and we make 20m form him, we can buy 20 Lennons. Part of our financial model is speculating on the transfer market. I have more problem with paying 6m + wages for a player who will not improve the first at all, has no potential to improve in ability or value and his skilset is replicated in the development group.

 

[jonathanhotspur]

Lamela gave us much more in that game, and that shouldn't be the case when comparing a 22yo in his second season, and a 27yo with nine years experience.

So it's not just about the fact that I believe Lamela is providing more already, it's about how much more he could provide, if like Bale, we give him time and good coaching. Undoubtedly more than Lennon.

Why did you call me two-bob, BC?

Yes, Lennon was poor but what did Lamela give us against Chelsea? Was he there just to help us keep the score down?

 

[mpickard2087]

I'm not sure why all the focus is on Lamela here. Eriksen has chipped in with a few goals recently but I'd say the majority of his performances this season in the league have been equally unconvincing.

 

[Blake Griffin]

Why did you call me two-bob, BC?

Yes, Lennon was poor but what did Lamela give us against Chelsea? Was he there just to help us keep the score down?

it's ok bc, i got this.

lamela 92% (48/52)

bossed it.

 

[Time for Heroes]

I'm not sure why all the focus is on Lamela here. Eriksen has chipped in with a few goals recently but I'd say the majority of his performances this season in the league have been equally unconvincing.

Theres the massive difference between the two (5 league goals vs 0)