Match Ratings Ratings vs Chelsea

[dannythomas]

They Got Alli'd, and I'm not sure they Understand.

It was pretty clear that the first half we were tactically out done by Conte, it wasn't that our intentions were bad, or that we were drastically outplayed, we'd had plenty of ball, but Chelsea controlled and channelled us where they wanted us to go, squeezed us and waited for us to cough up the ball and then countered to good effect. The game got congested, our forward's started bumbling into each other, Son was having one of those games where he couldn't control the ball, Alli was fucking around when a more sure foot was needed, Lamela was Lamela and even Eriksen, played in strange role first half, was struggling to conduct.

Throw in that Dier and Dembele were both very poor first half, lethargic and careless with the ball, both getting hassled into playing sloppy passes or passes to people already under pressure, and worse, both making poor decisions without the ball, such as Dier diving in and selling himself a couple of times, allowing Chelsea to maraud forward straight onto outnumbered defenders. They were neither dictating tempo for us, nor preventing Chelsea cutting us open on the counter.

Poch going 4231 (almost 244) against Chelsea's (3421) shape and tactical application, funnelling our AM's centrally, left our fb's exposed and frequently had their WB's always available in acres of space on the counter with Hazard and Willian often free to double up too. In all honesty, we were probably a bit lucky to come in even as Chelsea had several great situations on the counter first half and often last ditch defending saved the day.

I'm really not sure why Poch didn't go with the proper 433 he used in the last game, a format designed to fuck with the 3CB system, which may have also provided our wide areas with more cover on the counter and also dragged Chelsea forwards 10-15 yards, giving our forward players more spaces to work in.

I've not got too many quibbles with Lloris for the goal. I think he has to go for it,* and if he doesn't Morata's header goes in the corner anyway, and I don't think Sanchez could do any more either, it was just endemic of what had been happening, Moses found in acres of space, Davies isolated was a bit slow to close him down maybe, but it's just a cross put into the zone that arrows it's way to their guy.

*Ha, as I type this I am watching MOTD2 and Lloris coming out actually puts Sanchez off, he clearly moves his head I think in reaction to Lloris.*

In the reverse of last year, we then got that crucial goal just before half the, and what a strike. Eriksen had already had a range finder and this time hit an Exocet that just did the keeper all ends up.

After half time Poch switched Lamela and Son, and pulled Eriksen central and got him dropping a little deeper. I honestly don't think we were drastically better second half, and I really don't think the tactical switch of Lamela and Son really helped us loads - but I'll happily listen to those who can explain how and why they think it did - I think getting Eriksen more central and a little deeper helped somewhat, but what made the most difference was two bits of football, that turned the game and it's dynamics on it's head. It would have made more sense to me to swap Son and Alli, have Alli as the focal point, with Lamela and Son as ARM and ALM respectively, still energetically helping to win the ball and protect the FB's, but also cutting in from their favourite sides etc. whilst allowing Erisken that central birth. Other options I mooted at HT were going back to that pure 433, or dropping Dier into a back three and going with a 3cb system.



Dier played one of those raking passes he tries most games, this time getting it spot on, but what converted that great pass into something more was the excellent run and composure then shown by Alli, who on one beautifully poetic movement controlled and deftly dinked past their keeper. It was an absolutely sublime bit of play by Alli. This was followed four minutes later by his second. Eriksen plays a clever little pass round the corner on the right that puts Son clean through, unfortunately Son's bumbling was continuing, and if we can forgive him for not squaring for Alli initially, not knocking it back for Lamela to tap into to an open net was unforgivable, a sin not lost Eriksen who was still admonishing Son for his stupidity after we'd scored. Luckily we got that bit of fortune that the footballing gods had been allocating Chelsea in this fixture for much of the last 20 year, Son's bumbling rolled for us, Alli was on the spot, and again, in contrast to much of the first half, he was cool and composed, deftly dragging and then finishing.

This completely changed the dynamics of what had been a reasonably scrappy tussle. Chelsea now had to abandon any tactical pragmatism, push for goals, and to be honest, they did have some very decent situations, but it just wasn't their day, a combination of excellent defending and their poor execution saw us home.

As ever, Poch's subs baffled me completely and didn't really positively effect the dynamics. Surely at 3-1 up Wanyama could have been introduced much sooner, not Kane chugging around. And I could understand Dier going off at any time in the first hour, but on 80 minutes when we were shelling it ? Strange.

We've played better at their place quite a few times and come away with less, so I'll take it all day long, but this wasn't a slick performance, we were tactically poor for patches of it. Two quick goals second half effectively turned this game on it's head, and if anything I'd chalk this one up to this teams bottle, character more than tactical excellence or collective cohesion. Oh, and Deli Alli.


Lloris - Sorry but he fucked it again. Some good saves before and after.

Trippier/Davies - Tactically I think both were left very exposed at various times in this game and this was not a great game for either of them.

Sanchez - A very good game. There was one moment first half where Hazard was played through and his pace was crucial, no way Alderweireld stays with Hazard in that situation.

Vertonghen - Very good game.

Dier - The great ball for Alli aside, not a great game. Very poor first half, pressed into poor decisions, poor with the ball and without, unable to inject any tempo or play incisively and unable to prevent Chelsea steaming forward and ripping us apart on the counter, selling himself (and his defence) . Second half improved a little but we spent the last 25 minutes of it shelling, which should be his forte, but was eventually dragged off.

Dembele - Much the same as Dier really, and I can't remember a game where Dembele gave the ball away so many times so cheaply. Even toward the end of the game there was a sloppy pass that was so unnecessary that put us under pressure, for all my grumbles about him, that's not one that I usually have. Slow and too risk averse, a bit flat footed without the ball in a fast game sometimes, but never careless. He was generally better in the second half but games like today from him and Dier, really emphasise why we have to start planning for the future and get some more talent in the midfield area.

Lamela - Pretty Lamela like performance, he scrapped for everything, played some Ok football in patches, struggled first half like everyone as Chelsea suffocated the game. Had better games.

Eriksen - Two cracking contributions for goal's one and three, like many others, he's had more involved days, and wasn't helped by Poch's strange tactical application first Half which had him on the left. Still probably ended up our most influential player on the day and pushing for a motm.

Alli - I'm giving him my MOTM today. Overall, probably not as influential on the game as a whole as Eriksen, but he did work hard (even hunting down the ball for the first gaol) and he showed that game intelligence to keep getting into those great positions and his control and finish for that first goal was a sublime piece of skill that turned this game.

Son - This was a real bumbler of a day. Really had to tap it back to Lamela for that third goal, stupidly greedy.

BC, I have watched the match in full again and I can’t unerstand how you can say we didn’t look better in the second half. We controlled almost the entirety of it , though I agree we were a bit sloppy after we got to 3-1.
As for the effect of the second half tactical changes, even though Son didn’t have one of his better games he still kept Alonso honest because he had to focus on his defending against Son’s pace whereas in the first half he had nobody running at him. The 3rd goal was created that way even though admittedly Son could have set up Lamela before the ball finally found its way to Dele. But the panic in the Chelsea defence was first initiated by Son.
Additionally , playing without a real striker created the space for Alli to be in the right place at the right time for both second half goals.
The other thing I disagree with you about is Dier. I am not his biggest fan as a midfielder, I think Wanyama offers more. But Dier was very effective in the second half , limiting the number of times our back 4 was under pressure. And of course he played that killer ball for the second. Who are Chelsea’s most dangerous players ? Hazard and Willian. Did they do anything in the second half ? No and I think Dier and Dembele played a big part in that . Even though Dembele’s distribution wasn’t as good as usual he was still heavily involved in shutting down Chelsea’s midfield. In fact, he did not give the ball away more than twice in the second half , neither time was it in dangerous situations.
Finally , I can’t agree with you that bringing on Kane didn’t make sense. He needed some minutes and I think at 3-1 it was a great time to bring him on. I saw it as the icing on the cake.

 

[Shadydan]

No way Davies should be blamed for their goal, Willian was running inside and he had to cover him.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

Absolutely this.

Fucking mad that anyone thought he was poor. He was so good defensively in the middle of the park and used the ball well throughout. Wanyama is a good 'hunter' in that position, harrying the opposition, but Dier's defensive midfield positioning is sensational and far better than Wanyama's. You can see how high his 'football IQ' is with the positions he takes up and how he knows where to be. It's not the type of thing that shows up on stat sheets or through a cursory watch of the game, but the good judges, including Mauricio Pochettino obviously, get it.

He was much better than Dembele in this one.

Ah, the old "positional" nonsense. Otherwise known as the "Huddlestone Hypothesis".

Like standing around waiting for the ball to arrive is more useful than pro-actively reading and hunting it down, cohesively and catching the opponent before they get parked.

Even if this was the asset you say it is, Dier didn't even do that well yesterday, especially first half where Chelsea continually broke through our midfield and had overloads on our defenders.

But there is so much more to playing the CM2 system than just "positioning", and all those other things Dier just does not excel at. His passing is perfunctory, and gets worse when under pressure, he can't move with the ball at all, can't play under pressure. A couple of times a season when given acres of space he'll hit a nice long ranger, but playing CM is far more about hitting 10 short incisive passes a game than a couple of rangers a year. It's about setting tempo, not reacting to the opponents tempo.

I think anyone who could watch the first half of games like yesterday, or the first half of Liverpool away, or Juve away or even England against Italy,where in all games those teams have run rings round him in phases of the game would be mad to call Dier sensational, it's just utter bias, and when Phil Jones played a similar role for Utd and England I don't remember you or anyone calling it sensational.

And I think when Poch was preferring Wnayama last season we were challenging for a title, and this year with Dier, we're miles away from it and part of the reason is because there is nothing Dier does better than Wanyama, except that long range pass once in a blue moon.

 

[Armstrong_11]

Don't agree with this from a tactical perspective, first half in particular Willian and Hazard were frequently causing us a problem. Nothing spectacular but getting on the ball or taking up positions in pockets of space in the half spaces, leaving our fullbacks a dilemma, and then releasing their wingbacks on the overlap. That had to be part of the remit for our central midfielders, to help out and deny space.

Look at the opening goal for instance. Both Dier and Dembele are in a bit of no mans land. Not pressing but not shutting the space in front of the back four..... Willian sees this space between the lines, makes his run inside into it, Davies follows, it releases Moses... A goal, whatever the circumstances, then comes from it.

And that wasn't the only time, Chelsea worked quick combinations and cut through us numerous times in that first half through these channels and players, in normal play or on the counter attack.

In the second half Dier was stronger though, he started breaking up play and blocked up his channels on our right hand side. The pass for the second goal being the icing on the cake. Dembele was misfiring until the very latter stages though I thought... The one who was holding together our left hand side was arguably Vertonghen doing a man marking job and frequently stepping very high up the pitch to cut out passes into the feet of his marker.

I agree that we were poor in the first half. We didn't play our natural game and kept slowing down the tempo. We wanted the draw... and we were lucky to go into the half level. I always felt we were happy with a draw. Given how bad we perform against them we tired to keep it tight behind.

I actually thot Dembele had a good game. Then again I was having a sandwich in the first half so I might have miss stuff.

From a Chelsea perspective... hazard was woeful cause we didn't give him room. As soon as he got the ball we were on him. Really felt we work hard as a team. Great team performance.

 

[THFCSPURS19]

And I think when Poch was preferring Wnayama last season we were challenging for a title, and this year with Dier, we're miles away from it and part of the reason is because there is nothing Dier does better than Wanyama, except that long range pass once in a blue moon.

The suggestion that we're not challenging for the title this season because Dier is playing instead of Wanyama is utterly ludicrous and complete bullshit.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

BC, I have watched the match in full again and I can’t unerstand how you can say we didn’t look better in the second half. We controlled almost the entirety of it , though I agree we were a bit sloppy after we got to 3-1.
As for the effect of the second half tactical changes, even though Son didn’t have one of his better games he still kept Alonso honest because he had to focus on his defending against Son’s pace whereas in the first half he had nobody running at him. The 3rd goal was created that way even though admittedly Son could have set up Lamela before the ball finally found its way to Dele. But the panic in the Chelsea defence was first initiated by Son.
Additionally , playing without a real striker created the space for Alli to be in the right place at the right time for both second half goals.
The other thing I disagree with you about is Dier. I am not his biggest fan as a midfielder, I think Wanyama offers more. But Dier was very effective in the second half , limiting the number of times our back 4 was under pressure. And of course he played that killer ball for the second. Who are Chelsea’s most dangerous players ? Hazard and Willian. Did they do anything in the second half ? No and I think Dier and Dembele played a big part in that . Even though Dembele’s distribution wasn’t as good as usual he was still heavily involved in shutting down Chelsea’s midfield. In fact, he did not give the ball away more than twice in the second half , neither time was it in dangerous situations.
Finally , I can’t agree with you that bringing on Kane didn’t make sense. He needed some minutes and I think at 3-1 it was a great time to bring him on. I saw it as the icing on the cake.

I don't think we were much better second half than we were the first, but part of that is because I didn't think we were terrible first half. Just tactically out manoeuvred.

I think the game was kind of following similar patterns, just with very subtle differences. I think we were playing 5 yards deeper, possibly as a result of Eriksen moving 5 yards deeper. We'd sured up the flanks bit better, but we were still having the ball and our interplay still wasn't carving them open, and they were still looking a threat on the counter. So maybe things were marginally better, but only marginally IMO. That pattern changed when we got that 2nd goal out of nothing, and then very quickly got a third.

Then we parked a bus and they were the team with the ball. But even then I thought we were sloppy, both in defensive and on the counter we wasted the ball continually.

I disagreed with people in the match thread who said we were terrible first half, but I also disagree with those saying we were great second half. I think two quick goals changed the complexity what had been a scrappy, slightly disjointed game in which neither team ever had full control of it. Neither manager quite succeeded with their chosen - different - tactical approaches.

 

[Bus-Conductor]

The suggestion that we're not challenging for the title this season because Dier is playing instead of Wanyama is utterly ludicrous and complete bullshit.

I think our midfield is a major factor in why we are not better than what we are right now. It is the weakest part of our team.

 

[Shadydan]

I think our midfield is a major factor in why we are not better than what we are right now. It is the weakest part of our team.

Weaker then our full backs?

 

[Bus-Conductor]

Weaker then our full backs?

Definitely. ManU haven't even got full backs, City only have played with one all season, and he isn't as productive in the final third as either of ours, Liverpool have a kid at RB and Chelsea have Moses.

I don't think our full backs are top quality, but then I don't think anyone's are in the PL right now and in general top quality fb's are the rarest breed of all.


I think there are massive question marks over most of our current CM options, Dier (massively limited), Dembele (inconsistent and unreliable fitness, slow), Winks (poor without the ball), Sissoko (Sissoko), Onomah (never been integrated into CM).

I think Wanyama is a very good 6. But the rest of our Cm needs are lacking severely.

 

[SEANSPURS1975]

Eriksen and Sanchez were quality, but has to be Dele Alli for that moment of absolute magic.
There aren't many players in world football who could’ve scored that goal. I'd say our goal of the season so far.
World class.

 

[SlotBadger]

Credit to everyone, but thought I would special mention Lamela, guy was a absolute warrior today, please don't leave in the summer

Nothing like receiving a dislike for a post which is 100% positive, inoffensive and completely based on opinion.

Quelle surprise at the culprit.

 

[Univarn]

Eriksen my man of the match. His shift centrally allowed him to dictate and us to control and focus our attacks so much better. Also let Lamela, Son, and Dele trade off striker roles.

Davies had a really weird game yesterday. Felt lile they targeted him as Dele and Eriksen were poor at tracking back. Also felt like he was hyper convenience of Willian and got pulled on a couple of runs. Trippier had more help from Lamela and Sanchez covering Hazard but we let Alonso be free on several occassions. Overall though I loved our defending. Controlled chaos which let us transition and control when we needed to. Also major shout out to Dier for that pass and I feel like controlling the midfield well.

 

[Big Jeff]

Fabregas is a liability these days.. I get quite excited to see his name on their team sheet as the game more than not passes him by.

He's a little Spanish bitch. Whenever I see him, that name springs to mind.

.

 

[thinktank]

Development in character from Eriksen this season has been amazing.

Having a go at sonny for not laying it off simple was a joy to see.

Cussed him out a few times since he's been here for being a wuss and some of his decision making, but he's properly arrived this season, for me.

Couldn't be happier for him as he's finally the player he should be.

 

[Jospur]

Eriksen's goal came at just the right time. Scoring just before half time creates negativity in the team on the receiving end - especially in the dressing room where it can tend to fester. And Spurs must have gone into the dressing room at half time believing all was possible - as it was. And what a strike it was!

Dele Alli's goal was pure magic. That pass from Dier and the simple way Alli finished off that move. My goal off the season so far. Incredible.

But my man of the match must go to Sanchez. His game wasn't perfect by any means - but he seemed to be always in a position to snuff out danger. Time and again he was where he should have been - either heading the ball away from goal or marshalling Chelsea attackers away from scoring positions. A terrific game - and particularly gratifying to know that he's only 21 years-old. The scouting department has much to be proud of.

 

[Lighty64]

Lamela... purely for what he did to Febregas, again

to be honest Lamela lost marks for what he did to Fabregas. if he had done his job properly Fabregas wouldn't be playing football ever again

 

[fortworthspur]

I think our midfield is a major factor in why we are not better than what we are right now. It is the weakest part of our team.

meh, the defense is the biggest change. we've already conceded as many goal as we did all last season. thats what happens when you lose 3 of the 4 players that anchored your back line.

 

[whitesocks]

...
Look at the opening goal for instance. Both Dier and Dembele are in a bit of no mans land. Not pressing but not shutting the space in front of the back four..... Willian sees this space between the lines, makes his run inside into it, Davies follows, it releases Moses... A goal, whatever the circumstances, then comes from it.
...

If we are looking to find fault with their goal, Lloris aside, then Rudiger, their CB, was allowed to charge into our half and none of our 4 attacking players pressed him properly or chased back. And that gave him plenty of time and space to play a lovely ball wide as they broke forward.

 

[Shadydan]

Definitely. ManU haven't even got full backs, City only have played with one all season, and he isn't as productive in the final third as either of ours, Liverpool have a kid at RB and Chelsea have Moses.

View attachment 37127

I don't think our full backs are top quality, but then I don't think anyone's are in the PL right now and in general top quality fb's are the rarest breed of all.


I think there are massive question marks over most of our current CM options, Dier (massively limited), Dembele (inconsistent and unreliable fitness, slow), Winks (poor without the ball), Sissoko (Sissoko), Onomah (never been integrated into CM).

I think Wanyama is a very good 6. But the rest of our Cm needs are lacking severely.

You say that but we probably have the 2nd best midfield in the league, if you compare it like you have with our full backs then you can probably make the same argument.

They're not going to be City but then again they have set the bar very high in all positions but despite you having a different ideology of what you want in a midfielder you can't argue with facts and that those members of that midfield has helped carried us to where we are now under Poch.

 

[1882andallthat]

Eriksen was brilliant, but this was Alli's day, scoring 2 to shut up southgate.
All were good, but Davies looked a bit jet lagged.
It goes to show how far Rose has fallen, that he wasn't even brought on as a late sub.
And Alderweireld too, not even on the bench.

Southgate and the media did us a huge favour even if neither of them didn't mean to.