Ratings vs Dortmund

Discussion in 'Spurs Chat' started by Bulletspur, Nov 21, 2017.

MOTM

  1. Lloris

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  2. Sanchez

    58 vote(s)
    21.2%
  3. Dier

    61 vote(s)
    22.3%
  4. Verts

    1 vote(s)
    0.4%
  5. Aurier

    5 vote(s)
    1.8%
  6. Rose

    19 vote(s)
    7.0%
  7. Winks

    101 vote(s)
    37.0%
  8. Eriksen

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  9. Dele

    13 vote(s)
    4.8%
  10. Son

    9 vote(s)
    3.3%
  11. Kane

    1 vote(s)
    0.4%
  12. Dembele

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  13. Sissoko

    1 vote(s)
    0.4%
  14. Llorente

    2 vote(s)
    0.7%
  15. Poch

    2 vote(s)
    0.7%
  1. WiganSpur

    WiganSpur Well-Known Member

    Messages:
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    Lloris 6 - Some good some poor
    Dier 8- Very good, marshalled the defence well, MOM
    Sanchez 8- Top class again
    Verts 7- OK
    Aurier 6.5- Fine overall, don't understand the fuss about his performance
    Rose 7.5- Got better as the game went on
    Winks 7- Decent game
    Alli 7- Decent second half
    Eriksen 6.5- OK
    Kane 7- Good goal, didn't do a great deal else
    Son 7.5- Looked a danger throughout

    Llorente 2- Worse than Soldado
     
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  2. allpaths

    allpaths Well-Known Member

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    imagine not rating dele's performance tonight :facepalm:
     
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  3. buttons

    buttons Well-Known Member

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    9s - Winks, Dier, Sanchez, Rose
    8s - Aurier, Dele, Son
    7s - Hugo, Jan, eriksen, Kane
    6s - Moussa’s
    4s - Nando (sorry)

    Winks shades MoM but special mention to Sanchez who looked a different player from the one who played v Dortmund at Wembley, impressive.
     
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  4. cliff jones

    cliff jones Well-Known Member

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    Dembele didn't move the ball quick enough and Sissoko again showed a lack of basic technique, but apart from that

    What a great win to cheer us all up after the disappointment of Saturday...

    Verts and Lloris disappointing for the goal, and the other two cbs gave PEA another glorious first half change which took a tiny bit of shine off their performances

    Rose good, Aurier did well too

    We look more dangerous with Son in the team

    But mom is Winksy, for always showing and never hiding, recycled it so well taking the pressure off the whole team whenever they began to build up the pressure

    Should we excuse them another pedestrian start on Saturday..? This will have taken yet more out of tired legs, with Eriksen and Kane still looking shagged
     
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  5. Japhet

    Japhet Well-Known Member

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    Winks MOM. Showed exactly why he should have played v the Arse.
     
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  6. thinktank

    thinktank Hmmm...

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    Second half was much more cohesive.

    Poch got them in at halftime and organised their heads more; they came out with a much more defined 532 and we performed better for it, as a team.
     
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  7. Paolo10

    Paolo10 Well-Known Member

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    Dier shading MoTM from Winks IMO in what was a good team performance that showed a lot of bottle after the NLD. Thought Dier made great decisions defensively and had his best game in ages and was a threat at the other end too. If he plays like that we'll not miss Toby too much during a critical time, I think Dier is a little unappreciated in some circles. Class today.

    Winks is a fantastic footballer, no doubt about it. I can hardly remember him being tackled/giving the ball away in a Spurs shirt. His potential is crazy, although personally I'd like to see him get forward more and almost take a few more risks with his passing!
     
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  8. Bus-Conductor

    Bus-Conductor SC Supporter

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    Football Funk

    Well that was a a real oddity of a game. We were pretty atrocious - by our standards - first half and Dortmund paid back the compliment second half.

    First half it was the Arsenal game all over again. We we neither sitting in, condensing, funnelling and countering, but nor were were being aggressive and progressive. They weren't pressing well individually or cohesively as a group. First 45, Kane, Son, Alli were just sauntering around, this allowed Dortmund's defenders to easily play through to their midfielders where the not exactly tenacious Eriksen and not yet brilliant defensively/positionally Winks were left chasing shadows as their CM's played balls through to their forward areas and exposed our CB's. And the FB's were often too quick to bomb ahead of the play too, meaning Winks and Eriksen often didn't have them as an outlet.

    It was literally shithog day from the weekend all over again, with exactly the same result, eventually their CM in acres of space fed Yarmalenko, who with a genius back flick played Aubamayang clean through. And once again Lloris was really weak, instead of charging out to narrow the angle, for some inexplicable reason, he actually steps back toward his line, bends over and pulls his own shorts down.

    It was a another really poor half of football. Tactically inept, and if Dortmund were in any kind of form they'd have come in more than one goal to the good.

    Luckily, Dortmund seem to be in the kind of football funk that we were in this time last year, and decided to switch from being tactically pretty decent to tactically abject. I know we got the early goal, but it's just not normally in any Dortmund side to be as passively inept as this one was second half. They just mirrored our first half failing completely. The didn't go at us, press the bollocks off us and try to force the game, and they didn't sit back and try to counter us, they just ambled around going through motions like zombies. And like Dortmund first half, we only barely managed to take advantage enough to win, missing a few chances to really hurt them.

    As I said above, I do think Poch has got to work on what Winks does without the ball, he's got to be positionally smarter and defensively more agressive, but with the ball he's a breath of fresh air after what's gone before, second half he got hold of the game more, metronomically showing and pinging the ball about, and was once again, vying for a MOTM gong.

    The midfield three were all much better without the ball second half, distinctly showing more cohesion without the ball, getting themselves in shape, and relating that shape to each other, then pressing as a unit better. Poch had clearly stuck a Vamoos up their collective arses at half time. And it was improved pressing that led to the equaliser, as Rose strips the ball from their defender and two tap tap passes later and Kane's fired one in.

    Before the international break I thought Alli was starting to hit a bit of form, less fucking around, looking sharper again, but the last two games he's been pretty atrocious. Tonight he stuck at it, and second half he was more involved, playing a hand in both goals, but there was still so much bumbling and fuckery. First half he was lucky to be left on the pitch. It's not just the usual fuckery, even productively he's just not at the races right now. There were two great examples where it was really easy to play Son in. The first around the 61 min mark the defender errs and gives Alli the ball, al he has to do is play it first time, or quickly and Son's in absolutely acres and acres of space straight down the middle and instead he fucks about and the moments gone and Son has run offside. then around 69 minutes he can play Son through again and he just massively over hits a really simple pass. Even the second assist, he gets a couple of really fortunate bobbles before he ends up toeing it to Son. It just kind of sums up what's going on right now with Alli. The positive thing is that his head didn't go down, he kept working and his perseverance eventually reaped rewards.

    Even more worrying is the state of Kane's last couple of performances, he didn't even improve much second half, I don't know if he's not fit or what but he's been really poor with and without the ball the last two games.

    This was a decent second 45 minutes, we did improve, but I thought Dortmund were unbelievably bad second half. Maybe Wembley had scarred them, at that time they were going great guns domestically as well, and maybe they'd been instructed not to go balls out for fear of the counter spanking we'd given them (and RM) last time out. But still, once they were losing you'd think they'd throw the kitchen sink at us, instead they went out with a wimper.

    Individual

    Lloris - Terrible keeping for the goal. Really fucking terrible.

    Aurier - OK. Got up and down, didn't really produce much of offensive quality.

    Dier/Sanchez/Vertonghen - Apart from some poor long balls Dier attempted, they were all pretty good. Exposed a bit first half, as per at Arsenal, largely because we weren't defending as a team ahead of them, but they coped and having three CB's who can play football too is such luxury and makes us hard to contain, as we can play a pass out from anywhere.

    Rose - OK. Got up and down, didn't really produce much of offensive quality. Cross for Eriksen maybe?

    Eriksen - Poor first half, as our lack of application generally didn't get him into he game or onto the ball in the right areas/situations and he was left doing his bad impression of a busy ****. Second half we got our shit together, and he was more involved, played a lovely first time through ball for Kane.

    Winks - As I said, Poch needs to teach the kid some positional discipline and defensive awareness, and I’d like him to be a little more tenacious without the ball, but with the ball he's bringing something we've not had since Modric was around, a tick tick tick.

    Alli - It was a really poor first 45, and to be honest plenty of the second 45 was less than great, but he was better second half, more disciplined and more involved, and had a hand in both goals.

    Son - The typical Son mixed bag, some tomfuckery, some ok stuff, and a wonderful finish.

    Kane - The worst he's played since Saturday. Not sure if carrying a knock or what, if he is then rest him, play Son up top and lets get the real Kane back. Not fuck him completely.
     
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2017
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  9. dannythomas

    dannythomas Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    3,226
    Ratings Received:
    +1,718 / 154 / -42
    Main take aways :

    Congrats to Poch on going for it with our strongest available line up. It would have been a soft option to have rested key players on the basis that we would have a better chance of winning our final group match. With that line up it was win or nothing because in terms of topping the group a draw would have been the same as a defeat. It could have backfired and many on here would have slated him for not saving tired legs. Poch is a proud man and that Arse defeat will have hurt him. So I suspect did our slightly uneven first half performance tonight , further evidence of a tongue lashing being our delayed arrival on the pitch after half time. Though we improved markedly immediately after we went behind.

    On the evidence of tonight, I would say that Kane and Alli were not playing while injured on Saturday , they were just playing badly like the rest of the team. They both looked energetic enough tonight.

    I said in the Arsenal ratings thread that with Wanyama and Toby out that both Winks and Son should have started . They both made a big difference tonight. Dembele reverted to doing what he does best given his current level of fitness / performance - coming in to help close out a match when we are ahead. Sissoko did what he does best too...

    Good to see Rose looking close to his best, got better as the match went on.

    It wasn’t a great performance but it was a really good one from the time we went behind . We were unlucky not to equalize before half time.

    Lloris 7 I didn’t see him as to blame for their goal. He was left exposed. Much better distribution

    Dier, Sanchez, Vertonghen 8 All very good

    Aurier 7 good game

    Winks 8.5 outstanding, gets better with every game. Bad decision to leave him out on Saturday.

    Eriksen 7 generally good, didn’t start too well. Got better.

    Rose 8 very good game, big plus for the rest of the season

    Dele 6.5 first half was more showboating and throwing himself to the ground. None of that in the second , just doing the simple things well and providing 2 assists. 5 rating first half, 8 second half.

    Son 8 .5 live wire performance, great goal . We look so much more potent up front with him next to Kane. Runs at defenders, doesn’t hide away and was another big miss against Arsenal. I think he’s our most underrated player.

    Kane 7 Up and down game , well taken goal.

    Dembele 7.5 did his job .
     
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  10. Gaz_Gammon

    Gaz_Gammon Well-Known Member

    Messages:
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    Very good all around performance, and if i were to pick one player out (not only for this game) but Sanchez was my man of the match. I can see him developing into a better player than either Toby or Jan. For a player so young he is by far the buy of the season by a country mile.
     
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  11. Flashspur

    Flashspur Well-Known Member

    Messages:
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    Dier and Sanchez my picks for MOTM followed closely by Winks. I thought Eric just steals it. He is starting to show why Poch thinks he will be a world class CB one day. Sanchez is all class. This lad is going to be the dogs balls. No doubt.

    Nice game in MF from the lad Winks but he needs to be a little more aggressive when we lose the ball. There is a tendency to ball watch. However when he has possession he plays with his head up and has a great range of passing. I was also impressed with Aurier who has settled down and is not charging in unless absolutely necessary. A nice performance from Rose as well who put himself about a bit. A mature performance coming off the back of a sluggish NLD game where we just weren't at the races.

    I expect that Kane, Ericksen and Alli should get over the legginess and get back to match fitness. None of them looks sharp right now although Kane's goal was typically what a world class striker does. Give him a sniff and a couple of inches of space and its all over red rover. Son's inclusion gave us pace that we've been missing. A nicely taken goal from him after great work by Dele.

    An understated performance but nevertheless what was required to qualify top of the group. Wonder who we draw in the next around...but I am getting ahead of myself.
     
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  12. elDiablo

    elDiablo SC Supporter

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    It was tough to call as so many strong performances but I went Rose. I loved the kung fu style block he put in.

    Good to see sanchez back in the middle too. Not sure why he was moved against arsenal but the defence has a better balance with dier right and sanchez in the middle.
     
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  13. The Apprentice

    The Apprentice Charles Big Potatoes

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    I guess Sanchez switched Saturday to counter Sanchez cutting in off the left flank.
     
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  14. Led's Zeppelin

    Led's Zeppelin Flaccid Member

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    That’s way too negative a report.

    Dortmund, though struggling for form, are a team full of exceptionally talented players. After conceding the goal, Spurs took control of the game and were superior in every department.

    For a young team coming from the dispiriting result of the weekend, with three key players re-establishing themselves in the team after injury, to come back from a goal down and win at one of the most intimidating stadiums in Europe against a highly skillful team battling for its pride, that Champions League performance deserves far more praise and recognition. In my opinion.
     
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  15. spursram

    spursram Well-Known Member

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    Didn't see all the match, but pleased to see 3 of our youngest players in top 3 of MOM ratings. Always good when a youngster gets more percentage points than his age!
     
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  16. JimmyG2

    JimmyG2 SC Supporter

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    I don't think that Dele is going to change much.
    and in many ways I don't want him to.
    He will refine his game as he matures
    but will remain cheeky to the point of insolence
    and confident to the point of arrogance.
    I love the boy
    and he brings to Spurs what few can bring
    along with a lot of baggage.
    If Spurs can't absorb such a maverick who can.
    Two assists among the nonsense last night.
    Exhilarating and tedious simultaneously.

    Sorry BC
     
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  17. SpursDave88

    SpursDave88 Well-Known Member

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    Disagree completely, we pretty much controlled the game from first to last and Dortmund rarely had a sniff, we actually created more good changes than them in the first half and our dominance told in the second. Our general play was neat and tidy in the first half and a brief moment of brilliance allowed them to score.
     
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  18. BringBack_leGin

    BringBack_leGin I BELIEVE

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    @Bus-Conductor little harsh today, I’ll concede that off the ball we are still too open (neither Dier nor Wanyama being in midfield being the primary cause imo), I think on the ball we were fine if not spectacular. We created far more by way of dangerous opportunity in both halves, Son alone could’ve had a hatrick, while the home team only really had the two Aubameyang chances, one of which he scored. It wasn’t scintillating but it was good enough to beat 8/10 opponents imo.
     
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  19. mpickard2087

    mpickard2087 Fantastic Member

    Messages:
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    The match had two parts, the opening half hour and then the rest of the game. In the first 30 mins we were timid in much of what we did, with the ball we lacked any ideas or tempo, without it we were pretty lazy and unorganised, and had to weather a fair amount of pressure. Dortmund did score in all fairness a nice goal from a slick move but we aided it somewhat (more on that later), however that proved to be the turning point in the match.

    Almost straightaway we got a response, from then until the halftime whistle we managed to work a bit more of the ball forward and create a couple of opportunities that required decent saves from their keeper. The second half carried on in the same fashion, us trying to probe away and enjoying more of the ball. At no point did we look at our best, nor play at a blistering tempo, but it was a fairly decent performance for an Away European tie and a good response to going a goal down when, having already qualified remember, we could have let our heads drop. Eventually we took advantage of that whiff of fragility about Dortmund, managed to eek out a couple of nice strikes to turn the game around and ensure we finish top. Happy days, and in the end a decent night's work.

    As for individual performances, bit of contrast in my opinion. I thought all of our defenders put in solid performances and stood up well, but weren't helped, especially in that opening salvo, by what was going on ahead of them. I don't think the 5-3-2 shape was compact or organised enough to help our press - two strikers not doing enough, and then our midfield three were, all game, all over the place without the ball and getting dragged about. Alli and Eriksen were often not diligent enough dropping in and covering across, whilst Winks, though to be fair often left over-run, often resorted to chasing the ball wildly and getting the runaround. The goal conceded for example they just stroll through our badly organised midfield, and it's not one I think will work too often if we're not consciously sitting very deep and compact. When we eventually got hold of some ball we looked much the better for it.

    Lloris - I think the goal gets scored anyway in all truth, but at least try and narrow the angle.

    Dier - Some really poor passing, but mostly defended resolutely when called upon.

    Sanchez - Very solid.

    Vertonghen - Caught out a few times with a ball in behind, and must sometimes look at where his other defenders are and stay in line with them rather than pushing out, but apart from that had a decent game and defended well.

    Aurier - A couple of wild challenges, but defended solidly, and though he didn't do anything outstanding he got up and down the flank all game as an outlet.

    Rose - Looked rusty in the first half, improved greatly to have a good second half up and down the left flank.

    Winks - Not great off the ball, with it did his thing pretty well.

    Eriksen - Not great off the ball, had a decent spell second half with the ball - and almost pulled off the most outrageous through ball for Kane.

    Alli - Not great off the ball, woke up a bit second half though and put himself about a bit more and a bit more doggedness to his game - which is largely how he bagged two assists.

    Son - Usual Son game. Some frustratingly bad play, some lively decent touches, and thankfully one of his calm, exquisite finishes that won the game.

    Kane - Nowhere near as bad as at the weekend but still looking a bit subdued. Thankfully got the run of the ball and hit a great strike to get us back in the game.

    Subs:
    Dembele - Did ok.
    Sissoko - Ditto.
    Llorente - Classic scenario where a striker low on form, rhythm, and confidence just makes things look worse. If it's going well you don't take a touch hoping it becomes an even better chance, you just hit it first time across the keeper and see the net ripple. Desperately could have done with it though...
     
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  20. degoose

    degoose Well-Known Member

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    It was Aurier at fault as he let Aube stay on side. Lloris did not have much of a chance and the striker had a huge amount of goal to go for as nobody was near him to put him off and cut his choices down.
     
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