Match Ratings Ratings vs Juventus

MOTM

  • Lloris

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Trippier

    Votes: 2 0.8%
  • Sanchez

    Votes: 14 5.6%
  • Verts

    Votes: 2 0.8%
  • Davies

    Votes: 3 1.2%
  • Dier

    Votes: 1 0.4%
  • Dembele

    Votes: 15 6.0%
  • Son

    Votes: 173 69.8%
  • Eriksen

    Votes: 22 8.9%
  • Dele

    Votes: 6 2.4%
  • Kane

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Lamela

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Llorente

    Votes: 2 0.8%
  • Poch

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Undecided

    Votes: 4 1.6%
  • None Deserved

    Votes: 4 1.6%

  • Total voters
    248

Derp

Active Member
Joined
Dec 4, 2014
Messages
225
The moment they equalised Poch should have taken off dele for wanyama and gone 3-5-2 dier dropping. We lost the game in an instance
We should have made our subs earlier than that. Why wait until the damage had been done. 1-0 up, get fresh legs on and let Juventus come to us. We are good at keeping possession. We could even just have made a one to one swap and taken out our two worst players and passers in Dier and Davies and put on Wanyama and Rose. We didn’t even have to change formation if Poch was concerned it would rattle us. Sometimes it helps to just sub the players that are most tired and is the worst on the pitch.
 

EastLondonYid

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 26, 2010
Messages
5,434
We should have made our subs earlier than that. Why wait until the damage had been done. 1-0 up, get fresh legs on and let Juventus come to us. We are good at keeping possession. We could even just have made a one to one swap and taken out our two worst players and passers in Dier and Davies and put on Wanyama and Rose. We didn’t even have to change formation if Poch was concerned it would rattle us. Sometimes it helps to just sub the players that are most tired and is the worst on the pitch.

Davies worse passer? sorry don't agree....but i do agree Poch should have reacted.

If we had stuck away the chances we created Juve would have been blown away....this was a game we threw away.

Hopefully we and Poch will learn from this and hopefully we will go on and still have a great season...coys.

.
 

Phomesy

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 20, 2013
Messages
3,991
Still gutted.

I think people are being harsh on Poch. It was absolutely the right thing to do to go for the second goal in the second half. We employed our press early doors but 2 things happened to conspire against us:

1) They started fouling us. Hard. Deliberate yellows that hurt.

2) The Ref started giving them very soft fouls. Whistling up at least three times when we had turned the ball over with our high press and were streaming towards goal.

So a whole lot of effort for nothing but bruised ankles and a couple of yellow cards for them. Then came the sucker punch just at that point we were deflated.

Credit to us for getting our heads up and not just getting back on top but for creating good chances, getting in behind them, despite their wall. Desperately unlucky not to get that goal .Them's the breaks.
 

Bus-Conductor

SC Supporter
Joined
Oct 19, 2004
Messages
39,837
That was a bit of **** wasn't it.

I know it will be very tempting to look at that crazy 5 minutes as some isolated piece of football fate doing it's thing and kicking you in the nuts, but the truth is, there were several moments like that in the first game, not least in that opening 20 minutes, but later on too, even when we were dominating, with Higuain missing a penalty and a couple of other great chances.

You could also look at the goals and say "hey ho" just football. But the killer second goal was actually good old fashioned schoolboy failure to press properly and protect a defence that plays a high line. They were allowed to pass the ball from the CB to the striker, Sanchez has to come out and one more pass and the high line is sprung. And then, not for the first time, Lloris does his fucking idiotic "I'm going to try and lull him into a false sense of security by not actually closing him down at all and giving him the whole goal to aim at" thing.

There are plenty of good things to take from the tie overall, but I don't think it's a complete "suck each other off fest". Not for the first time, we shot ourselves right up the arse in the first 20 minutes of the first leg. Not starting games right has caught us out quite a few times. And also not for the first time did we fail to turn numerous quality attacking situations into enough quality chances throughout the second game. The bottom line is, they probably had more quality chances throughout the two legs than we did.

I think we needed to be cuter second half. They now needed two goals, and the smart thing to do would have been to be a little bit more pragmatic second half, sit a bit deeper, try to knock the ball around from back to side and counter more. Instead we tried to continue the way we'd played first half, but we just couldn't keep it up, the front four started to flag, particularly Alli, who is a bit lethargic in his application on both goals, and Juve pounced.

I also don't really understand why, just before they scored the first Poch seemed to switch us to a 442 with Son going up with Kane. And then why later on he pulled Son over to the right and put Lamela left, placing both where they are least effective.

Poch switched us to 442 just before they scored, from wide, and at the time I thought it seemed to contribute, but watching the sequence back, they scored 3 minutes after the subs I think, so I’m not sure if Poch was reacting or just shifting incidentally, and I’m not sure he had much time to react to their changes, within 5 minutes they’d scored twice.

We did give one of Europe's stronger sides a damn good game, and played two excellent halves of football over the two legs.

But omnipresent failings ultimately let us down, attacking wastage, a phase of very sloppy pressing from the forward area and If it wasn’t for Eriksen, virtually no creative inspiration would emanate from our midfield area at all.

Individual

Lloris - no idea what he’s doing for the second goal, it’s as bad as the Salah first goal at Anfield. Terrible keeping

Trippier - Set up the goal and was really good for the most part.

Sanchez - Good game overall

Vertonghen- First half was probably worst 45 minutes I’ve seen him have this season. Ok after that.

Davies - decent enough but got left exposed for their first goal.

Dier - I really don’t how many games like this he’s got to have before Poch réalisés that just being robust isn’t quite enough at this level. And when the team really needed it, he didn’t actually offer much protection for the defence, which, as a player who brings almost nothing in an offensive sense, you would hope would be the pay off.

Dembele - Played ok in patches, needed oxygen from about 60 minutes.

Eriksen - Very good game, the creative instigator of most that was good.

Alli - I thought he was really good for the first 45 minutes, but started to flag second half and was a major factor in our press fading.

Son - Came out like a samelar hound, and was really lively and caused them problems, but needed to be just that little bit more composed at crucial times.

Kane - I thought his hold up play and press leading was superb first half and he gave one of football’s best defensive unit a really tough time, but he’s going through one of those spells where his finishing is not quite tip top. As with others, started to get a bit more ragged second half.

Poch - For a 150 or so minutes of this tie we got the ying of Poch, the brave new world we now live in. But for 30 we got the yang, the naivety, that comes attached. You can get away with being brave against the driftwood of the PL, but against the blue bloods, you need to be smart too. I thought after Real Madrid he’d sussed this. We were well ahead on points, needed to just keep them at arms length, keep jabbing, instead we kept swinging and left ourselves wide open to the sucker punch.
 
Last edited:

Nebby

Active Member
Joined
Dec 27, 2013
Messages
984
But! You can also perhaps argue that the best form of defence is to attack and keep hitting them in their own half.
I honestly believe this is what Poch was trying to do - and for the most part it worked.
To sit back and try to counter against a team like Juve could've been suicide.
Either way it was always going to be a tough call for Poch.
Ultimately he has tried to play to our strengths - to what feels natural to our team which is to continue to attack and create chances.

I guess we live and learn and can only get stronger from this experience.
I'm certainly not going to berate anyone because Juve honestly never looked like scoring and the best team lost.
Agreed. It was a tough call. I guess he had more faith in us playing on the front foot and scoring another, rather than sitting back and seeing out the inevitable pressure. But all of that said... Allegri had no choice but to make a change and was counting on Poch sticking with what he had. Any change made by Poch, maybe just in terms of system, might have given Allegri something else to think about. I don't know; it's all if, buts and maybes.
 

matthew.absurdum

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 31, 2012
Messages
2,656
That was a bit of **** wasn't it.

I know it will be very tempting to look at that crazy 5 minutes as some isolated piece of football fate doing it's thing and kicking you in the nuts, but the truth is, there were several moments like that in the first game, not least in that opening 20 minutes, but later on too, even when we were dominating, with Higuain missing a penalty and a couple of other great chances.

You could also look at the goals and say "hey ho" just football. But the killer second goal was actually good old fashioned schoolboy failure to press properly and protect a defence that plays a high line. They were allowed to pass the ball from the CB to the striker, Sanchez has to come out and one more pass and the high line is sprung. And then, not for the first time, Lloris does his fucking idiotic "I'm going to try and lull him into a false sense of security by not actually closing him down at all and giving him the whole goal to aim at" thing.

There are plenty of good things to take from the tie overall, but I don't think it's a complete "suck each other off fest". Not for the first time, we shot ourselves right up the arse in the first 20 minutes of the first leg. Not starting games right has caught us out quite a few times. And also not for the first time did we fail to turn numerous quality attacking situations into enough quality chances throughout the second game. The bottom line is, they probably had more quality chances throughout the two legs than we did.

I think we needed to be cuter second half. They now needed two goals, and the smart thing to do would have been to be a little bit more pragmatic second half, sit a bit deeper, try to knock the ball around from back to side and counter more. Instead we tried to continue the way we'd played first half, but we just couldn't keep it up, the front four started to flag, particularly Alli, who is a bit lethargic in his application on both goals, and Juve pounced.

I also don't really understand why, just before they scored the first Poch seemed to switch us to a 442 with Son going up with Kane. And then why later on he pulled Son over to the right and put Lamela left, placing both where they are least effective.

Poch switched us to 442 just before they scored, from wide, and at the time I thought it seemed to contribute, but watching the sequence back, they scored 3 minutes after the subs I think, so I’m not sure if Poch was reacting or just shifting incidentally, and I’m not sure he had much time to react to their changes, within 5 minutes they’d scored twice.

We did give one of Europe's stronger sides a damn good game, and played two excellent halves of football over the two legs.

But omnipresent failings ultimately let us down, attacking wastage, a phase of very sloppy pressing from the forward area and If it wasn’t for Eriksen, virtually no creative inspiration would emanate from our midfield area at all.

Individual

Lloris - no idea what he’s doing for the second goal, it’s as bad as the Salah first goal at Anfield. Terrible keeping

Trippier - Set up the goal and was really good for the most part.

Sanchez - Good game overall

Vertonghen- First half was probably worst 45 minutes I’ve seen him have this season. Ok after that.

Davies - decent enough but got left exposed for their first goal.

Dier - I really don’t how many games like this he’s got to have before Poch réalisés that just being robust isn’t quite enough at this level. And when the team really needed it, he didn’t actually offer much protection for the defence, which, as a player who brings almost nothing in an offensive sense, you would hope would be the pay off.

Dembele - Played ok in patches, needed oxygen from about 60 minutes.

Eriksen - Very good game, the creative instigator of most that was good.

Alli - I thought he was really good for the first 45 minutes, but started to flag second half and was a major factor in our press fading.

Son - Came out like a samelar hound, and was really lively and caused them problems, but needed to be just that little bit more composed at crucial times.

Kane - I thought his hold up play and press leading was superb first half and he gave one of football’s best defensive unit a really tough time, but he’s going through one of those spells where his finishing is not quite tip top. As with others, started to get a bit more ragged second half.

Poch - For a 150 or so minutes of this game we got the ying of Poch, the brave new world we now live in. But for 30 we got the yang, the naivety, that comes attached. You can get away with being brave against the driftwood of the PL, but against the blue bloods, you need to be smart too. I thought after Real Madrid he’d sussed this. We were well ahead on points, needed to just keep them at arms length, keep jabbing, instead we kept swinging and left ourselves wide open to the sucker punch.
Best report for a long time, BC. Really spot on.

On the 442 switch, i guess it is because 442 is a "counter-attack" formation nowadays, and it provides a bit of width protection in defence (at least in theory) than 4231. It would be very hard to switch to a back three during the match. It could work, but it is difficult. Maybe the 442 is a tactical move against Juve's two wing backs subs. But it turns out that you will need Lamela for you to cover the wing (or even Wanyama), not (a tired) dele or eriksen
 

0-Tibsy-0

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 13, 2012
Messages
6,901
I'm surprised that Son is winning this by a stretch. Was great at the start of the game, perhaps should have put us 2 - 0 up, but was quite poor in the second half in my opinion...
 

Donki

Has a Massive Member Member
Joined
May 14, 2007
Messages
9,505
That was a bit of **** wasn't it.

I know it will be very tempting to look at that crazy 5 minutes as some isolated piece of football fate doing it's thing and kicking you in the nuts, but the truth is, there were several moments like that in the first game, not least in that opening 20 minutes, but later on too, even when we were dominating, with Higuain missing a penalty and a couple of other great chances.

You could also look at the goals and say "hey ho" just football. But the killer second goal was actually good old fashioned schoolboy failure to press properly and protect a defence that plays a high line. They were allowed to pass the ball from the CB to the striker, Sanchez has to come out and one more pass and the high line is sprung. And then, not for the first time, Lloris does his fucking idiotic "I'm going to try and lull him into a false sense of security by not actually closing him down at all and giving him the whole goal to aim at" thing.

There are plenty of good things to take from the tie overall, but I don't think it's a complete "suck each other off fest". Not for the first time, we shot ourselves right up the arse in the first 20 minutes of the first leg. Not starting games right has caught us out quite a few times. And also not for the first time did we fail to turn numerous quality attacking situations into enough quality chances throughout the second game. The bottom line is, they probably had more quality chances throughout the two legs than we did.

I think we needed to be cuter second half. They now needed two goals, and the smart thing to do would have been to be a little bit more pragmatic second half, sit a bit deeper, try to knock the ball around from back to side and counter more. Instead we tried to continue the way we'd played first half, but we just couldn't keep it up, the front four started to flag, particularly Alli, who is a bit lethargic in his application on both goals, and Juve pounced.

I also don't really understand why, just before they scored the first Poch seemed to switch us to a 442 with Son going up with Kane. And then why later on he pulled Son over to the right and put Lamela left, placing both where they are least effective.

Poch switched us to 442 just before they scored, from wide, and at the time I thought it seemed to contribute, but watching the sequence back, they scored 3 minutes after the subs I think, so I’m not sure if Poch was reacting or just shifting incidentally, and I’m not sure he had much time to react to their changes, within 5 minutes they’d scored twice.

We did give one of Europe's stronger sides a damn good game, and played two excellent halves of football over the two legs.

But omnipresent failings ultimately let us down, attacking wastage, a phase of very sloppy pressing from the forward area and If it wasn’t for Eriksen, virtually no creative inspiration would emanate from our midfield area at all.

Individual

Lloris - no idea what he’s doing for the second goal, it’s as bad as the Salah first goal at Anfield. Terrible keeping

Trippier - Set up the goal and was really good for the most part.

Sanchez - Good game overall

Vertonghen- First half was probably worst 45 minutes I’ve seen him have this season. Ok after that.

Davies - decent enough but got left exposed for their first goal.

Dier - I really don’t how many games like this he’s got to have before Poch réalisés that just being robust isn’t quite enough at this level. And when the team really needed it, he didn’t actually offer much protection for the defence, which, as a player who brings almost nothing in an offensive sense, you would hope would be the pay off.

Dembele - Played ok in patches, needed oxygen from about 60 minutes.

Eriksen - Very good game, the creative instigator of most that was good.

Alli - I thought he was really good for the first 45 minutes, but started to flag second half and was a major factor in our press fading.

Son - Came out like a samelar hound, and was really lively and caused them problems, but needed to be just that little bit more composed at crucial times.

Kane - I thought his hold up play and press leading was superb first half and he gave one of football’s best defensive unit a really tough time, but he’s going through one of those spells where his finishing is not quite tip top. As with others, started to get a bit more ragged second half.

Poch - For a 150 or so minutes of this game we got the ying of Poch, the brave new world we now live in. But for 30 we got the yang, the naivety, that comes attached. You can get away with being brave against the driftwood of the PL, but against the blue bloods, you need to be smart too. I thought after Real Madrid he’d sussed this. We were well ahead on points, needed to just keep them at arms length, keep jabbing, instead we kept swinging and left ourselves wide open to the sucker punch.
Bang on, agree fully.
 

dagraham

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 20, 2005
Messages
10,790
I'm surprised that Son is winning this by a stretch. Was great at the start of the game, perhaps should have put us 2 - 0 up, but was quite poor in the second half in my opinion...
They kicked the shit out of him and Dele 2nd half. He was limping from around 60mins.

I’m still surprised Moura wasn’t brought on, particularly when we needed a goal in the last 20mins.
 

littlemandefoe

Poch's Blue and White Army!
Joined
May 22, 2005
Messages
3,821
Tbh we won't get past the quarter-final or semi-final even if we defeated Juves

I know I am salty. But just let me to feel better.
Allegri is an expert in tactics. We really suffer to this type of manager every f**king time.

Eriksen and Son don't deserve the defeat today.
Don't need fans like you, mate. We could of won the whole thing if we played to our full potential, which we've seen before this season...
 

Bus-Conductor

SC Supporter
Joined
Oct 19, 2004
Messages
39,837
Rose and Aurier are. Trippier and Davies are not.
Trippier was so much better last night than Aurier was in the first leg. Auier got bombed out of PSG almost entirely because he isn't quite CL standard, and that's their primary objective (in fact, ironically, they are now playing a kid we released from our academy as the CL left back).
 

whitesocks

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 16, 2014
Messages
2,517
The moment they equalised Poch should have taken off dele for wanyama and gone 3-5-2 with dier dropping. We lost the game in an instance.
Why did we buy Lucas , surely he could have been thrown on last 10..
I think Dier being surgically clattered removed the option to going back to a 3. He was hanging on and I was surprised he stayed on the pitch as long as he did.
Wanyama is not fully fit. If he had been a realistic option, he would have played from the start.

Lucas seems an honest enough player - but Lamela was the right sub on paper. He knows all their cynical tricks and can dish them out too, and this game could have settled his future, and ended the debate.
As it turned out, he did not fancy it.

There was of course another option from the bench if we wanted some more power and physicality. He just might have been effective, but not popular, even he had bundled in the winner.

Overall it was a great occasion, despite the result and why we need to be in the CL.
 

Gaz_Gammon

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 16, 2005
Messages
16,047
Rose is. We just need to play him. Aurier can be with some time to work with Poch. Davies can play an important role for us going foreward. He just shouldn't be playing in matches where he's physically overmatched.

Tripper offers nothing defensively. He's not good enough and never will be. He should be sold. Downvote all you want but it's the truth.
I couldn't see any of our four full backs being chased by whoever any of the final four CL clubs to be honest.
 

Nebby

Active Member
Joined
Dec 27, 2013
Messages
984
Don't need fans like you, mate. We could of won the whole thing if we played to our full potential, which we've seen before this season...
Nah, we're not there yet. The level of expectation being placed on the team is ridiculous. This team has only had two cracks at the CL and we have shown huge improvement this season over last. But let's not get carried away. It's going to take this group another two or three years to really get to grips with the standard required. We could have been luckier with the draw, but sooner or later you have to out think and out play some truly gifted and experienced teams. We have come so far in such a short space of time, and for once it looks like the team will be kept together. Onwards and upwards!
 

Bus-Conductor

SC Supporter
Joined
Oct 19, 2004
Messages
39,837
They kicked the shit out of him and Dele 2nd half. He was limping from around 60mins.

I’m still surprised Moura wasn’t brought on, particularly when we needed a goal in the last 20mins.

What's the point of Moura when a team is sat back deep? The smart time to bring Moura on would have been when we were still 1-0 up and were going to shell it and counter. That for me, would be the entire reason for buying (and Poch constantly pursuing) a player like Moura. Once they are sat back, Lamela is more likely to thread a pass, so was an OK choice.

More troubling for me is Wanyama wasn't on that pitch from the get go, and then much sooner when we needed to protect it, and why Winks isn't on the bench instead of Sissoko, why there was no CB on the bench, and why if we are not going to have a RB sub, and only a LB sub, didn't we have KWP who can cover both RB and LB.

I would have been very tempted to drop Dier into the back line, go 541 second half and try to hit them on the counter as they would have had to chase two goals.

And I have read a few people whining about our players getting roughed up, but they didn't have to deal with anything they don't deal with from the PL's more physical outfits, and we are often the side dishing it out. Everyone applauded when Alli kicked Ozil a couple of weeks ago. And Dier's only real strength is his...strength.
 

guiltyparty

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 21, 2005
Messages
8,105
What's the point of Moura when a team is sat back deep? The smart time to bring Moura on would have been when we were still 1-0 up and were going to shell it and counter. That for me, would be the entire reason for buying (and Poch constantly pursuing) a player like Moura. Once they are sat back, Lamela is more likely to thread a pass, so was an OK choice.

More troubling for me is Wanyama wasn't on that pitch from the get go, and then much sooner when we needed to protect it, and why Winks isn't on the bench instead of Sissoko, why there was no CB on the bench, and why if we are not going to have a RB sub, and only a LB sub, didn't we have KWP who can cover both RB and LB.

I would have been very tempted to drop Dier into the back line, go 541 second half and try to hit them on the counter as they would have had to chase two goals.

And I have read a few people whining about our players getting roughed up, but they didn't have to deal with anything they don't deal with from the PL's more physical outfits, and we are often the side dishing it out. Everyone applauded when Alli kicked Ozil a couple of weeks ago. And Dier's only real strength is his...strength.
Yeah I thought it was meant to be brilliant when we kicked the shit out of Chelsea to draw and blow the title?

Juve kick the shit out of people and win, which seems cleverer to me
 
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