Match Ratings Ratings vs Juventus

MOTM

  • Lloris

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Trippier

    Votes: 2 0.8%
  • Sanchez

    Votes: 14 5.6%
  • Verts

    Votes: 2 0.8%
  • Davies

    Votes: 3 1.2%
  • Dier

    Votes: 1 0.4%
  • Dembele

    Votes: 15 6.0%
  • Son

    Votes: 173 69.8%
  • Eriksen

    Votes: 22 8.9%
  • Dele

    Votes: 6 2.4%
  • Kane

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Lamela

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Llorente

    Votes: 2 0.8%
  • Poch

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Undecided

    Votes: 4 1.6%
  • None Deserved

    Votes: 4 1.6%

  • Total voters
    248

Nebby

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 27, 2013
Messages
1,024
With four of their team on a yellow, an out-and-out dribbler like Moura might have caused them a few problems.
 

werty

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 8, 2005
Messages
20,174
I also don't really understand why, just before they scored the first Poch seemed to switch us to a 442 with Son going up with Kane. And then why later on he pulled Son over to the right and put Lamela left, placing both where they are least effective.

Poch switched us to 442 just before they scored, from wide, and at the time I thought it seemed to contribute, but watching the sequence back, they scored 3 minutes after the subs I think, so I’m not sure if Poch was reacting or just shifting incidentally, and I’m not sure he had much time to react to their changes, within 5 minutes they’d scored twice.
We didn't. Son was still playing on the left, or supposed to be. I don't remember the sequence of play that led to this, but Son started pressing their centre-backs from his left wing position(maybe he didn't realise they switched formation and was supposed to press Barzagli like the first half) and found himself in the middle. Alli saw this and pointed at Son to say I got you covered. He unfortunately slid in to intercept a pass, missed it, and we defended the rest of the play equally as poorly. For the second goal Son was clearly on the left and Alli in the middle.

I agree with a lot of the rest you said.
 

matthew.absurdum

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 31, 2012
Messages
2,691
Don't need fans like you, mate. We could of won the whole thing if we played to our full potential, which we've seen before this season...
Tottenham till I die and you cannot stop me. What I want to say is that we are not consistent enough in the big matches. Of course we could beat everyone if we play our full potential (like vs gonners and man utd this season). But the problem is that we definitely lack something that to keep us performing in these kinds of big matches, like those great teams. Maybe the best explanation is that we are building our project and we are not there yet, and we are slightly over performing now, which is a great thing.
 

dagraham

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 20, 2005
Messages
11,105
What's the point of Moura when a team is sat back deep? The smart time to bring Moura on would have been when we were still 1-0 up and were going to shell it and counter. That for me, would be the entire reason for buying (and Poch constantly pursuing) a player like Moura. Once they are sat back, Lamela is more likely to thread a pass, so was an OK choice.

More troubling for me is Wanyama wasn't on that pitch from the get go, and then much sooner when we needed to protect it, and why Winks isn't on the bench instead of Sissoko, why there was no CB on the bench, and why if we are not going to have a RB sub, and only a LB sub, didn't we have KWP who can cover both RB and LB.

I would have been very tempted to drop Dier into the back line, go 541 second half and try to hit them on the counter as they would have had to chase two goals.

And I have read a few people whining about our players getting roughed up, but they didn't have to deal with anything they don't deal with from the PL's more physical outfits, and we are often the side dishing it out. Everyone applauded when Alli kicked Ozil a couple of weeks ago. And Dier's only real strength is his...strength.
I totally agree about bringing Moura on earlier, in fact I was calling for it myself when we were losing impetus in the 2nd half even before they scored. However, even when Juve were sat deep I still feel Moura is more likely to provide some end product. For all Lamela's qualities, he still flatters to deceive a bit on the ball.

I have no complaints about our players being roughed up, they have to be men out there and as you say, we can dish it out. I do think it affected us though and it could and should have brought a change earlier imo.
 

matthew.absurdum

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 31, 2012
Messages
2,691
What's the point of Moura when a team is sat back deep? The smart time to bring Moura on would have been when we were still 1-0 up and were going to shell it and counter. That for me, would be the entire reason for buying (and Poch constantly pursuing) a player like Moura. Once they are sat back, Lamela is more likely to thread a pass, so was an OK choice.
I tend to think that Poch often wants to sub Son off if he needs to bring on Lucas. But Son was really good yesterday, so he refuses to put Lucas on atm. I don't remember once dele was subbed off when we were playing well and there was no need to rest Dele (and Kane and Eriksen are more unlikely to be subbed off)
 

markdadude

Active Member
Joined
Oct 25, 2007
Messages
366
That was a bit of **** wasn't it.

And then, not for the first time, Lloris does his fucking idiotic "I'm going to try and lull him into a false sense of security by not actually closing him down at all and giving him the whole goal to aim at" thing.

....

Lloris - no idea what he’s doing for the second goal, it’s as bad as the Salah first goal at Anfield. Terrible keeping
.

Yup, I feel Lloris has regressed this season for whatever reason. Nerves seem to be getting the better of him - retreating away from danger rather than confronting it head on. When it comes down to just striker vs keeper situations he's making the goal look big and himself small. Ederson, de Gea - he is nowhere near them.
The goal he conceded v Sanchez at emirates was terrifyingly bad but largely escaped criticism at the time as I recall.
https://gifs.com/gif/arsenal-vs-tot...ighlights-premier-league-18-11-2017-hd-4RwQDx
His job at the top level requires extraordinary bravery, putting your body on the line if necessary. Worried about him.
 
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T-Love92

Well-Known Assembler
Joined
Aug 3, 2017
Messages
241
I agree on Lloris... I really love Hugo and i was over the moon when we signed him - but he's not on a level with De Gea, Ederson who are the best keepers in the league. But he IS the best option for us at the moment. Which better keeper would be available?
 

Gb160

I could catch a monkey
Joined
Jun 20, 2012
Messages
12,866
I agree on Lloris... I really love Hugo and i was over the moon when we signed him - but he's not on a level with De Gea, Ederson who are the best keepers in the league. But he IS the best option for us at the moment. Which better keeper would be available?
Some experts on here wanted Pickford or Butland.
As you say, Hugo isn't the best, but could we attract better?, I don't think so.
 

Bus-Conductor

SC Supporter
Joined
Oct 19, 2004
Messages
39,837
We didn't. Son was still playing on the left, or supposed to be. I don't remember the sequence of play that led to this, but Son started pressing their centre-backs from his left wing position(maybe he didn't realise they switched formation and was supposed to press Barzagli like the first half) and found himself in the middle. Alli saw this and pointed at Son to say I got you covered. He unfortunately slid in to intercept a pass, missed it, and we defended the rest of the play equally as poorly. For the second goal Son was clearly on the left and Alli in the middle.

I agree with a lot of the rest you said.

Yeah, the 442 thing was odd, and maybe not anything deliberate, I maybe just read it as something deliberate that wasn't, it was just one of those amorphous things that can happen to us sometimes. Literally as I typed "why has Poch switched us to a 442" in the match thread, they scored, and almost immediately we reverted.
 

matthew.absurdum

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 31, 2012
Messages
2,691
Some experts on here wanted Pickford or Butland.
As you say, Hugo isn't the best, but could we attract better?, I don't think so.
Our budget is limited. I don't think we could have enough budget to buy a goalkeeper that is better than Hugo atm. There is priority (amid Toby's situation). The only thing that we could do is to hope that Hugo can maintain his level. But it seems that Vorm could go this summer. It would be interesting to see who is going to replace him. Maybe a young goalkeeper with great potential?
 

JUSTINSIGNAL

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 10, 2008
Messages
10,772
That's far too simplified and picking the obvious target. The goals came so quickly after the change of shape, it would have been hard for any manager to make changes based on that evidence. As I said in the rest of my post, there were other factors at play... When they managed to pass our high press we had space between the lines and a poor shape between our defence and cm2 all game which allowed them some joy to pick up the ball, was that to blame and should have been addressed? but was that issue compounded by the press failing due to the front four dropping in output in the second half and so we failed as a unit?

So many factors other than 'well they did this shape, so we should have done this', and whilst as I say there were things I might have changed if it was me, the lightening quick and brutal turnaround did make things quite hard for a manager there.
Exactly this. It’s hard for any manager to react when the opposition changes have such a sudden impact.

I think in those instances you need your players to show a bit initiative and readjust until further instructions come from the sidelines. That’s where are lack of experience showed. And unfortunately they sucker punched us.

No shame in going out to one of the best teams in the competition. It just hurts that for 60 minutes of the match we genuinely had one foot in the quarter finals only for it to be cruelly snatched away.
 

Derp

Active Member
Joined
Dec 4, 2014
Messages
249
Davies worse passer? sorry don't agree....but i do agree Poch should have reacted.

If we had stuck away the chances we created Juve would have been blown away....this was a game we threw away.

Hopefully we and Poch will learn from this and hopefully we will go on and still have a great season...coys.

.
Dier and Davies had the two worst pass accuracy percentage of our outfield players in the game. Both really low for a DM and a wingback. So something was definitely not right...
 

Lighty64

Glory Glory
Joined
Aug 24, 2010
Messages
6,120
There is losing and there is losing. It depends on the way how you lose. I am pissed of because I firmly believe that we would have won that game but for Poch's poor tactics, naivety, poor game management or whatever you want to call it. We beat ourselves, Juventus did not and our lads did me proud, our Manager did not
was it Pochettino's fault that we never converted our chances?

Allegri made 2 changes within a minute, and 5 minutes after they made their 2nd sub we went from 1-0 up to 1-2. before they equalised they didn't look a danger, and by the time they looked dangerous the subs we could of brought on, might not of still stopped the cross that came in which their player headed on into an area Poch couldn't cover and ended up with a World Class striker getting on the end of it. their 2nd Poch didn't tell Sanchez to chase the player into an area, and never told Davies to stop pushing out.

we just never got the rub of the green, and was punished due to not finishing our chances
 

Phomesy

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 20, 2013
Messages
4,464
Rose and Aurier are. Trippier and Davies are not.
I simply don't understand how anyone watching this season could possibly think that. There's simply zero evidence to back up your claim. You are basing it on complete faith not on reality. Does Ben Davies a massive disservice who has been excellent this season. Imo
 

Colonel_Klinck

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 19, 2004
Messages
6,714
So proud of the guys. After last seasons European disaster we were magnificent this season. If we can take the lessons learned forward to next year then we should fear no one. We are still a team learning and growing. Juventus have been together for years and their experience showed. They never panicked. We’ll come back stronger.
Son motm.
 

elDiablo

SC Supporter
Joined
Feb 2, 2005
Messages
4,575
The tactical switch from Juve certainly had an impact and we could of done better for the second, but at this level you can't pass up that many good chances and only have a goal to show for it.

They had two proper chances and scored both.

We were the better team over both legs but unfortunately our profligacy cost us.

Nevertheless a fine effort tonight and overall an excellent European campaign that we can proud of.

Son and Eriksen were the star men tonight, but its a pity Son couldn’t convert a couple more of those chances and we'd be in the next round.

But I'll give Eriksen the MOTM, some of his passing was out of this world. First half he played a beauty into Son, and again in the second half - remember that swerving, raking daisy cutter from one side of the pitch to the other, diagonally hit into their box , what a fucking pass that was!!!!
Re: eriksen pass. Loved it as well and left me wondering why we dont see it more.

On the game, we can struggle when Burnley, Swansea or palace
park the bus so I knew it was game over when they got the second. But that's fine as i agree we lost it by not being more clinical first half.
 

Bulletspur

The Reasonable Advocate
Joined
Oct 17, 2006
Messages
7,044
Thread starter #140
I don’t agree with people who insists that Poch couldn’t do anything to avoid defeat and that the goals came out of nowhere. I watched the match with Danish commentators and they talked about what they thought both teams should do. They mentioned putting Liechsteiner on to get some offense and width and with us they mentioned that a lot of our players looked tired and we should get fresh legs on and “bunker” down.

Allegri then made two good subs and Poch did nothing. The goals definitely didn’t come out of nothing, Juventus had looked much better in the minutes up to the goals. They had like ten minutes where they were on top and banged in two goals.

All of this was definitely avoidable if we had been proactive and made changes when we needed to. Instead we had to wait until 15 minutes left of the game before Poch decided to react. We also only used 2 subs even thought lots of players looked tired. Also why is his subs always so late, maybe giving them more time would make it easier for our subs to change the game. Poch record with subs changing the game around is so poor.

Poch deserves a lot of credit for how much he has moved us forward, but he also deserves blame for yet another exit where he was out thought by another manager. It’s not the first time this has happened and he needs to do better if we ever want to win a trophy.
SPOT FUCKING ON!!. Nothing Poch could have done my arse! He made us the football force we are and we rightly give him the credit, at the same time if he makes an error in judgement we should also be bold enough to say it as it is, its not being anti Poch. Not saying we should have parked the bus but there are times to slow it down and yesterday was one of those times. I am not blaming any players for this loss, this one is on Poch. Hopefully deep down he will accept it and learn from it.
 
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