Ratings Vs Limassol (H)

Who was your MOTM?


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Spurs_Bear

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#81
Genuinely surprising opinion
I was finding the spurs swarm particularly stirring at points last night.
I think it looked more like a swarm because we played with two strikers, let's all be honest, that's what Paulinho is/was last night. QPR was better from the team as a whole.

I enjoyed yesterday's performance as much as Sunday, but I'm surprised (not actually because, you know...) how this pressing thing is coming to light in this thread. We did what we needed to and many points looked to be conserving energy. Which I think is good.
 

minesadouble

Drove my Chevy to the Levy
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#82
It is dangerous trying to press intensely for the full 90 mins. I don't remember the precise stats but Southampton last season gave away late goals (including v Spurs) and generally tired towards the end of matches. This early in the season and the system in particular, the players need to pace themselves. The skill is to be able to keep enough in the tank to be pressing at the end as much as the beginning (especially if we need a late goal). That means taking a few breathers or at least dropping the intensity and knowing when to do that, versus when to step it up. It's no surprise if individuals are catching their breath (looking lazy) at different times, when everybody is learning, and still acquiring match fitness. I was told that Lambert was like the lead dog pulling a sled. He set the pace and the others took their cue from him and his body language (this was from my Saints supporting cousin so no idea how well it would stand up to Gary Neville's analysis!).
 

CowInAComa

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#83
I think it looked more like a swarm because we played with two strikers, let's all be honest, that's what Paulinho is/was last night. QPR was better from the team as a whole.

I enjoyed yesterday's performance as much as Sunday, but I'm surprised (not actually because, you know...) how this pressing thing is coming to light in this thread. We did what we needed to and many points looked to be conserving energy. Which I think is good.
I think in reality that will be what we see from the system, there is a definite ebb and flow to our pressing game its not 100% go for the entire game. There were periods of ball possession and periods of sitting off them and letting them play at the back. And i think that stems from the fact its pretty intensive and we need to manage our energy levels over the 90mins, much like a 12 round boxing match.

Agree that QPR was better. We destroyed them in 45mins at the weekend, there was literally no need to run ourselves into the ground for the second 45mins so we didnt, I wasnt particularly fazed or surprised. Sensible.

Its an offensive weapon more than a defensive one.
 
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#84
Yet Eriksen covered the most distance of any Spurs player in the game against QPR.
But that doesn't really tell you what he did does it ? I meant lazy in terms of application to the press.

Do you think Eriksen pressed well for the duration (or a duration) of the QPR match ?
 

CowInAComa

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#86
It is dangerous trying to press intensely for the full 90 mins. I don't remember the precise stats but Southampton last season gave away late goals (including v Spurs) and generally tired towards the end of matches. This early in the season and the system in particular, the players need to pace themselves. The skill is to be able to keep enough in the tank to be pressing at the end as much as the beginning (especially if we need a late goal). That means taking a few breathers or at least dropping the intensity and knowing when to do that, versus when to step it up. It's no surprise if individuals are catching their breath (looking lazy) at different times, when everybody is learning, and still acquiring match fitness. I was told that Lambert was like the lead dog pulling a sled. He set the pace and the others took their cue from him and his body language (this was from my Saints supporting cousin so no idea how well it would stand up to Gary Neville's analysis!).
^
Should have just wrote 'what he said'
 

Spurs_Bear

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#87
I think in reality that will be what we see from the system, there is a definite ebb and flow to our pressing game its not 100% go for the entire game. There were periods of ball possession and periods of sitting off them and letting them play at the back. And i think that stems from the fact its pretty intensive and we need to manage our energy levels over the 90mins, much like a 12 round boxing match.

Agree that QPR was better. We destroyed them in 45mins at the weekend, there was literally no need to run ourselves into the ground for the second 45mins so we didnt, I wasnt particularly fazed or surprised. Sensible.

Its an offensive weapon more than a defensive one.
Yeah agreed, just thinking back to our conversations last season at this time and it seems a million miles away!
 
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#88
Totally, you wouldn't get any Gary Neville comments about our pressing last night! Much better in all ways against QPR, and you're right about the first goal too, was just a genuine shite pass which went to Paulinho!

But you did get comments about our pressing last night. Clerk Carlisle may not be as "man of the working men" as Neville Neville's progeny, but he's not blind. He pointed it out several times, as did wee Strachan I believe.
 

sloth

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#89
What's so impressive about winning the ball in midfield against a team that weren't even trying to get out of their box ? two of our goals last night came from pressing them in their third. Not letting them play out. And there were several other examples.

I thought the difference for me was against QPR we only really did it collectively for about 15 minutes high up, then people like Adebayor and Eriksen just got lazy. Second half there were long phases where we didn't press at all until they got into our third and we were sitting deep and breaking.

Last night Kane, Paulinho, Lennon, Sandro and Dembele and even Townsend - who still isn't great at it but who I have never seen work harder without the ball I don't think - were all pressing high up, and that went on for much longer in the game until eventually after an hour or so it did fade a bit, but even then we still kept a higher line.

As with QPR it's hard to gauge where our "good" and their "shit" begins and ends, but I think off the ball we were more coherent last night than we were against QPR for longer of the match.
QPR are a PL team, Limassol are probably League One at best.
 

Spurs_Bear

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#90
But you did get comments about our pressing last night. Clerk Carlisle may not be as "man of the working men" as Neville Neville's progeny, but he's not blind. He pointed it out several times, as did wee Strachan I believe.
Clarke Carlisle also said what he said about white rhinos, and made some comment about Kane being very 'able'.

That master tactician Gordan Strachan and we're ultimately scraping the barrel from 'pundits' who probably didn't even know we played QPR on Sunday.
 

sloth

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#91
Well fair enough...I know what you mean about Kane and Paulinho. I don't think the pass was misplaced because of pressure for the first goal, I think it was just sloppy - as was most of their possession for the night.

I just didn't see the high intensity press per se. Perhaps we were more aggressive in our pressing in patches against QPR first half...but pressed in a more measured way last night - maybe.
Agree with the first bit.
 

Supersi32

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2,376
#92
But that doesn't really tell you what he did does it ? I meant lazy in terms of application to the press.

Do you think Eriksen pressed well for the duration (or a duration) of the QPR match ?
I thought that in general the team pressed well in the first half against QPR, we have to rememeber that this style is new to our players and will take time to develop. You suggested that Eriksen was lazy off the ball, I merely highlighted that the ground he covered during the game would suggest otherwise.
 

JimmyG2

SC Supporter
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Dec 7, 2006
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7,419
#93
Intensity and pressing as a game plan
is down to the manager and on field to the captain.
But as far as the team are concerned it's a state of mind, an attitude a mind set
Which is why it is dangerous to say,
'Oh we've got this one covered, have a five minute ten minute whatever break.
This was the reserve side in the main
and if they want to step up it's Pochettino's way or no way.
which is why I was disappointed, and so was Mauricio. by the look of him last night
with the lack of urgency at times.
We didn't need it in the circumstances but we might on Sunday or whenever.
 
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#94
I think it looked more like a swarm because we played with two strikers, let's all be honest, that's what Paulinho is/was last night. QPR was better from the team as a whole.

I enjoyed yesterday's performance as much as Sunday, but I'm surprised (not actually because, you know...) how this pressing thing is coming to light in this thread. We did what we needed to and many points looked to be conserving energy. Which I think is good.

That's fine, and that's what has to be done with any high intensity pressing system. I would hope if Pochettino improves anything from his Southampton time it's the managing of the "rest" intervals.

I agree that Kane and Paulinho made a big difference, not because they played as two strikers, but because they both applied themselves off the ball better than Adebayor and Eriksen did for a longer duration of the game. They were both more disciplined. And that brought others into it like Sandro who was his busiest ****iest self.

As was discussed ad nauseum in the Poch for manager thread, the biggest reservation I have is that Southampton were brilliant for 45-60 minutes then absolute pants thereafter because they'd ran themselves ragged. And the facts supported this heavily. They were the worst team for giving up leads and recovering deficits I believe.

When ever we talk about pressing Barca are invariably evoked "we can't press like Barca". And I agree, the role model for Pochettino should be someone like Dortmund, who vary the press between high up like a swarm and sometimes deeper and they have "rest" phases which means they don't have that all for 60 min, nothing left for 30 that we saw with Southampton often last year (as was evidenced even in our games with them). They never ever just stop pressing collectively though, it is just coached nature to them to do it in a more harmonious and cohesive way wherever they do it.

I like Pochettino's style, as you know, I like nothing more than the smell of press in the morning, but I hope he's learnt something form his Southampton days.
 

talkshowhost86

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#97
I didn't see the first 25 minutes or so, but from what I saw the following players impressed me:

Naughton - Thought he was calm defensively and looked really dangerous going forwards. Generally a very good performance.

Paulinho - Seemed really fired up in the second half (after the first goal really) and seemed to have a good understanding with Kane. Looks much more keen to impress than he did last season.

Chiriches - I really like him with the ball at his feet and I suppose the questions are whether he's strong enough defensively, and whether he'd be happy to be second fiddle to Vertonghen.

Sandro - A Sandro performance of old from what I saw. If he can still do that and he's fit, then I don't know why we'd let him go.

Kane - Good quick feet and showed real intelligence in his running at times. I think his best position is off the striker as I don't think back to goal is where he's strongest, and he really does HAVE to put away more of his chances, but generally a decent performance.

Promising signs generally, but we have to remember the level of the opposition. Either way it was good to see some people putting their hands up for a long term future at the club.
 

sloth

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8,995
#98
That's fine, and that's what has to be done with any high intensity pressing system. I would hope if Pochettino improves anything from his Southampton time it's the managing of the "rest" intervals.

I agree that Kane and Paulinho made a big difference, not because they played as two strikers, but because they both applied themselves off the ball better than Adebayor and Eriksen did for a longer duration of the game. They were both more disciplined. And that brought others into it like Sandro who was his busiest ****iest self.

As was discussed ad nauseum in the Poch for manager thread, the biggest reservation I have is that Southampton were brilliant for 45-60 minutes then absolute pants thereafter because they'd ran themselves ragged. And the facts supported this heavily. They were the worst team for giving up leads and recovering deficits I believe.

When ever we talk about pressing Barca are invariably evoked "we can't press like Barca". And I agree, the role model for Pochettino should be someone like Dortmund, who vary the press between high up like a swarm and sometimes deeper and they have "rest" phases which means they don't have that all for 60 min, nothing left for 30 that we saw with Southampton often last year (as was evidenced even in our games with them). They never ever just stop pressing collectively though, it is just coached nature to them to do it in a more harmonious and cohesive way wherever they do it.

I like Pochettino's style, as you know, I like nothing more than the smell of press in the morning, but I hope he's learnt something form his Southampton days.
Paulinho was my biggest disappointment in that game. He was off the pace, kept slowing things down, it was like the bad old AVB days at times. He did improve, and I do think he might have it in him to be a player in the first team because we've seen glimpses previously, but on current form he's neither a busy fuck off the ball, nor got much vision on it, basically he's a main reason behind the team's constipation. I'm honestly a bit baffled that you can have such an opposite idea, it's a bit like when you used to say Jenas was a busy fuck, and a player with the vision to make shit happen.
 

talkshowhost86

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#99
Paulinho was my biggest disappointment in that game. He was off the pace, kept slowing things down, it was like the bad old AVB days at times. He did improve, and I do think he might have it in him to be a player in the first team because we've seen glimpses previously, but on current form he's neither a busy fuck off the ball, nor got much vision on it, basically he's a main reason behind the team's constipation. I'm honestly a bit baffled that you can have such an opposite idea, it's a bit like when you used to say Jenas was a busy fuck, and a player with the vision to make shit happen.
I thought Paulinho definitely put himself about last night and his pressing of their defence caused them multiple issues.

I do worry about him slowing the game down though. Particularly in the first half he seemed to take far too many touches too many times.
 
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Paulinho was my biggest disappointment in that game. He was off the pace, kept slowing things down, it was like the bad old AVB days at times. He did improve, and I do think he might have it in him to be a player in the first team because we've seen glimpses previously, but on current form he's neither a busy fuck off the ball, nor got much vision on it, basically he's a main reason behind the team's constipation. I'm honestly a bit baffled that you can have such an opposite idea, it's a bit like when you used to say Jenas was a busy fuck, and a player with the vision to make shit happen.
I don't have a completely opposite idea where Paulinho is concerned, I think he definitely has his limitations and is not smartest or quickest cookie, but in the context of the conversation about the pressing in advanced areas in this game I thought he contributed reasonably well to the collective approach off the ball.

This is hardly a polar opinion:

"Decent game. Set up Kane well for the first, took his gaol well, did some perfunctory stuff well enough."

I didn't say Jenas was a busy fuck with the vision to make things happen, I said he contributed more than people continually recognised, especially for a player doing a role he wasn't best suited to, and his vision was under rated in comparison to the over rating of Huddlestone's.

Come come now Sloth, bullshit like this is not your normal modas operandi.
 
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