Ratings vs Liverpool

Discussion in 'Spurs Chat' started by Bulletspur, Oct 22, 2017.


  1. Lloris

    20 vote(s)
  2. Toby

    0 vote(s)
  3. Sanchez

    4 vote(s)
  4. Verts

    25 vote(s)
  5. Trippier

    6 vote(s)
  6. Aurier

    2 vote(s)
  7. Eriksen

    0 vote(s)
  8. Winks

    12 vote(s)
  9. Dele

    23 vote(s)
  10. Son

    17 vote(s)
  11. kane

    246 vote(s)
  12. Sissoko

    1 vote(s)
  13. Dier

    0 vote(s)
  14. Llorente

    0 vote(s)
  15. Undecided

    1 vote(s)
  1. Bus-Conductor

    Bus-Conductor SC Supporter

    Ratings Received:
    +47,729 / 2,268 / -669
    All Hail the White Board

    OK, for some this will be 5 days late in arriving, but:


    That game wasn't won by Kane's swashbuckling, Alli or Eriksen's craft, Trippier's technique, Lloris's fingertips, Aurier's power, Son's verve, Vertonghen's smoothness, Winks industry, Alderweireld's solidity or Sanchez's tenacity, that game was won on Pochettino's white board. That game is an example of how clever collective tactical application can effect a game and supersede individual flare.

    That wasn't quite the 532 of midweek, that was more a 352 defensive shape/3331 offensive shape. As soon as I saw the selections pre match I had a hunch what Poch was going to do, and for me, it was brave and brilliant. There are few occasions when playing a RB at LB makes much sense; when playing against a pacey left footer, cutting in, playing at LWF in a 433 is one of them. It wasn't a faultless performance by Aurier, but it was largely effective and shrewd by Poch.

    Playing Son up with Kane was much more harmonious than the Llorente/Kane of Tuesday (not that Llorente played badly, he didn't, he was better than Kane on the night, but it was too samey, too one paced) and much more effective for the counter attacking tactics, perfectly demonstrated by the second goal, a goal that only Son could score, but a goal that was all about matching good counter attacking tactics with the right selections to get the best out of it.

    The LB and forward decisions were shrewd. The brave part was playing a CM3 of Winks, flanked by Eriksen and Alli, but it was just that bit collectively cleverer than the CM3 with Sissoko at Madrid. Now we had three in there who could all do something progressive and inventive, which made us far more threatening whenever we won the ball back. Alli had his best game for months, possibly the best game he's had in a Spurs shirt, more graft, much less fuckery, more zip, more purpose. Eriksen was much better than on Tuesday where he found himself very isolated on the left side of a midfield three with two big guys ahead of him and 7 guys behind him, no one to play football with.

    Poch has always been one of the Premier League's best coaches, we are now seeing Poch evolve into one of the Premier League's better tactical thinkers. We are shifting shapes, personnel and applications almost on a game by game basis. He's not always getting it right, sometimes the selections don't quite marry the tactics, sometimes the application isn't quite right, sometimes he gets all three facets a little bit wrong, and his in game management is often a little counter intuitive, but the fact he's thinking and adjusting to different challenges is very, very impressive, I can't remember too many managers over the course of the Premier League (and before) who have managed to display tactical diversity and coaching proficiency successfully. I can't remember too many who have actually displayed much tactical diversity at all.

    It's a shame the game got a bit sloppy in the last 20-25 minutes, because for 60 minutes it was up there with Poch's very best games, very different to the others in that pantheon of greats, but that last 20-25 minutes just took a tiny bit of gloss off what for 60 minutes had been a tactical masterclass. We pressed intelligently, transitioned effectively, slickly morphed between defensive shapes and offensive shapes. Nuanced roles interchanged.

    I understand we were on economy for the last 20-25, jockeying out the game, but we relaxed too much for my liking, stood off too far, allowed the possibility of possibility - and if they'd have grabbed one, it might have got a lot more squeaky. I know Poch by now and I know he'd have been thinking the same.

    A mention for the back three, who were for the second time in a week superb, but especially Vertonghen who is pivotal to our flexibility and the way we play as a team. His ability to play football like midfeilder, his composure at all times, just gives this team a dimension that most teams just don't have.

    We can't ignore that Liverpool were missing a couple of pivotal players and that Lovren gave us a massive helping hand, but we are missing players and that first sixty minutes was more about us applying pressure and their weak links buckling under that pressure.

    I've been calling for Poch to find a way to combine being a bit braver in CM without sacrificing all stability, I'm not sure today's solution would fit all occasions but it was good today and fortune favoured that bravery.


    Lloris - He's got to sweep up that through ball. Redeemed himself with an outstanding save and helped set up a goal too.

    Trippier - Quick bit thinking and deft touch that set up that vital first goal. Very good game.

    TA - Very good game.

    Sanchez - Best game he's had at Wembley, tenacious and quick.

    Vertonghen - Smooth operator. Another very slick performance, his comfort and calmness on the ball helps us build out from the back.

    Aurier - A couple of rash moments, otherwise decent game.

    Eriksen - Much better performance, played a couple of great passes, moved the ball cleverly generally, worked hard in midfield.

    Winks - Another very good performance from the kid.

    Alli - Games like this disprove the misnomer that he has to be doing stupid fuckery to be "him". He doesn't, and the best performances he's put in for us are when he's buckled down, concentrated on what the fuck he's doing and worked hard with and without the ball, making better, simpler decisions more often. Made the most tackle/intercept combo in the team 3/3, played two through balls to put Son and Kane clean through, and took his goal cooly. My (Player)POTM today.

    Son - The way he powered past Milner and then cooly slotted home was poetry. Unlucky not to have a couple more, good game.

    Kane - Monstrous. The goals, the assist for Son - including the way he sells Lovren and plays the perfect pass into Son's run. The work as well. Should have gone off after 65-70 minutes, you could see he was spent, but what a shift.

    MOTM - Poch - used his noggin, went to school on Liverpool, came up with the perfect selections, format and application - and delivered a wonderful dismantling of a very dangerous and difficult opponent.
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2017
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  2. Flashspur

    Flashspur Well-Known Member

    Ratings Received:
    +6,322 / 359 / -143
    This was a tactical lesson for Klopp.

    Poch had him in his pocket. Good to see our manager coming of age tactically. We played rope a dope. We leaned back took the punches and then counter attacked with gusto. Its rare to see Spurs down in the possession percentage stats like this. Kane was brilliant again. His judgement for the first was sublime and his pass for Son was just beautifully weighted. I liked the 3-5-2 and the solidity and discipline we showed was such a sharp contrast to what Liverpool came up with in comparison.

    We are growing into a proper killing machine. Our lads are now grasping that they have the capacity to take games by the scruff of the neck and kill off the opposition. The self belief is growing. I loved the way that Eriksen, Winks and Dele combined in MF. Dele in particular was so impressive and disciplined. We now have so many combinations of players who can take up multiple roles that gives Poch an increasing number of tactical options. A great win where we were strangely subdued at times and then sparked into life with menace when needed. It was economical, it was brutal and it was controlling. Apart from a sloppy period in the second half when we sat back too much, this was a command performance in front of a record PL crowd!

    I thought we played this match with 30% in reserve. Good to conserve a bit of energy. That was three 3 excellent games in a very short period back to back with another brutal month to come. Long may it continue. I am giving the lads 8 all round with Hugo 8.5 for some excellent saves and Harry Kane Esquire a 9. Like Son said in the post match interview, 'this Monster' can score anywhere, anytime. Call him dead eye dick, this lad has taken Clive Allen's coaching advice to heart. There is only one goal Harry and it does not move.
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  3. Gaz_Gammon

    Gaz_Gammon Well-Known Member

    Ratings Received:
    +17,936 / 1,387 / -609
    If anyone doubts our managers footballing knowledge on how to set out a team to beat the opposition scroll forward to minute 4.56. This win wasn't by accident, luck or the use of a Ouija board.

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  4. Gaz_Gammon

    Gaz_Gammon Well-Known Member

    Ratings Received:
    +17,936 / 1,387 / -609
  5. davros

    davros Well-Known Member

    Ratings Received:
    +413 / 3 / -0
    This was an excellent result and strong performance against a team who will expect to challenge for a spot in the top 4.

    The most impressive thing for me was the way our midfield was set up in the absence of Dembele, Wanyama, and Dier. Poch clearly saw this as a home game against a team with a vulnerable defence, and he set up the team accordingly. This put Winks at the centre of the midfield, and it shows how much he's developed that he looked as comfortable as he did. No, it wasn't the most eye-catching performance, but he was a solid component in (for most of the game) a very eye catching performance.

    We are now level on points with Man U, and its interesting to compare how the teams have responded to losing their first-choice midfielders. Mourinho's team looks fragile, defensive, and reliant on a single player to create something to rattle the opposition. Poch's team has been crafted to adapt and morph depending on the situation and the opposition, and yesterday they shook Liverpool's weakest points with collective guile, ruthlessly punishing their mistakes.

    I think our best player yesterday, as in so many recent games, was Vertonghen. That said, Alli played really well in a deeper role than usual, Kane was incredible in his work and got two goals and an assist (top scorer in the league despite a barren August and only scoring in one home game), and Lloris made at least one really excellent stop and was in tune with our mostly solid back 3. It is hard to believe that Sanchez wasn't part of our mean defence last season - he looked very settled.
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  6. EastLondonYid

    EastLondonYid Well-Known Member

    Ratings Received:
    +5,604 / 199 / -92
    Players grow, players improve and evolve....

    Well so do coaches....Poch has this season and taken his boys with him.

    Masterclass week...take a bow Poch.
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  7. Dharmabum

    Dharmabum Well-Known Member

    Ratings Received:
    +11,250 / 290 / -92
    Not exactly unfamiliar. He's played in various midfield positions at Dons, and's played in midfield at Spurs too. And it's fairly evident that his best spot is in midfield.
  8. Shadydan

    Shadydan Well-Known Member

    Ratings Received:
    +39,497 / 1,021 / -402
    Unfamiliar in the sense that he has rarely played there for Spurs...how many times has he played that role for us?
  9. Hakkz

    Hakkz Active Member

    Ratings Received:
    +1,030 / 30 / -15
    I agree completely. I think part of it is to make sure Dele focuses on the midfield work. Scoring goals should be seen as a bonus.
  10. JimmyG2

    JimmyG2 SC Supporter

    Ratings Received:
    +4,702 / 208 / -50
    Sorry, over-excitement and I edited him out.

    We would have won without him though,
    Ten's plenty at fortress Wembley
    But he played well again and nearly scored.
    Not quite MOM , amongst the candidates though
    No more Mr.Grumpy!.
  11. mpickard2087

    mpickard2087 Fantastic Member

    Ratings Received:
    +21,562 / 564 / -231
    Seemed to me that we were entirely focused on blocking up the centre of the pitch, and we did this job fantastically well for the most part until the very latter stages. We were happy for the ball to go wide, we'd shuffle across as a unit if it went out there, because they didn't have anyone who could scare us if they put a cross in (even more so when Can was switched to RB), it was all about denying the central space for the likes of Coutinho. Our midfield three, plus Son, just focused on being a tight diamond/box in front of the centre backs and all four of them deserve a lot of credit for how they carried out this task.

    With the ball we were efficient and precise with what we did see of it and on the counter attack. You cant ignore that on all four goals we were aided by some awful defending, but we punished this with utter ruthlessness. The first goal Kane still has a lot to do, but comes up with a sublime flick and then off balance keeps his cool on his (nominally) weaker foot. The second is a great cross with a finish to match. Alli strides onto a dropping ball and keeps his composure for the third, and Vertonghen's reaction touch and hit for the fourth goal was great technique in itself.

    Twice this week we've had a little lapse in concentration which has undone our good work in games and been brutally punished. Kane, like Aurier in midweek, has had the opportunity to clear his lines, hasn't done so, coughed up the ball and a decent attack has then gone and punished it severely. You have to strive to play smart 100% of the time, ahead in the game, trying to get out of your own territory a little under the cosh just hit that ball over the top, turn them around and re-organise. Two goals we can learn from.

    Overall a very good win that topped off a very good week. Two heartening results and performances in the continuing development and evolution of the team.

    Lloris - Not sure what he was doing for the Salah goal. Redeemed himself second half with a couple of great saves.

    Trippier - Smart ball over the top for the opening goal, defended his flank well.

    Alderweireld - A couple of tentative defensive wobbles and I'm starting to accept he's not going to get back to his imperious pre-injury best, but overall was a solid presence at the back and used the ball calmly when playing out from the back.

    Sanchez - You should keep reminding yourself that he's 21 and been pitched straight in, because it makes these performances even more impressive. A few minor moments, but defended resolutely throughout and didn't give Firmino a kick.

    Vertonghen - Very good performance. Whether it was centrally or being drawn out wide he broke up play and didn't give them a sniff. Great reactions for the fourth goal.

    Aurier - There were a few errors - he dived in badly a couple of times and got caught out dicking around with the ball on his own goal line, but overall he had a strong game and looked comfortable on the left.

    Winks - Very little that was eye-catching, but was mostly calm and composed and did a really disciplined job as the sole pivot.

    Eriksen - Worked very hard and first half especially was probably the most tenacious I have ever seen him play.

    Alli - Also worked very hard in the role he was tasked with and showed that discipline and concentration are qualities he has if he puts his mind to it. Was sensible with the ball, scored a nice goal, put in a delicious through ball for Son, and even got the tricks out late on for the crowd. Very good game and a benchmark for him.

    Son - Some great movement and energy made him the perfect foil for Kane. Scored with a neat finish, unlucky not to add more, and he worked hard to drop back into midfield when needed.

    Kane - Liverpool provided the gaps, he absolutely stormed through them. Sublime for the first and second goals, and poached the fourth. Also worked hard and had ran himself into the ground after about 70 mins - I would have subbed him off instead of Son tbh at that point.

    Poch - Tactically very good.
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2017
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  12. felmani26

    felmani26 SC Supporter

    Ratings Received:
    +16,082 / 355 / -105
    Had the pleasure of being at Wembley for the first time this season courtesy of complimentary tickets from Ben Davies (yes, the Ben Davies of Tottenham) so in the media section which was a fantastic viewpoint for what was a most accomplished performance against a top 6 competitor for the majority of the 90mins.

    Plaudits undoubtedly to Kane and rightly so but I'm just in awe at how fucking solid and resolute our defence was. Both wing backs worked the flank well in both assisting attacks and nullifying Liverpool's threat but the trio of Vertonghen, Alderweireld and Sanchez give us an exceptional base to work from.

    Winks should now be a mainstay in the hub of our midfield and it'll be interesting to see if this becomes a trend with Alli operating further back more regimented as by far and away his best performance this season.

    A real privilege to see close hand Poch's work and fuck me, we've got a bloody good team here folks!
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  13. kungfugrip

    kungfugrip Well-Known Member

    Ratings Received:
    +1,377 / 44 / -36
    Early goals make such a difference. Brilliant performance. Kane my MOTM simply because he is unplayable at the moment.....so powerful.

    Will be very interesting to see how Poch picks his teams when Dembele, Wanyama and Rose are all 100% fit. Lots, and I mean lots of competition for places all over the pitch given the adaptability of so many of our players.
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  14. whitesocks

    whitesocks Well-Known Member

    Ratings Received:
    +2,538 / 334 / -70
    Agree - this formation was pretty much forced on him these last 2 games.
    When MP has Wanyama, Dembele and Dier fit, then will he be so happy to hand over possession to the opponents, and have Lloris hoof the ball route 1? I don't know.

    It seems like he has stumbled over a way of playing that is very effective at Wembley, but the purists who like to see high possession, control, tika-taka etc are not going to be impressed if we persistently use this strategy.
    And other teams will defend much much better than Lpool.

    Should we play like Leicester (did), If it means we can have the title? I don't know.
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  15. scat1620

    scat1620 L'espion mal fait

    Ratings Received:
    +12,661 / 301 / -112
    If winning the title was the end result, I wouldn't care if we played like Santini's Chelsea bus-parkers all season long.
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  16. Dharmabum

    Dharmabum Well-Known Member

    Ratings Received:
    +11,250 / 290 / -92
    I did not count how many games he played in that position but the below link can verfiy that's the spot he played when he broke into the Spurs team...


    Alli is not finished yet, is still working out how best to apply his own wonderful talent but when he plays as a central midfielder – as he did when he first broke into the Spurs team and has too seldom for England – it is hard to avoid these glimpses of a potent future.
  17. whitesocks

    whitesocks Well-Known Member

    Ratings Received:
    +2,538 / 334 / -70
    It would certainly make a nice change!

    I've always thought possession and tika-taka was over rated, especially when you knew there was going to be no end product (AVB..). What Barcelona did was different, in that they were genuinely probing for openings while racking up the passes. They were toying with the opposition.

    And yet, for a great win against a side that usually raises their game against us, at a difficult ground, with key injuries, in a mad series of fixtures, it would have been nice to have absolute control of the game for periods.
    After all, we are 2nd and they are midtable. We were at home...

    I found our 30% possession alarming.
    Yet if we get alarming wins at ManU and home to Real then it is hard to make the case that MP is doing something wrong. Quite the reverse.

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