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Match Ratings Ratings vs Man City

MOTM

  • Lloris

    Votes: 24 10.9%
  • Trippier

    Votes: 4 1.8%
  • Dier

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Verts

    Votes: 35 15.9%
  • Rose

    Votes: 17 7.7%
  • Dembele

    Votes: 3 1.4%
  • Winks

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Eriksen

    Votes: 12 5.5%
  • Son

    Votes: 3 1.4%
  • Dele

    Votes: 1 0.5%
  • Kane

    Votes: 7 3.2%
  • Lamela

    Votes: 49 22.3%
  • Sissoko

    Votes: 2 0.9%
  • Davies

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Undecided

    Votes: 4 1.8%
  • None Deserved

    Votes: 59 26.8%

  • Total voters
    220

LexingtonSpurs

Well-Known Member
Aug 27, 2013
13,456
39,042
Its a big question being asked of Poch. Can we stay competitive instead of turning up for the odd big game or game against the beatables. The famed coaching methodology has gone awry. The team seems disjointed. There's very little to look to on the bench to change things and the energy has gone out of the side. I don't know what it is but we are in a poor way at the moment compared to how we have been, when at our best. This is a challenge for Poch. Players who aren't performing need to be dropped.
We are missing 3 key players - that affects how we set-up and how we play. With Wanyama, Alderweireld, and Sanchez out - it means we have no true DM. And a DM is critical to Poch's set-up - really most team's set-up.

Yes, Poch could play Dier at DM, but he clearly is not ready to trust Foyth in a 2-CB pairing.

Starting this week with Sanchez back, and soon with Wanyama back, I think we will see an uptick in our performances against all teams.
 

shelfboy68

Well-Known Member
Jun 14, 2008
14,566
19,651
There's no doubt about it that City are on a fantastic run at the moment, and I'm not saying that for sure it would have made a difference to us getting anything out of this game but there were three things that really frustrated me. Firstly it became apparent within the first 10 minutes that Sane was absolutely destroying Trippier with his pace, he had acres of space as Trippier could get nowhere near him. Poch should have seen that but he failed to do anything about it, it was a complete mismatch. Whilst Aurier has his critics I feel that he could have done a better job of nullifying the threat he was causing, he almost certainly couldn't have done much worse, it's horses for courses and it frustrated me that Poch didn't swap Aurier for Trippier when he could and should have seen that this was a complete mismatch. We may even have learned whether or not he would have been more effective in combatting pace. I lost count of the number I times I saw Sane in acres of space. It may have made no difference bringing on Aurier but we will never know because Poch didn't try it.

The other two things I was annoyed about was the fact we kept playing ourselves into real trouble at the back by putting ourselves under obvious pressure with backwards and sideways passes to and by Lloris ofor it to be played right into either of our corners by our own players only for it to be played straight back to person given the ball under the most pressure passes staring back to them in dagerouus positions as they pressed, any idiot could see it wasn't working yet we kept repeating the same mistakes and inviting more pressure.

The final thing I was annoyed about was the way we got ourselves into some good advanced positions with men over but our passing was awful in the last third and lack of foresight to pass it to a player in a better position or in open space on the few occasions we were able to was glaring and damning.

4-1 was a fair reflection of the game and it could have been worse. I feel unable to give anyone any positive ratings in this particular game including Poch who failed to try different options. Let's hope as the manager says "this is a learning curve ".
But that is the standard line that gets rolled out everytime we put in a shit performance " it's a learning curve" when does it stop being a" learning curve" the excuses have to stop.
 

Gilzeanking

Well-Known Member
May 7, 2005
6,093
5,019
T

I haven't been posting in the last few weeks, seen most of the games though and it's not been a good sight in all honesty. Every aspect is down on the last couple of years. Pressing/work rate/shape/compactness is really bad right now, we used to have a team of players who would run through brick walls for the cause, not too many of them right now. Bigger pitches like Wembley just exacerbate all that. And with the ball I'm not too impressed either... Even a good win like Stoke last weekend, in all honesty I thought some of the passages of play were so messy and scrappy it was unrecognisable to the standards set in the last few years.

A lot of work needs to be done and some need a real kick up the backside. Including the manager.

Absolutely this . I can't get my head around the numerous posters on here with the .'City are in great form ,stop fussing' line
 

JimmyG2

SC Supporter
Dec 7, 2006
15,014
20,779
But that is the standard line that gets rolled out everytime we put in a shit performance " it's a learning curve" when does it stop being a" learning curve" the excuses have to stop.
Hopefully it never does.
Especially with a young team and Manager.
You keep learning until they nail down the box.
If not you are dead already.
 

shelfboy68

Well-Known Member
Jun 14, 2008
14,566
19,651
Hopefully it never does.
Especially with a young team and Manager.
You keep learning until they nail down the box.
If not you are dead already.

But poch has been managing for around 10 years although I maybe wrong he is hardly a novice anymore and the team is not full of youngsters we have experienced international players within it so there can't be these excuses.
 

Shadydan

Well-Known Member
Jul 7, 2012
38,247
104,143
But poch has been managing for around 10 years although I maybe wrong he is hardly a novice anymore and the team is not full of youngsters we have experienced international players within it so there can't be these excuses.

Sir Alex Ferguson said himself you never stop learning and he made mistakes as a manager even in his last years.
 

shelfboy68

Well-Known Member
Jun 14, 2008
14,566
19,651
Sir Alex Ferguson said himself you never stop learning and he made mistakes as a manager even in his last years.
Yes everyone makes mistakes now and again we all do you, me and Joe bloggs but it's the same thing on a regular basis and same party line I can't abide.
Don't get me wrong he has my backing and why wouldn't he but seriously stop keep making the same mistakes so often.
 

Shadydan

Well-Known Member
Jul 7, 2012
38,247
104,143
Yes everyone makes mistakes now and again we all do you, me and Joe bloggs but it's the same thing on a regular basis and same party line I can't abide.
Don't get me wrong he has my backing and why wouldn't he but seriously stop keep making the same mistakes so often.

I'm sure if you spoke to him shelfboy68, he'd be willing to take your key advice on board.
 

JUSTINSIGNAL

Well-Known Member
Jul 10, 2008
15,980
48,500
We are missing 3 key players - that affects how we set-up and how we play. With Wanyama, Alderweireld, and Sanchez out - it means we have no true DM. And a DM is critical to Poch's set-up - really most team's set-up.

Yes, Poch could play Dier at DM, but he clearly is not ready to trust Foyth in a 2-CB pairing.

Starting this week with Sanchez back, and soon with Wanyama back, I think we will see an uptick in our performances against all teams.

This is it. I don't know why people fail to see what is so clearly the problem here.

We haven't got the squad to deal with so many injuries/suspensions to key players. We can deal with Toby out or Wanyama out at separate times. But both plus Sanchez seriously disrupts our choice of tactical set up.

Going into the match at the weekend with the inexperienced Winks and the rapidly declining Dembele in midfield was really akin to when Redknapp played Modric and Kranjcar in midfield against City many moons ago, and with very similar results.

Against such rampant teams you need players in midfield with some defensive discipline and strength to give you a foothold and we just didn't have that. And our injuries meant we didn't have much choice but to go with the two Poch opted for. Shit happens. It's not a time to start questioning Poch's credentials as a manager or certain players desire to remain at the club. Fans just need to accept we're going through a bad patch with key players being out of form or injured. We'll get over it and have a strong second half of the season. Nothing to worry about.
 

ultimateloner

Well-Known Member
Jan 25, 2004
4,539
2,149
I think our clean sheet count has fallen off the charts without TA so the ManC slaughter was always on the cards.
I expected us to lose the CM battle since without Wanyama we can't contain KDB..but what surprised me was they did so without Silva.
It's a reality check really. They were faster to every second ball.
 

JonnySpurs

SC Veteran
Jun 4, 2004
5,345
12,398
I'm late to the party on this as I dont get chance to air my views until a Monday (instead of doing work).

There's no point whatsoever in attempting to rate individual players. This wasn't about individual performances as those that did make mistakes would have only really done so because of the failure of the team as a whole.

As has been pointed out by many, City have been brilliant at times this season but they were not brilliant on Saturday, not at all. They didn't have to be. In the same way that Stoke played badly to help us smash them 5-1, we pretty much did the same for City. From kick off we looked terrified. No player in dark blue looked like they wanted the ball. Despite being able to go to Madrid and look comfortable and compete on a level with the reigning European champs, it was like our players had listened to all the pundits raving about City all season and it was ringing in their ears as they ran about the pitch, misplacing passes, mis-controlling the ball and essentially contributing to their own downfall.

I called for Aurier and Rose to start this game in the team vs city thread as I felt that Sane would tear Trippier to bits and he pretty much did as expected. How we got in at HT only 1-0 I'm not sure. Luck I suppose. That said, I thought Rose was erratic and hot headed and just not very good. Shooting from 30 yards when he could pass or cross, pushing Mangala to nearly give away what would have been a criminal penalty, just continued petulance. Rose has always been fiery but it had control before, it doesn't right now. In hindsight, Davies would have been the better option simply due to his discipline. Trippier is a good RB but I'm not sure he has the focus and frankly the cojones to start in these big games. We'll see.

My love for Dembele knows no bounds but right now he's either nowhere near fit enough or, and I hope this isn't the case, he's not going to be able to get back to his previous immaculate best because his body won't allow it. He pretty much spent the game fouling people and losing the ball. It was hard to watch. Winks is a brilliant young player, anyone calling for him to be dropped is barking up the wrong tree. With that said he epitomised the fear we were showing. For the first time he looked like a young player not ready for the big stage and we KNOW that this is not the case with Harry. He's proven many times before that he can handle the pressure of a big occasion so I'm lost as to what the problem is at the moment. I can only assume that the balance is wrong due to the injuries and suspensions and lack of match fitness in whoever is playing right now.

I have no doubts that if everyone was fit and we were playing without fear then we'd have competed with City and it would have taken their absolute brilliant best to beat us. I hope we get to prove this when they come to Wembley. Let's not forget that this was the first time Pep had beaten Poch since he became City manager and on the whole we've outplayed them with largely the same team as they had out on Saturday. For whatever reason we simply didn't come out to play and pretty much gifted every goal with some calamitous football.

I'm not worried because I know this was an anomaly but equally it's frustrating that we still have these games where we look totally out of our depth. It also strikes me that despite doing some half decent business in the summer we still can't cope when our first 11 pick up injuries. City had 42m Bernardo Silva coming off their bench. I get that we may not ever be able to do that but we need much better squad depth and that MUST start in January.
 

stevenqoz

Well-Known Member
Apr 10, 2006
2,776
553
With the injuries it may even be time to put Dier back in the midfield battle and take a chance in central defence with Foyth. Actually picked the whole line up in the Team for Man City thread. What do I know:(
 

idontgetit

Well-Known Member
Aug 21, 2011
14,404
30,804
The problem is that we used to play with a system and style that players could be moved in and out of interchangeably and still get the best out of them. We've not really played with that this year.

The weirdest thing for me is the pressing. Two seasons ago we pressed like motherfuckers. Last season we pressed but from a more controlled position. This season we just look open when we press. Spread out. Not compact in anyway. The forwards chasing down defenders just get passed around. And when we're on the ball we always seem outnumbered as well.

We've been good in the past because we were a team built from the back that defends from the front and attacks as a single unit, but not this year.
 

shelfboy68

Well-Known Member
Jun 14, 2008
14,566
19,651
I'm late to the party on this as I dont get chance to air my views until a Monday (instead of doing work).

There's no point whatsoever in attempting to rate individual players. This wasn't about individual performances as those that did make mistakes would have only really done so because of the failure of the team as a whole.

As has been pointed out by many, City have been brilliant at times this season but they were not brilliant on Saturday, not at all. They didn't have to be. In the same way that Stoke played badly to help us smash them 5-1, we pretty much did the same for City. From kick off we looked terrified. No player in dark blue looked like they wanted the ball. Despite being able to go to Madrid and look comfortable and compete on a level with the reigning European champs, it was like our players had listened to all the pundits raving about City all season and it was ringing in their ears as they ran about the pitch, misplacing passes, mis-controlling the ball and essentially contributing to their own downfall.

I called for Aurier and Rose to start this game in the team vs city thread as I felt that Sane would tear Trippier to bits and he pretty much did as expected. How we got in at HT only 1-0 I'm not sure. Luck I suppose. That said, I thought Rose was erratic and hot headed and just not very good. Shooting from 30 yards when he could pass or cross, pushing Mangala to nearly give away what would have been a criminal penalty, just continued petulance. Rose has always been fiery but it had control before, it doesn't right now. In hindsight, Davies would have been the better option simply due to his discipline. Trippier is a good RB but I'm not sure he has the focus and frankly the cojones to start in these big games. We'll see.

My love for Dembele knows no bounds but right now he's either nowhere near fit enough or, and I hope this isn't the case, he's not going to be able to get back to his previous immaculate best because his body won't allow it. He pretty much spent the game fouling people and losing the ball. It was hard to watch. Winks is a brilliant young player, anyone calling for him to be dropped is barking up the wrong tree. With that said he epitomised the fear we were showing. For the first time he looked like a young player not ready for the big stage and we KNOW that this is not the case with Harry. He's proven many times before that he can handle the pressure of a big occasion so I'm lost as to what the problem is at the moment. I can only assume that the balance is wrong due to the injuries and suspensions and lack of match fitness in whoever is playing right now.

I have no doubts that if everyone was fit and we were playing without fear then we'd have competed with City and it would have taken their absolute brilliant best to beat us. I hope we get to prove this when they come to Wembley. Let's not forget that this was the first time Pep had beaten Poch since he became City manager and on the whole we've outplayed them with largely the same team as they had out on Saturday. For whatever reason we simply didn't come out to play and pretty much gifted every goal with some calamitous football.

I'm not worried because I know this was an anomaly but equally it's frustrating that we still have these games where we look totally out of our depth. It also strikes me that despite doing some half decent business in the summer we still can't cope when our first 11 pick up injuries. City had 42m Bernardo Silva coming off their bench. I get that we may not ever be able to do that but we need much better squad depth and that MUST start in January.
You have been a fan long enough to know that the club will not buy in January the usual line will get peddled and they will struggle on until the summer.
 

JonnySpurs

SC Veteran
Jun 4, 2004
5,345
12,398
You have been a fan long enough to know that the club will not buy in January the usual line will get peddled and they will struggle on until the summer.

We'll see. Poch has already come out publicly to say we need to start in January so maybe we'll help him out and actually do that this time. But yes, I hear you, I won't be getting my hopes up.
 

slartibartfast

Grunge baby forever
Oct 21, 2012
18,320
33,955
There's no doubt about it that City are on a fantastic run at the moment, and I'm not saying that for sure it would have made a difference to us getting anything out of this game but there were three things that really frustrated me. Firstly it became apparent within the first 10 minutes that Sane was absolutely destroying Trippier with his pace, he had acres of space as Trippier could get nowhere near him. Poch should have seen that but he failed to do anything about it, it was a complete mismatch. Whilst Aurier has his critics I feel that he could have done a better job of nullifying the threat he was causing, he almost certainly couldn't have done much worse, it's horses for courses and it frustrated me that Poch didn't swap Aurier for Trippier when he could and should have seen that this was a complete mismatch. We may even have learned whether or not he would have been more effective in combatting pace. I lost count of the number I times I saw Sane in acres of space. It may have made no difference bringing on Aurier but we will never know because Poch didn't try it.

The other two things I was annoyed about was the fact we kept playing ourselves into real trouble at the back by putting ourselves under obvious pressure with backwards and sideways passes to and by Lloris ofor it to be played right into either of our corners by our own players only for it to be played straight back to person given the ball under the most pressure passes staring back to them in dagerouus positions as they pressed, any idiot could see it wasn't working yet we kept repeating the same mistakes and inviting more pressure.

The final thing I was annoyed about was the way we got ourselves into some good advanced positions with men over but our passing was awful in the last third and lack of foresight to pass it to a player in a better position or in open space on the few occasions we were able to was glaring and damning.

4-1 was a fair reflection of the game and it could have been worse. I feel unable to give anyone any positive ratings in this particular game including Poch who failed to try different options. Let's hope as the manager says "this is a learning curve ".
Great post. Summed up everything that annoyed or does annoy me. Especially the continuous throwing of the ball to players who are blatantly boxed in and under pressure. How any manager/coach cant see that you're getting yourself into a muddle and its just a matter of time before the opp score is truly baffling. Equally baffling is that a international player a) keeps fkin doing it and b) none of the defenders turn around and shout 'ffs will you stop trying to give me the ball when I'm clearly bloody boxed in and have nowhere to go? We're gonna concede if you keep doing it'.
Boot it up the pitch 2 or 3 times (would help if Lloris could a) get it over the halfway line and b) keep it on the pitch) and they'll drop back a bit, they'll have too (they cant all be in our half and theirs), then you can start trying to play out from our box to theirs. Not rocket science is it? Surely its better City have to work from edge of their own goal area to the edge of our goal area rather than us losing the ball in our half??? Makes no sense to me at all.
I dont care what Poch told them to do at the back, you are professional footballers and surely you can make a decision when something clearly isnt working. Just throwing it out to marked up players and saying thats what the coach told me to do is pathetic.
We are missing a lot of key players and most were well off form but what we did there was frankly idiotic. Put ourselves under pressure.
Why you wouldn't try the same tactics that worked so well against RM BD and Liverpool is again truly baffling.
 

Bus-Conductor

SC Supporter
Oct 19, 2004
39,837
50,713
The more I've watched and thought about this game, the more disappointed I am about Pochettino's approach to it. He did did something similar last year up there and learnt nothing. He also did something similar at Arsenal, who also went 433 against us and handed us our arses on a platter.

And then juxtapose this with the tactics he deployed against Liverpool and Real Madrid where he went with a totally different approach(s), deeper, more compact and counter attacked so successfully, it's absolutely baffling why he chose the approach he did.

And when you combine that with the personnel choices and the formation/structure it just heaps on naive insult to counter intuitive injury. And at this stage of Pochettino's development and evolution as a coach it's really, really fucking piss poor and extremely disappointing.

I don't think this was strongest or even most in form City we could have played either. And for people saying "well, we are missing key defensive players such as TA and Wanyama" well, surely then, you adjust your tactical approach accordingly, and that should have made it even more logical to adopt a more conservative and pragmatic plan?

Piss poor from Pochettino. Really fucking piss poor.
 

stevenqoz

Well-Known Member
Apr 10, 2006
2,776
553
On the Trippier mismatch it would have timely to not only bring on Aurier but also put the generally limited Sissoko just in front of him. Its called defending as a unit and the times those two have played together they do at least seem tight. On the day Sane was largely unplayable Trippier in particular needing a lasoo to catch him. The physically stronger two mentioned would have put him over the touchline a few times just to make him think;)
 

shelfboy68

Well-Known Member
Jun 14, 2008
14,566
19,651
The more I've watched and thought about this game, the more disappointed I am about Pochettino's approach to it. He did did something similar last year up there and learnt nothing. He also did something similar at Arsenal, who also went 433 against us and handed us our arses on a platter.

And then juxtapose this with the tactics he deployed against Liverpool and Real Madrid where he went with a totally different approach(s), deeper, more compact and counter attacked so successfully, it's absolutely baffling why he chose the approach he did.

And when you combine that with the personnel choices and the formation/structure it just heaps on naive insult to counter intuitive injury. And at this stage of Pochettino's development and evolution as a coach it's really, really fucking piss poor and extremely disappointing.

I don't think this was strongest or even most in form City we could have played either. And for people saying "well, we are missing key defensive players such as TA and Wanyama" well, surely then, you adjust your tactical approach accordingly, and that should have made it even more logical to adopt a more conservative and pragmatic plan?

Piss poor from Pochettino. Really fucking piss poor.
CL games apart I think both poch and the team have been below par this season which seems strange after two fantastic seasons.
 
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