Ratings vs Man Utd

MOM

  • Lloris

    Votes: 288 76.2%
  • Chiriches

    Votes: 7 1.9%
  • Fazio

    Votes: 31 8.2%
  • Verts

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Davies

    Votes: 9 2.4%
  • Townsend

    Votes: 3 0.8%
  • Mason

    Votes: 6 1.6%
  • Stambouli

    Votes: 5 1.3%
  • Eriksen

    Votes: 3 0.8%
  • Chadli

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Kane

    Votes: 23 6.1%
  • Lamela

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Dembele

    Votes: 1 0.3%
  • No one

    Votes: 1 0.3%
  • Undecided

    Votes: 1 0.3%

  • Total voters
    378

stevenqoz

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 10, 2006
Messages
2,626
Lloris 10 How lucky are we to have secured his services....real test is to keep him!
Vlad 6.5 Plays with a large pinch of naievity....still smarter than Walker
Fazio 8.5 Immense once again....our best header of the ball for quite a while
Vert 8 Up for it today against the equally arrogant RVP....did well
Davies 7.5 Likeable simplicity....knows he is there to defend, unlike......
Stambouli 6.5 Fair effort considering the early card...not a starter
Mason 6.5 Still getting back from sprained ankle....reasonable
Townsend 7 Put in a good shift to help Vlad...best game for a while
Chadli 7 Thought he stepped up from Leicester...hard to know what motivates him
Kane 8 You get what is on the label....lots of outsiders singing his praises
Eriksen 7.5 In amongst it....needs to work on a few smiles
Dembele 7 Got stuck in as we got on top
Lamela 6.5 Buzzed around in little time on field

A good bounce back after the Leicester fade-out. Quite understand the changes....Poch being smart across a busy period plus ensuring we don't overdo it with the returning Walker or still maturing likes of Bentaleb.
Rode our luck first period but hey we have probably the worlds best keeper playing for us. The opposition swarmed and dominated for long periods but then they are Manchester Utd! Thought we dealt with RVP and his forward mates well...the born again wing back Young being their most effective player. Who said you can't play 3 5 2 in the EPL? They did it very well for 45 minutes.
At half time Poch clearly said that if we stay deep we will concede so up we charged and started winning the midfield ...putting their defence on the back foot in the process. Dembele won and held the ball well....Lamela's energy also a plus as we got on top. Across this period Poch will rest and shuffle....worked well today. In the medium term IMO our best midfield is
.......Lamela Mason Bentalab Chadi
........................Eriksen
in what is a 4 4 1 1. Neither Paulinho of Capoue merit a spot....the latter slows our play down to a crawl....any defensive protection not being worth the price of him in the central midfield. See Walker and Bentaleb in for Chelsea....lets hope we have a go like we did today
 

EastLondonYid

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 26, 2010
Messages
5,348
Can't believe we rested Walker and Lamela for the MU game instead of the Leicester match.
MU the last few weeks have been stronger down their left and yesterday 1st half completely ran riot down that side, Lamela and Walker would have been my choice all day....lady luck and poor finishing helped us avoid a 1st half mauling.
We hang in there and almost nicked it...i think we are a very ordinary side that fortunately has had the rub of the green lately and a WC keeper....alot of work needed ahead,we can't get lucky every week, only the Everton game have we played well lately, but i do admire the way we hang in and somehow win games we shouldn't.
 

beats1

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 22, 2010
Messages
26,206
To anyone who gives Chiriches a higher rating than Davies:

Did you notice how Young was consistently causing problems on our right side whereas the threat from United on our left side was virtually non-existent apart from that one Mata chance?
Mata isnt a winger, he is a number 10 that cuts in and drifts whereas young has always hugged the touchline and attacked the fullback
 

THFCSPURS19

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 6, 2013
Messages
32,673
Mata isnt a winger, he is a number 10 that cuts in and drifts whereas young has always hugged the touchline and attacked the fullback
I wasn't comparing the two. I was talking about the chance where Mata was IN THE BOX and there was a cross from our left side from Rafael (I think) and Mata fluffed it.

I don't know where you've identified me suggesting that Mata is a winger.
 

dudu

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 28, 2011
Messages
2,640
It was obvious that LVG wanted to hit us hard and try and win the game in the first half, they could/should of done so. That was evidenced by the fact that he made no changes playing not even 48 hours later. He would of expected that attack to cause us plenty of problems and that they did. The massive problem he had, obviously, was that they couldn't capitalise on it and they struggled in the second half as their intensity dropped - probably in part to fatigue and our superior fitness, but also we worked harder off the ball and definitely had the better of the second half and conceivably should of won it with Mason's fantastic chance.

We couldn't cope in the first half though. They outnumbered us in the middle and their wing backs were really causing us problems, well a lot more Young, but we struggled hugely with this.

Even with this tactical deficiency/disadvantage we still didn't press anywhere near well enough and this only compounded the matter.

I know the likes of Kane play with no fear but it felt a lot of them were star struck or something. I felt we paid them too much respect and we looked nervous making several mistakes that allowed them to construct dangerous attacks.

We were exceptionally lucky to come in level at half time. The second half was much improved and all of a sudden it didn't look like we're waiting to get beat, but we were competing and doing the basic things a lot better. It became quite scrappy in stages but it was a scrap we were winning. And the chance for Mason, created by Kane, would of been a beautiful goal, indeed it was a beautiful move. The subs should of been made earlier though as we really dominated the last 15 minutes or so with United making foul after foul, they were hanging on even though we wern't banging the door down in terms of real clear cut chances, it was most definitely wave after wave of pressure and they couldn't cope. Earlier changes might have won us the game.

Its quite extraordinary when you think about it though. You look at the experience United had on that pitch today compared to us. The difference is vast. Only MCnair for them isn't an experienced footballer. Be it age, lack of experience in the PL, or any top flight League for that matter, its some difference. Worth mentioning IMO.

People are calling us lucky, and we have rode our luck in the last two games, but you can't deny we have something about us. Its not just luck in the other games we've won late on etc, we're developing as a team under Pochettino and we're getting stronger I think. We're picking points up at some rate and there feels like there's a lot more to come.

Overall I'm encouraged and another point against Chelsea would be a great points haul over the festive period considering the fixtures.

Individual stuff:

Lloris 7.5 running out of superlatives.

Vlad 6.5 the last ditch defending surely saved us at least one goal, that was quite excellent. Why he kept showing Young on to his stronger foot I have no idea. That caused us real problems.

Fazio 7 one minute he looks like a rock, the next I have my heart in my mouth. I remember him chesting the ball down when surely a big header up the pitch, what he's best at, was called for in that situation. They duly nicked it and another dangerous attack was mounted. He did win a shit load of headers though, as you'd expect and had a couple of tasty efforts on goal to.

Vertonghen 6
was ok I thought, could of been a bit more commanding? Did he give away a free kick against Mata that led to something, can't remember exactly.

Davies 6.5 I know many think he was very good today. I wouldn't go that far. Was reliable for the most part but I just felt he could of done better in some situations. I just remember having that feeling a few times. I like him though and would pick him over Rose. He's just a better footballer albeit he hasn't the pace and power of Danny.

Stambouli 6 really struggled with Mason to come to terms with the midfield in the first half, but being out numbered always means its an up hill battle. Improved in the second half though and showed some nice touches I thought.

Mason 6 same as above really. Lost the ball a few times but I like his bite and thrust. Good run when Kane puts him through but he has to at least work the keeper there. It was a huge chance really and given how limp United were starting to look it probably would of won us the game. Needs to do better in terms of possession though. Yes he's trying more things than others but needs to look after the ball a bit better.

Townsend 6.5 the first twenty minutes I found myself biting my tongue with frustration but then he became brighter. Lovely clipped through ball into Kane, who should of done better, and offered us some real thrust down that right side of the pitch. Couple of decent efforts on goal but his decision making still doesn't overly impress me. There's no doubt he has talent, whether he possess the footballing brain to accompany it is another thing all together. Overall an improvement, but I still wouldn't be starting him regularly in the league until his off the ball work improves.

Eriksen 6 he should of been showing more desire to drop deeper in the first half to help the other two out, who were being horribly overrun. Like the others, and the team collectively, he improved in the second half and was growing in influence. Still not a great day by his high standards.

Chadli 5.5 thought he offered very little in truth. There was one moment were he got out muscled by Rafael I think, with a high ball sailing down that left side. For such a big and athletic guy he should be bossing it. Needs to be more imposing and its a bit perplexing as to why he's so soft. He's good technically, has a bit of pace, and a real eye for goal. He needs to man up a bit if he wants to take his game to the next level. Its there for him to be a hit in this League if he wants it. But he's drifting out of games because he's not embracing the physical stuff enough IMO.

Kane 7.5 MOTM thought he worked ever so hard and his pressing was fantastic. He's just a pure nuisance who won't give up, he understands the runs to make and when to apply the pressure. Kane has a bit of everything - intelligence, guile, strength, even powerful runs demonstrated by the chance he created for Mason today, a threat in the air, and of course his goal return so far. But his work for the team and his desire is his biggest quality IMO. To have that relentless drive spear heading your attack, in conjunction with the above skill set, is priceless. The way he fought to win the ball back, charged forward with four United players around him and then slips the most sumptuous through ball to Mason was a thing of beauty. It was just rude of Mason not to finish that. Looks like we have our main forward now - one of our own, fantastic.


Dembele/lamela - thought the former did well when he came on. His power and strength only increased our domination. Lamela didn't get much opportunity to influence anything in terms of attacking intent.

Agree with what you are saying about Chadli in that he needs to be more physical but i cant agree he gets a lower score than any of our other midfielders - he gave the ball away i think the least amount of any player on the pitch for the time he was on it - which in a game where neither team were able to keep the ball properly is not something to ignore.
 

mpickard2087

Fantastic Member
Joined
Jun 13, 2008
Messages
19,366
I don't necessarily agree with the conclusion that we were only struggling because we were getting overrun in midfield. The majority of the chances they did have were because of simple balls played over a defence that had switched off.

Falcao chance early on - Makes a run in behind, straight past Chiriches who doesn't react.
Rooney and Van Persie both had chances from balls clipped over our centre backs who were slow to react.
Van Persie 2nd half chance came about from Davies sleeping when a low percentage ball was played in behind him.

Some of these were just basic lack of concentration at times. Thankfully things were a bit more solid in the second half, but although the midfield was chasing the game a lot it wasn't always the cause of the problems. Basic defensive errors were often to blame.
 

beats1

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 22, 2010
Messages
26,206
I wasn't comparing the two. I was talking about the chance where Mata was IN THE BOX and there was a cross from our left side from Rafael (I think) and Mata fluffed it.

I don't know where you've identified me suggesting that Mata is a winger.
Err you said that they created nothing from their left side whilst constantly causing us issues on the right because of the full backs

that was pretty much because Young was playing more like a winger rather than a fullback or wingback and was constantly closer to the fullback(chiriches) whereas Rafeal/Valencia was a bit deeper and Mata was in front of him who kept cutting in from the left
 

beats1

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 22, 2010
Messages
26,206
I don't necessarily agree with the conclusion that we were only struggling because we were getting overrun in midfield. The majority of the chances they did have were because of simple balls played over a defence that had switched off.

Falcao chance early on - Makes a run in behind, straight past Chiriches who doesn't react.
Rooney and Van Persie both had chances from balls clipped over our centre backs who were slow to react.
Van Persie 2nd half chance came about from Davies sleeping when a low percentage ball was played in behind him.

Some of these were just basic lack of concentration at times. Thankfully things were a bit more solid in the second half, but although the midfield was chasing the game a lot it wasn't always the cause of the problems. Basic defensive errors were often to blame.
I agree, the game against Swansea we weren't overrun in the DM area but they kept getting between the fullbacks and centre backs

They did better than the Swansea match covering the threat of the strikers getting behind the fullbacks but worse with the strikers getting in between
 

Wheeler Dealer

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 29, 2011
Messages
3,439
Everyone seems to be raving about Davies, is that because they don't like Rose? He played ok today, was decent in places going forward and defensively, however, he got absolutely done a couple of times today where he was caught flat footed.
He has an uncanny knack of getting stuck in no mans land too often for my likeing. His reading of the game and positional sense are questionable. He also struggles to play a forward pass to one of his own team mates.. Other these concerns, he's an absolute steal for £10m!!
 

wishkah

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 27, 2011
Messages
3,096
If you watch lloris save against Young, it's his footwork that really impresses me. Kind of like how a squash player gets back to the T, he moved so quickly before springing to make the save. Truely impressive
 

Wellspurs

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 9, 2006
Messages
6,379
Some bookies offer odds on horse racing "without the favourite"... I think we are going to have to have these polls "Without Lloris"?
 

dannythomas

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 17, 2004
Messages
3,342
I just watched a re run of the match and I think we perfomed pretty well. Townsend was busy and effective in the first half and we did have a few half chances though clearly United had more . But the second half was a different story, particularly the last 20 minutes where we were completely dominant. United are a good team and we were in my view deserving of the draw.
I think criticism of Townsend, Fazio , Chiriches and Davies is largely unfair. Chiriches saved us with a superb blocking challenge preventing a certain goal and Fazio was lion hearted at both ends of the pitch.
Lloris made 2 or 3 great saves but he did get lucky with the Van Persie save . For me Kane was our stand out player ,strong, clever and the pass to put Mason in on goal was perfection.
 

sloth

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 7, 2005
Messages
8,994
Utd are like a deluxe West Ham. For whatever reason - perhaps weakness in defence and midfield? - LVG has clearly decided the best way to take advantage of his formidable front four (RVP, Falcao, Rooney, Mata), is to have five across the middle and just get the defence to pump it forward, the idea being that superior numbers in the middle third means the knock-downs are collected, and if they're not we have possession in tight areas and deep in our own third. If they do get possession in our half then we're in trouble with their forwards and our high press.

Poch seemed to have his own tactic for exploiting their three at the back and it involved pairing nippy left-and-right footed Townsend with the decent passing of Chiriches. I guess the plan was to exploit the space behind Ashley Young and get at their inexperienced CBs, On the other side we had Davies and Chadli, both of whom were less likely to get behind the Utd midfield, but also less likely to be got at.

Anyway, whatever Poch's plans in the first half they didn't work, whereas Utd's did. Not for the first time either that those tactics have given us problems in recent seasons; as I said west Ham have enjoyed some success with them too. Time and again we got caught with five six players stranded up the pitch and haring back while Utd out-numbered our rear-guard, time and again we were undone by a simply punt or chip forward.

Second half poch showed that without even changing the personnel with a few small adjustments the tactic can be effectively nullified, in short we played a bit deeper, we got the lines to squeeze together a little better, mainly by ensuring our AM3 dropped back slightly, and our CM2 sat a bit more and all of a sudden Utd's long-balls (they're the second biggest deployer of the Long-Ball in the PL btw, after Burnley) looked aimless, and their wing-backs became superfluous. For a while it was scrappy, but gradually we wrested control of the game and at the same time our superior fitness started to kick in. By the end we were all wishing for another ten minutes, even the Spurs players who looked full of running still.

Plenty of positives then, but also cause for concern, in particular the ease with which we nullified Utd's one dimensional play after the break illustrated the stupidity of our approach in the first half. To be charitable I'd say it's because we haven't yet got the clever leaders on the pitch to call the changes when they're warranted, or perhaps it's symptomatic of early days in the Poch regime, I'm sure others would be less generous though. On the plus side the team did show it could adapt if given the right instructions and Poch showed that he wasn't a tactical stuck-in-the-mud, and I'd prefer to end a match the way we did than to start it that way and finish lamely. In short the team gets a B grade over all, with perhaps a B+ for Effort, but we need to show greater on-pitch smarts, the team, or the coach has to find away to change things around without requiring the 15 minutes in the dressing room at HT.
 
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