Ratings vs Manchester United

Discussion in 'Spurs Chat' started by Bulletspur, Oct 28, 2017.

MOTM

  1. Lloris

    1 vote(s)
    0.6%
  2. Toby

    16 vote(s)
    9.1%
  3. Dier

    32 vote(s)
    18.3%
  4. Verts

    23 vote(s)
    13.1%
  5. Aurier

    2 vote(s)
    1.1%
  6. Davies

    20 vote(s)
    11.4%
  7. Winks

    42 vote(s)
    24.0%
  8. Eriksen

    10 vote(s)
    5.7%
  9. Sissoko

    1 vote(s)
    0.6%
  10. Dele

    1 vote(s)
    0.6%
  11. Son

    2 vote(s)
    1.1%
  12. Dembele

    2 vote(s)
    1.1%
  13. Llorente

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  14. Undecided

    23 vote(s)
    13.1%
  1. Colonel_Klinck

    Colonel_Klinck Well-Known Member

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    If we’d played Sanchez we’d of had to sacrifice a midfield player. We dominated the midfield on the whole. All 3 of our defensive players fucked up for that goal. Shit luck they all did at the same time.

    I voted Davies but could of easily voted for Dier or Verts.
     
  2. dannythomas

    dannythomas Well-Known Member

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    I don’t think Son should have gone off. Fine to bring on Llorente but he is there to hold up the play and provide knock downs / lay offs for someone else. He is not a good enough player any more to provide a threat on his own. Llorente for Sissoko and in the later stages Dembele for Winks who was exhausted by 70 minutes. Or even for Eriksen who was poor other than his pass for Dele to miss a sitter.

    Vertonghen, Davies ( especially for his quick thinking clearance when Lloris spilled the ball ) , Winks ( until he ran out of gas ) and Dier ( until he fell asleep for the goal ) were contenders but I give it to Verts. Great season he is having.
     
  3. Bulletspur

    Bulletspur The Reasonable Advocate

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    Yet he was not the worst on the pitch.......
     
  4. jonnyp

    jonnyp Well-Known Member

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    He should've done better.
     
  5. ultimateloner

    ultimateloner Well-Known Member

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    Sissoko can't play against a high press.
    We had a defensive lapse and that was it. I think there wasn't much between either team. Both were toothless.
     
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  6. Colonel_Klinck

    Colonel_Klinck Well-Known Member

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    Can’t fault his effort. The sad fact is he just isn’t technically good enough. His first touch is shocking, he looks like he’s juggling a hand grenade with the ball at his feet. He isn’t the worst signing ever but he is the worst when price tag is added to the equation. I’d also snap any clubs hand off if they offered £20m
     
  7. spursram

    spursram Well-Known Member

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    The Big Games.
    Eriksen and Winks.
    One is the Apprentice looking more like the Master.
    One is the Master looking more like the Apprentice.
    The Big Games,
     
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  8. kendoddsdadsdogsdead

    kendoddsdadsdogsdead Active Member

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    Should of stuck his head on it imo. Would of been an easier finish
     
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  9. spids

    spids Active Member

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    Martial ran off Vertonghen. His mistake more than Dier's IMO.
     
  10. spids

    spids Active Member

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    I thought most of our players were below par. The defenders played pretty well for 81 minutes. Apart from that everyone was a 6 or a 7. Eriksen is in a real dip at present. Also don't understand why Poch rested Sanchez .... maybe he thought Mourinho knew how to 'play him' after his comments following the Europa League final last season? If so that is weak management as Sanchez should have been looking to prove a point.
     
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  11. doctor stefan Freud

    doctor stefan Freud Well-Known Member

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    Thank you, Lord Vader
     
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  12. Shadydan

    Shadydan Well-Known Member

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    He was injured apparently.
     
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  13. Bus-Conductor

    Bus-Conductor SC Supporter

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    Margin Call

    For eighty minutes I enjoyed that game very much. It's wasn't a fun fest, it wasn't open or thrilling in an attacking way, it was two good teams, not giving an inch, fighting for inches (I loved Mourinho's post match quote "two teams fighting for every ball like it was the last of their career").

    Sissoko aside, I think the team selection and tactics were pretty good from Poch, I'd have been very tempted to start Dembele in the centre of the CM3 or start Sanchez in the back 3 and have Dier anchoring centrally with Winks and Eriksen in a CM3.

    This is a very good Utd team, managed by one of the best, pragmatic and tactically astute managers, who had been beaten by a minnow the week before.They were always going to be fired up and sure enough they came out fighting, pressing hard and for ten minutes we struggled to cope. Then Winks got hold of the ball, and instead of treating it like a hot potato, he composed himself, dropped a shoulder, dribbled past two of their players and then passed the ball to a team mate ahead of him. The display of composed confidence was the tiny germ from which our gradual complete control of that first half seemed to grow. Winks was superb that first half, the metronomic instigator.

    Dier dropping back into the back three after 10 minutes also helped us tactically, now we had a better structure, Eriksen had had a terrible first ten minutes, not coping with the press well, but gradually he settled down and he and Winks started seeing more ball and we became more and more dominant as that first half wore on, completely controlling the midfield dynamics, our midfield with now with a numerical and progressive intent advantage.

    I think Alli has actually been the best player in our last two games (even against West Ham when he was a bit careless at times) and I think he was having a another good game until he let himself get a bit rattled, after that he wasn't quite as effective, which was a shame.

    Second half started a little bit like the first, with Utd on the front foot, and the next 15 minutes were frantic and there were a couple of desperate moments where they got into dangerous areas, but danger was averted, we defended those situations pretty well (Dier and Davies particularly) and we gradually edged our way back.

    I think I can understand the rationale of Poch's thinking re the subs and timing of them. We had lost some control, and he was probably thinking Dembele might help us stabilise and regain control and Son had become a bit peripheral and erratic, and he maybe thought that Llorente might give us a focal point and hold the ball a little better. Personally I thought the Llorente sub was flawed as Son was at least working hard without the ball, offered a bit of pace on the counter, and in a game like this that could be useful, and it's not like we were getting past full backs and banging in cross after cross either. Llorente effectively offered us nothing game changing. Neither sub did really. The other problem was that between the time of Poch seeing what was happening (us struggling for control) and making the decision to make the changes, and then making them, we'd actually just began to exert some control again and the subs actually disrupted this a little.

    That said I thought we did compose ourselves and the latter part of the second half we had regained some control. I thought Eriksen really struggled under the early first half press but got better and better and was very good second half. Nobody on the pitch saw more of the ball than him, and second half he took up the baton from Winks and everything we did started to flow through him, and inevitably it was Eriksen who played the pass of the game, unfortunately Alli's clever run wasn't matched by his finish, and not for the first time this season he got the finish all wrong.

    Just as I thought the game was going to fade to a fairly equitable draw, two good teams stifling each other in a tough tactical encounter, it suddenly didn't. I think you can pick out marginal mistakes by all three CB's in the piece, but I genuinely think they are all marginal, and that goal was more about what they did, more than what we didn't. As soon as Martial came on I said "he worries me". Such a good player to bring on, shitloads of pace but also some footballing brains and technique. His run was clever, not vertical but diagonal, dissecting two CB's leaving both in a kind of netherland. Should Alderweireld have challenged Lukaku? Maybe, but he probably figured he wasn't winning the header as it was Lukaku's side and they were running back towards Utd's end, so perhaps backed off thinking he'd try and catch the second ball, if it works it's good reading, but it doesn't so you can say that's the first margin call that goes wrong, then Martial gets himself cleverly between Vertonghen and Dier. Vertonghen probably thinks he lets Martial go past him because we play offside, it's what we do, but Dier has drifted a bit deeper, Martial has clocked this and stays right side of Dier until the ball is knocked on. This was second chance to avert the danger, in real time I was wanting Dier just to attack that second ball before or as it bounces, he seems to let it bounce and once he does that he's out of it. Even then there's a third chance as Vertonghen actually flies in to block, and if Martial doesn't hit it into the ground, Vertonghen probably gets the block, but instead it bounces up and over Vertonghen's outstretched leg.

    It was harsh on us, especially Dier who'd been outstanding for the rest of the game.

    It was Lukaku getting the perfect knock on that almost accidentally took out three CB's, and Martial very cleverly arcing his run to get onto it and finishing well, if a little fortunately that did for us as much as those margin calls IMO.

    This is the difference that we are struggling to compete with. Chelsea can bring on Willian, Pedro, Batshuyai etc etc. ManC can bring on any number of outstanding offensive players. ManU can bring on Martial, Mata (and more when fit) we had Llorente or Nkoudou as offensive options.

    I enjoyed this game for 80 minutes. It wasn't an end to end rip snorting goal fest. Just two decent, well coached teams going at it. I don't begrudge Mourinho his pragmatism, despite his resources, he's not obliged to entertain, he's obliged to win, and win he generally does.

    It really wasn't long ago when we were going to OT, having 25% of the ball, camping in our third and still losing 3-0. We now go up there, with a squad worth about 30% of theirs, have 55% of the ball, territorial advantage and compete, giving as or more than we get. The difference is marginal. And that's why I wouldn't swap Poch for Mourinho. Because I'm pretty sure if we could bring on a 50m forward the margin would favour us.

    Individual

    Lloris - Couple of poor kicks and made a real mess of a shot that Davies had to bail him out of. He seems as susceptible to big game pressure as anyone in our team.

    Aurier - The only area he's superior to Trippier is physicality and tenacity. Sometimes those are handy qualities, but sometimes his decision making is very suspect offensively and defensively. There was a through ball in the second half he tried to play that he got horribly wrong and over hit, which I'm pretty sure Trippier would have played perfectly. Defensively he was pretty sound overall, offensively less so.

    TA - Pretty decent for the most part, couple of iffy moments, the goal being one of them.

    Dier - I thought he was really good all game, bar the goal.

    Vertonghen - Decent game, maybe goal aside.

    Davies - Our first choice left back for me now. Massively improved and had a pretty good game today again.

    Winks - If our gradual control of that first half was compared to evolution of human kind, then the Big Bang moment can be traced back to the moment when amidst the early chaotic gaseous cosmos, Winks calmly takes the ball, lifts his head, steps past two Utd presshounds and cooly plays the ball to a team mate. For the next forty minutes our galaxy spun round his effervescent embryonic sun. Faded a little, but considering there was no DM out there to hold his hand, he did a bloody good job under such a stern examination. I'm giving him my MOTM. When the going was hot, he was cool.

    Sissoko - His work rate has never been an issue for me. And, like any player at this level he can produce the odd moment of usefulness, but for me he is just nowhere near good enough, technically, intelligence wise, for this level of football. I think it is a travesty that we have not integrated and developed Onomah - and Poch has had the opportunity - or even that we haven't signed players to play that role. It was clear to some of us that none of our existing CM's were ideal for the type of role we are now asking Sissoko to play, including Sissoko.

    Eriksen - First ten minutes just couldn't do anything right. Gradually improved and eventually was the best player out there second half, seeing more of the ball than any player on the pitch, was starting to be involved in everything we did, taking over Wink's metronomic role, and playing a wonderful pass for Alli.

    Alli - I thought he started the game really brightly, looked up for it, purposeful, but this is where his temperament has got to evolve, because Utd rattled him, and once they did his A game disappeared. He become erratic and his decisions become less reliable.

    Son - He worked hard without the ball, but couldn't provide that focal hub that we really needed on a day like today.
     
    Last edited: Oct 28, 2017
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  14. coys200

    coys200 Well-Known Member

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    Is anyone else slightly disappointed in Aurier .I was expecting him to be quicker and more explosive going forward.I really thought he was an upgrade on walker or at least like for like. But he certainly doesn’t seem to have walkers lung bursting runs in his armoury. I really believe walker-peters will end up better than both of them.
     
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  15. spursfast

    spursfast Active Member

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    346
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    +267 / 77 / -9
    i read somwhere sanchez had slight inj...
     
  16. Francis Gibbs

    Francis Gibbs Well-Known Member

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    Dier was motm for me ... everyone was alright no more.

    Yet again lack of quality from the bench hurts us
     
  17. cliff jones

    cliff jones Well-Known Member

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    Called it, not that it was difficult, but decent contact from Alli and it would have been different.

    Clearly something in this lack of self belief thing, away at the bigger teams. The scores prove it and you could see it in some of our play particularly at the beginning of both halves.

    Eriksen embodied this but recovered to grip the game without the reward his persistence deserved, Alli does toe it in and Eriksen gets many more votes than he's got as things panned out.

    Pleased with all performances bar Hugo, shame the back three all fck up in their own ways for the goal. In these close tactical encounters one mistake makes the difference.

    At 88 mins last Sunday we were up, two defeats without our talisman later and we are down. Who's next? Bollox. They really knacker us out.

    Coys.
     
  18. Spurs72

    Spurs72 Don't Call It A Comeback

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    20 People gave Eric Dier the damn MOTM, are you 20 smoking, who do you think did not cut Martial off from getting to the ball on which he scored, it was Dier, Dier is the reason we are looking at a 0-1 loss instead of a 0-0 tie , or call me silly maybe we could have even knicked it.
     
    Last edited: Oct 29, 2017
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  19. coys200

    coys200 Well-Known Member

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    Not sure why dele didn’t head that chance was pretty straight forward. And vertonghen was a bit unlucky. Actually gets to martial,who scuffs it and bobbles over jan leg and in.
     
  20. mpickard2087

    mpickard2087 Fantastic Member

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    What is there really to say about the game... It was very close, with almost nothing between the teams for the vast majority and we more than held our own in the game. Both sides put a lot of intensity into it and defences were on top - attacking play and quality was at a premium. However we committed one big mistake (or two or three smaller errors on the bounce to be precise), and yet again I find myself saying that at the top level that is all it takes. All three centre backs will look at the goal and think they can do their jobs better, much better in some cases. At the top it is decided by fine margins, if your whole defence fails in a passage of play you've got no chance.

    As I said in the match thread, it's another occasion where we cant feel hard done by. We need to learn from these and strive to do better. It's no good doing the job for 98-99% of the match, its got to be even closer to 100%

    Lloris - More than a few of his kicks were again very poor. And he looked set to add another big game error to his rap sheet until Davies bailed him out.

    Alderweireld - Felt he lost his way in the closing minutes and could have done better initially for the goal. Mostly defended very solidly though.

    Dier - Solid until the goal. What can be said really, he's too slow sorting his feet out and reacting to it.

    Vertonghen - Felt he had a slightly below par second half. Bit sloppy with the ball on a few occasions and there were a couple of times before the goal where he had also failed to be round on the cover properly and so his man was wrong side. It was a preview for what would ultimately happen...

    Aurier - It's all a bit scattergun isn't it. Clearly got a bit of ability, and puts the effort in, but needs a more coherent output. I'd also like to see him take his man on more.

    Davies - Felt he was also a little sloppy on the left flank in the second half at times. Though did make one very important clearance to redeem himself.

    Winks - Seen a couple of people mention that moment but deserves repeating - about 10 mins in, where, after we'd been struggling to get started, he gets the ball in the centre of the park and with one relatively simple yet wonderfully composed piece of play it seemed to act as the catalyst to get a foothold in the game. Great stuff. Was mostly calm and composed throughout and keeps ticking boxes. Does seem to tire late on in games though and the errors start to creep in, that's the next hurdle for him to navigate, keep going till the final whistle.

    Sissoko - Decent effort as always, little to offer with the ball. Still feel he lacks real belief at times and so misses out on some decent opportunities to effect the game.

    Eriksen - A bit up and down for the first 50-60 mins, then when he got freed up into a slightly more advanced role he seemed to be much more at ease. Getting on the ball and finding pockets of space. It was then he played probably the pass of the match to Alli which deserved converting.

    Alli - Put in a decent shift again. With the ball wasn't at his erratic worst today, nowhere close, but still a bit hit and miss and didn't make the most of some openings. Also missed a great chance to give us the lead.

    Son - Tried hard but was feeding off scraps and couldn't really get involved.

    Subs:
    Dembele - A few good moments, a lot of clunky ones. Doesn't look anywhere near fit.

    Llorente - Early touches were promising, after that he just couldn't get into the game. Doesn't look up to speed yet, but where does the game time come from to get that? I also think he needs to be paired with Son rather than either/or.
     
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