Match Ratings Ratings vs Manu

[TheHoddleWaddle]

spot on

Too many 'fans' and i use that term lightly, are being influenced by the anti spurs media, a media largely made up of bitter goons, deluded scousers, pikeys and chavs...

Before the season started we were being told to expect 6th or even 7th playing away from WHL,and we had no chance of CL football.
Now that we sit 4th 5pts clear with 4 games left the media have completely moved the goal posts and brainwashed everyone into thinking this is the season we must win silverwear and nothing else matters.
I am not falling for all that shit , we all would have taken the season we have had back in August, we are moving into our new stadium with CL very realistic, no one gave us a prayer at the start of this campaign.

Fans with a real depth and knowledge of football and for the club will not get sucked into the media frenzy of doom and gloom, yes i am gutted, yes i want to win cups ,but i am still happy with our season and feel in the circumstances of the ground change and the current power of the league, we have done amazingly well and top 4 WILL be a fantastic achievement.

Carry on getting mugged off by the sky wankers who can't stand us, turn on your own, is that what supporting your team is all about.

Fuck me , where were you lot when Gary Doherty was our hope and 10th was a good season.

There's an I want to win instantly generation of fans. There's no patience or appreciation of building up for success. It's all about buying it. This is a slow burner, improving what we have now is going to get harder and slower. Anyway, see what the new stadium brings.

Finishing 4th in a season with no home is all good by me too. Especially considering the excellent run in the champs league.

 

[EastLondonYid]

There's an I want to win instantly generation of fans. There's no patience or appreciation of building up for success. It's all about buying it. This is a slow burner, improving what we have now is going to get harder and slower. Anyway, see what the new stadium brings.

Finishing 4th in a season with no home is all good by me too. Especially considering the excellent run in the champs league.

There is no doubt we must win trophies, and that we have allowed the media to get into our heads, but alot of the comments on here are a disgrace.
Sometimes though , posts are written by 'fans' that have only been fans since we have started improving and are not supportive when things go wrong, social media is not really a reflection of a true fan, some on here could probably just take or leave Spurs, for others like me its not just a football club, its a way of life, i can't remember not supporting spurs, and i value the good times which even though there is no trophy, these are still good times.exciting times .
Fans have every right to be disappointed and to let off steam, but the scathing shit on players who have been brilliant for us over the last 4 years is disgraceful and makes me ashamed if the players read all this shit.

 

[nailsy]

Jan and Eriksen both played very well.
Dier want quite at their level, but did well.
Trips frustrated by refusing to cross the ball when he was free.
Davies didn't really do much. I can't remember any crosses.
I've seen a few comments about Vorm being at fault for the goal, but having rewatched it he didn't really have a chance.
Kane did nothing. You can understand wanting to play one of the best players in the world, but if he's not fit enough to play the system.
Dembele started well, but seemed to pick up an injury and his mistake cost us the goal and the momentum.
Poch....no problem with the selection, but he needs to work on that plan B. We need that back up striker who can come on and be a goal threat. You can't bring Son on if he's already on the pitch.

 

[guiltyparty]

spot on

Too many 'fans' and i use that term lightly, are being influenced by the anti spurs media, a media largely made up of bitter goons, deluded scousers, pikeys and chavs...

Before the season started we were being told to expect 6th or even 7th playing away from WHL,and we had no chance of CL football.
Now that we sit 4th 5pts clear with 4 games left the media have completely moved the goal posts and brainwashed everyone into thinking this is the season we must win silverwear and nothing else matters.
I am not falling for all that shit , we all would have taken the season we have had back in August, we are moving into our new stadium with CL very realistic, no one gave us a prayer at the start of this campaign.

Fans with a real depth and knowledge of football and for the club will not get sucked into the media frenzy of doom and gloom, yes i am gutted, yes i want to win cups ,but i am still happy with our season and feel in the circumstances of the ground change and the current power of the league, we have done amazingly well and top 4 WILL be a fantastic achievement.

Carry on getting mugged off by the sky wankers who can't stand us, turn on your own, is that what supporting your team is all about.

Fuck me , where were you lot when Gary Doherty was our hope and 10th was a good season.

This is both true and a really boring argument, restated so many times you might as well make it a sticky.

But for context - I don’t think picking out a random bad season/player in our relatively recent past means anything. The lates 90s/early noughties was in parts painful but not really representative of being a Spurs fan - except the bit where we still won a trophy.

And Doherty scored in an fa cup semi, which is more than most of this side. Yep we still knew how to lose fa cup semis back then too.

I was born in the late 70s and grew up around us winning FA Cup 81 and 82, UEFA in 84, etc. There was an expectation of us in the cups, us NOT winning in 87 was seen as a huge deal. We finished 3rd three times and 4th twice in the 80s too. To suggest we always used to finish 10th is nonsense.

This isn’t even ancient history either. We’ve finished outside the top 10 twice in the past 15 years. The 5 years before Poch were 4/5/4/5/6, with the club supposedly in disarray. We made the quarter finals of the champions league just a few years before he took charge. Redknapp took us to two fa semis in 3 years with a worse squad, one with a league cup quarters in the same season while getting champions league for the first time. Even George Graham got us to two fa semis, while Juande Ramos won a cup. This isn’t Burnley’s renaissance under Sean Dyche, tho many would have you believe it

I love Poch, not suggesting anything drastic, but think people need to lose the mustard sometimes and face up when we’ve been disappointing. That was shit yesterday, from manager and players. We lost to a worse but more experienced side, we need to learn from that, not constantly make excuses

 

[EastLondonYid]

This is both true and a really boring argument, restated so many times you might as well make it a sticky.

But for context - I don’t think picking out a random bad season/player in our relatively recent past means anything. The lates 90s was painful but not really representative of being a Spurs fan.

I was born in the late 70s and grew up around us winning FA Cup 81 and 82, UEFA in 84, etc. There was an expectation of us in the cups, We finished 3rd three times and 4th twice in the 80s too. To suggest we always used to finish 10th is nonsense.

We’ve finished outside the top 10 twice in the past 15 years. The 5 years before Poch were 4/5/4/5/6, with the club supposedly in disarray. We made the quarter finals of the champions league just a few years before he took charge. Even Juande Ramos won a cup with Spurs. This isn’t Burnley’s renaissance under Sean Dyche, tho many would have you believe it

I love Poch, not suggesting anything drastic, but think people need to lose the mustard sometimes and face up when we’ve been disappointing. That was shit yesterday, from manager and players. We lost to a worse but more experienced side, we need to learn from that, not constantly make excuses

Sorry i bored you and thanks for the history lesson no need i went to all the cup finals 81 82 84 87 91 etc

I wasn't making excuses because if you read my post i am relatively happy with our season, if you read my post i said we would have taken what we have achieved at the start of the season and i will take this seasons achievements next season too all considered, ground moving, budget etc

Sorry if i am realistic.

 

[guiltyparty]

Sorry i bored you and thanks for the history lesson no need i went to all the cup finals 81 82 84 87 91 etc

I wasn't making excuses because if you read my post i am relatively happy with our season, if you read my post i said we would have taken what we have achieved at the start of the season and i will take this seasons achievements next season too all considered, ground moving, budget etc

Sorry if i am realistic.

Good on you. But if you know your history, you’d know this “you’ve never had it so good” stuff is horseshit.

I did read your post. You suggest quite strongly that anyone who is disappointed is being tarnished by an anti Spurs media and that Spurs have long been a bit rubbish.

I disagree with both these things. And you can also be proud of what we are achieving as a club while being disappointed in the team. Losing in an fa cup semi is not an achievement for Spurs, nor should we dress it up as one. And we haven’t secured 4th yet.

 

[mpickard2087]

I put the fact we made it to a semi final down to poch. I put the fact we are 4th down to poch. I put it down to poch that we are actually at a level we can compete.

This is man United we lost to. Silly money signings and a master of the dark arts of fucking games up in charge.

Pochettino isn't to 'blame' for anything. It's down to the players not performing as well as they can. United are still a team.full of quality.

His in game management can be a bit suspect, but who is to say that taking dembele off, for example, would have made any difference? Who comes on for dembele in the cm that makes the slightest bit of difference?

He can only pick the players he has. I think overall, we didn't do that badly. Competed, made some errors, lost to a side ultimately better than we are at the moment. Move on and learn from it.

Building success without spending bananas money takes time. It means using your squad wisely and giving players games to keep.harmony. It's going to take more time and a bit of luck to bring silverware.

But losing is not the point at all. We can lose, not being able to even muster any fight is just downright disappointing. Apart from the first 15-20 minutes when we seemingly used up the little energy left in opening bluster, I'd say we didn't really compete at all. This might be provocative, but fuck it, if anyone thinks that from minutes 20-90 that that was competing and good enough in terms of energy, application, tempo, intensity, desire, and that's before we get to the quality of football served up, then fair enough, but I think they have very low standards.

Certain individuals have been looking shagged for weeks - Davies, Dembele, Sanchez, Son, and Kane with his injury - now however we got into that situation, its been fairly clearly upon us and its now four games running (and as I said yesterday, I think performances have been patchy prior to that even) where I've basically watched the same lethargic performance. I don't think the players can be blamed as they just didn't have anything to give. What did Poch think was going to happen yesterday that hasn't happened in the previous three games? At the top level you cant get away with one or two ailing passengers, let alone four or five. What he has done since 2014 previously is of no relevance to the scenario we have currently been in, and I'm sorry but I do think he's buried his head in the sand a bit in the last few weeks, ignoring the evidence and ploughing on hoping it works out in the biggest game we had left. Well it didn't work out, we just got more of the same.

 

[scat1620]

No @Bus-Conductor, no Ratings thread. Come on, man, you know you want to vent that spleen and unleash a torrent of invective after yesterday's horror show...

 

[felmani26]

No @Bus-Conductor, no Ratings thread. Come on, man, you know you want to vent that spleen and unleash a torrent of invective after yesterday's horror show...

If there's not one 'turtle in a windsock' reference made re Dembele then I for one will be most disappointed.

 

[guiltyparty]

No @Bus-Conductor, no Ratings thread. Come on, man, you know you want to vent that spleen and unleash a torrent of invective after yesterday's horror show...

It felt like a greatest hits of BC’s complaints. Can probably piece it together from previous match reports

 

[TheHoddleWaddle]

But losing is not the point at all. We can lose, not being able to even muster any fight is just downright disappointing. Apart from the first 15-20 minutes when we seemingly used up the little energy left in opening bluster, I'd say we didn't really compete at all. This might be provocative, but fuck it, if anyone thinks that from minutes 20-90 that that was competing and good enough in terms of energy, application, tempo, intensity, desire, and that's before we get to the quality of football served up, then fair enough, but I think they have very low standards.

Certain individuals have been looking shagged for weeks - Davies, Dembele, Sanchez, Son, and Kane with his injury - now however we got into that situation, its been fairly clearly upon us and its now four games running (and as I said yesterday, I think performances have been patchy prior to that even) where I've basically watched the same lethargic performance. I don't think the players can be blamed as they just didn't have anything to give. What did Poch think was going to happen yesterday that hasn't happened in the previous three games? At the top level you cant get away with one or two ailing passengers, let alone four or five. What he has done since 2014 previously is of no relevance to the scenario we have currently been in, and I'm sorry but I do think he's buried his head in the sand a bit in the last few weeks, ignoring the evidence and ploughing on hoping it works out in the biggest game we had left. Well it didn't work out, we just got more of the same.

I get what you are saying mate. But he did rest quite a few prior to the game, against Brighton. I genuinely think he went for the best team he could (goalie and Toby aside). It's been a long season and I think the injuries the squad has coped with haven't helped keep players fresh. He's done what he can with the squad he has in my humble opinion.

I don't for a minute suggest he shouldn't be called out on some issues. I suggested before kick off his in game management can be poor and it wasn't great yesterday. But ultimately, he can only do so much and in the end, individual players have to be self motivated and find that bit of umph themselves. Personally, I think we were just beaten by better players overall who had the intelligence to break us down. Maybe my standards are fairly low, but I'm also a realist and I thought we played ok. Not brilliant but ok. (Son having a case of Rhino foot didn't help our cause much.)

The glaring criticism of the team, from my perspective is the lack of options for an effective CM pairing. I understand why dembele was left on for so long, what option is there who will find that incisive pass or try to carry the ball forwards? Wanyama? Sissoko? There is no-one, winks aside, who can make a difference to the way we play in that position. Occasionally Eriksen but he is needed where he is.

I'm heading towards wanting an overhaul of the wing backs too. Such a critically key area in his system of we want any width at all.

Anyway. Onwards and secure 4th. We will see what happens close season.

 

[BringBack_leGin]

The equaliser today drained our end completely, like everybody accepted defeat as soon as Sanchez scores. Last week was the same against City. Zero support. Was frustrating watching it unfold especially when you see how Anfield beat City the week before.

it does make you wonder when 3 months of being the best side in the league doesn’t buy the side support in the moments where it’s needed most, I.e. when the chips are down.

There’s very little to say then. It’s the same show on repeat and will be every season it seems. There’s only so many ways we can all say the same things so shall we just watch, enjoy the nice football and just close the forum?

You can appreciate where we are and how far we’ve come and still be peeved at always falling at the last hurdle. Except it’s often the hurdle before the hurdle - notice the Freudian slip of Poch calling it The Final in the pre-match interview - and it’s often self inflicted

If PL and CL really are the only cups Poch is interested in, I can safely predict we’ll never win a trophy under him as we are not going to win either. We’ve been nowhere near winning the league despite finishing 2nd, which is pretty impressive, and we are noticeably on a downturn as everyone else improves. Sorry, it’s the truth. Getting used to the new stadium will be just as difficult as Wembley, it’s not going to suddenly feel like home.

That’s fine, as a project it’s been and continued to be a successful one, and the club is in a great position. You’d have to be crazy to not see that. But it means we are effectively in a holding position of being the club that plays pretty football but shits the bed in the big games and never wins anything until something happens to change that. People need to deal with it, agreed.

But bigging this Man U side up when we lose to them when everyone’s been running them down all season is really painful.

There will always be an excuse and we’re becoming the experts at finding it. It’s why players leave to go to clubs who don’t make excuses for not winning and we can’t get angry about it either

Who’s making excuses? All I’ve said is that we’ve been great lately, our form has dipped, it’s frustrating but not worthy of the pathetic meltdown and anti Pochettino barrage which has resulted. On the way home I actually heard fans calling in and saying we’ll never get anywhere under Pochettino and it’s time to change him. Idiots.

I put the fact we made it to a semi final down to poch. I put the fact we are 4th down to poch. I put it down to poch that we are actually at a level we can compete.

This is man United we lost to. Silly money signings and a master of the dark arts of fucking games up in charge.

Pochettino isn't to 'blame' for anything. It's down to the players not performing as well as they can. United are still a team.full of quality.

His in game management can be a bit suspect, but who is to say that taking dembele off, for example, would have made any difference? Who comes on for dembele in the cm that makes the slightest bit of difference?

He can only pick the players he has. I think overall, we didn't do that badly. Competed, made some errors, lost to a side ultimately better than we are at the moment. Move on and learn from it.

Building success without spending bananas money takes time. It means using your squad wisely and giving players games to keep.harmony. It's going to take more time and a bit of luck to bring silverware.

Some sanity.

spot on

Too many 'fans' and i use that term lightly, are being influenced by the anti spurs media, a media largely made up of bitter goons, deluded scousers, pikeys and chavs...

Before the season started we were being told to expect 6th or even 7th playing away from WHL,and we had no chance of CL football.
Now that we sit 4th 5pts clear with 4 games left the media have completely moved the goal posts and brainwashed everyone into thinking this is the season we must win silverwear and nothing else matters.
I am not falling for all that shit , we all would have taken the season we have had back in August, we are moving into our new stadium with CL very realistic, no one gave us a prayer at the start of this campaign.

Fans with a real depth and knowledge of football and for the club will not get sucked into the media frenzy of doom and gloom, yes i am gutted, yes i want to win cups ,but i am still happy with our season and feel in the circumstances of the ground change and the current power of the league, we have done amazingly well and top 4 WILL be a fantastic achievement.

Carry on getting mugged off by the sky wankers who can't stand us, turn on your own, is that what supporting your team is all about.

Fuck me , where were you lot when Gary Doherty was our hope and 10th was a good season.

Watching reality tv and playing fifa I reckon...

There's an I want to win instantly generation of fans. There's no patience or appreciation of building up for success. It's all about buying it. This is a slow burner, improving what we have now is going to get harder and slower. Anyway, see what the new stadium brings.

Finishing 4th in a season with no home is all good by me too. Especially considering the excellent run in the champs league.

Ditto.

There is no doubt we must win trophies, and that we have allowed the media to get into our heads, but alot of the comments on here are a disgrace.
Sometimes though , posts are written by 'fans' that have only been fans since we have started improving and are not supportive when things go wrong, social media is not really a reflection of a true fan, some on here could probably just take or leave Spurs, for others like me its not just a football club, its a way of life, i can't remember not supporting spurs, and i value the good times which even though there is no trophy, these are still good times.exciting times .
Fans have every right to be disappointed and to let off steam, but the scathing shit on players who have been brilliant for us over the last 4 years is disgraceful and makes me ashamed if the players read all this shit.

The turning on Kane has left me ashamed to be associated by this lot. I suppose these same idiots will give him their blessing when Madrid come knocking because we’ll be able to find a striker who grabs 25 goals a season, every season, anywhere.

This is both true and a really boring argument, restated so many times you might as well make it a sticky.

But for context - I don’t think picking out a random bad season/player in our relatively recent past means anything. The lates 90s/early noughties was in parts painful but not really representative of being a Spurs fan - except the bit where we still won a trophy.

And Doherty scored in an fa cup semi, which is more than most of this side. Yep we still knew how to lose fa cup semis back then too.

I was born in the late 70s and grew up around us winning FA Cup 81 and 82, UEFA in 84, etc. There was an expectation of us in the cups, us NOT winning in 87 was seen as a huge deal. We finished 3rd three times and 4th twice in the 80s too. To suggest we always used to finish 10th is nonsense.

This isn’t even ancient history either. We’ve finished outside the top 10 twice in the past 15 years. The 5 years before Poch were 4/5/4/5/6, with the club supposedly in disarray. We made the quarter finals of the champions league just a few years before he took charge. Redknapp took us to two fa semis in 3 years with a worse squad, one with a league cup quarters in the same season while getting champions league for the first time. Even George Graham got us to two fa semis, while Juande Ramos won a cup. This isn’t Burnley’s renaissance under Sean Dyche, tho many would have you believe it

I love Poch, not suggesting anything drastic, but think people need to lose the mustard sometimes and face up when we’ve been disappointing. That was shit yesterday, from manager and players. We lost to a worse but more experienced side, we need to learn from that, not constantly make excuses

Once again, nobody is making excuses, merely pointing out that the rage and the antipathy towards the very people who have raised our expectations is pathetic. It is.

Yes, we finished fourth twice in four seasons under Redknapp. We have yet to under Pochettino, because in the same amount of time we have finished second and third. We are about to finish fourth in all likelihood.

Yes we won a cup under each of Ramos and Graham. The former also had us on track for relegation while the latter had us playing the worst football anywhere on the planet and forced out the one great player we had.

Yes, the 5 years before Pochettino were good. The almost four underneath him have been immeasurably better, and that’s without Bale, Modric, King and Van Der Vaart, four players who would be amongst the best six at the club now along with Kane and Eriksen if they were here.

And as for people blaming the selling experience, buy potential philosophy of the club, it is that very philosophy which has led to us rubbing shoulders with the five mega rich clubs despite having far less by way of resource.

But losing is not the point at all. We can lose, not being able to even muster any fight is just downright disappointing. Apart from the first 15-20 minutes when we seemingly used up the little energy left in opening bluster, I'd say we didn't really compete at all. This might be provocative, but fuck it, if anyone thinks that from minutes 20-90 that that was competing and good enough in terms of energy, application, tempo, intensity, desire, and that's before we get to the quality of football served up, then fair enough, but I think they have very low standards.

Certain individuals have been looking shagged for weeks - Davies, Dembele, Sanchez, Son, and Kane with his injury - now however we got into that situation, its been fairly clearly upon us and its now four games running (and as I said yesterday, I think performances have been patchy prior to that even) where I've basically watched the same lethargic performance. I don't think the players can be blamed as they just didn't have anything to give. What did Poch think was going to happen yesterday that hasn't happened in the previous three games? At the top level you cant get away with one or two ailing passengers, let alone four or five. What he has done since 2014 previously is of no relevance to the scenario we have currently been in, and I'm sorry but I do think he's buried his head in the sand a bit in the last few weeks, ignoring the evidence and ploughing on hoping it works out in the biggest game we had left. Well it didn't work out, we just got more of the same.

I know you love to take an intrinsic view of everything and make it all as scientific as possible, but this is as simple as ‘we were on magnificent form, best in the league between Christmas and April, and we’ve now lost that form’. Sadly we don’t have 2 world class players to rotate for every position because we don’t have unlimited funds like City, Utd and Chelsea (who we are still comfortably ahead of by the way).

Footballers aren’t robots, neither are managers, they lose form and make mistakes. We are punching above our weight in the most competitive league on earth, if we finish this season top 4, games cup semi final, good champions league showing, with lessons to help us improve for next season, it’s a success. Maybe not an unmitigated success, but a success nonetheless.

 

[Ronwol196061]

]I had felt we should have played 5 at the back,use Dembele as a DM (yes it was his mistake that turned the game) and Dele as CM and I feel we would have been strong enough to withstand United and had a flow down the field.
Our game was predicated on strength and not creativity and we did well up until Dembele turned inward physically takeing on United.
The problem was after that we lost our belief. You look at Mourinho and can see the fire in his eyes. Poch has a plan.One plan. He has no other answers. Mourinho is a warrior,Poch an engineer.

 

[mpickard2087]

I get what you are saying mate. But he did rest quite a few prior to the game, against Brighton. I genuinely think he went for the best team he could (goalie and Toby aside). It's been a long season and I think the injuries the squad has coped with haven't helped keep players fresh. He's done what he can with the squad he has in my humble opinion.

I don't for a minute suggest he shouldn't be called out on some issues. I suggested before kick off his in game management can be poor and it wasn't great yesterday. But ultimately, he can only do so much and in the end, individual players have to be self motivated and find that bit of umph themselves. Personally, I think we were just beaten by better players overall who had the intelligence to break us down. Maybe my standards are fairly low, but I'm also a realist and I thought we played ok. Not brilliant but ok. (Son having a case of Rhino foot didn't help our cause much.)

The glaring criticism of the team, from my perspective is the lack of options for an effective CM pairing. I understand why dembele was left on for so long, what option is there who will find that incisive pass or try to carry the ball forwards? Wanyama? Sissoko? There is no-one, winks aside, who can make a difference to the way we play in that position. Occasionally Eriksen but he is needed where he is.

I'm heading towards wanting an overhaul of the wing backs too. Such a critically key area in his system of we want any width at all.

Anyway. Onwards and secure 4th. We will see what happens close season.

The big one is Kane. His role is a critical component, the striker is for most teams as a focal point + for us has to lead the press. We'd seen against City he's only got really 15 mins of running in his legs, it was no better against United, but Poch couldn't make the difficult, brave call in my opinion.

As for squad issues, personally I cant sympathise with Poch any more on that front. He's been here four seasons now, there is no excuse for not having squad depth - maybe not like for like quality, but players who come in and offer what Poch teams do. The energy, the intensity, the work rate. I think the truth largely is that Poch just doesn't do rotation. Son looks really tired and has done for weeks, but he's had options like Moura/Lamela to use more. Sanchez is starting to look a bit frazzled after what I suspect is more games in his debut season than was envisaged, Toby recently or Dier at CB or even Foyth in some games is available to rest him more. Davies looks fucked, alright Rose has been out but he's still got KWP (who could play either right or left, as could Aurier) in order to be able to rotate regularly... I don't think there are many positions where alternatives aren't available. That we're rather limping towards the line and trying to cling on to what we've got suggests we could be in better condition and managed the squad better.

Central midfield is an issue, but again he's had four years and, though its been a largely successful approach, shown very little interest in anything other than power, solidity, and brute force in the middle of the park. Footballing options like Bentaleb, Mason, Carroll all quickly brushed aside, Winks (admittedly having had injury issues) kind of always on the cusp, Onomah never even trusted for one minute in CM... And that's before any signings.

Finally, my 'low standards' comment was a poor choice of words and shouldn't have been said, so apologies.

 

[guiltyparty]

it does make you wonder when 3 months of being the best side in the league doesn’t buy the side support in the moments where it’s needed most, I.e. when the chips are down.



Who’s making excuses? All I’ve said is that we’ve been great lately, our form has dipped, it’s frustrating but not worthy of the pathetic meltdown and anti Pochettino barrage which has resulted. On the way home I actually heard fans calling in and saying we’ll never get anywhere under Pochettino and it’s time to change him. Idiots.



Some sanity.



Watching reality tv and playing fifa I reckon...



Ditto.



The turning on Kane has left me ashamed to be associated by this lot. I suppose these same idiots will give him their blessing when Madrid come knocking because we’ll be able to find a striker who grabs 25 goals a season, every season, anywhere.



Once again, nobody is making excuses, merely pointing out that the rage and the antipathy towards the very people who have raised our expectations is pathetic. It is.

Yes, we finished fourth twice in four seasons under Redknapp. We have yet to under Pochettino, because in the same amount of time we have finished second and third. We are about to finish fourth in all likelihood.

Yes we won a cup under each of Ramos and Graham. The former also had us on track for relegation while the latter had us playing the worst football anywhere on the planet and forced out the one great player we had.

Yes, the 5 years before Pochettino were good. The almost four underneath him have been immeasurably better, and that’s without Bale, Modric, King and Van Der Vaart, four players who would be amongst the best six at the club now along with Kane and Eriksen if they were here.

And as for people blaming the selling experience, buy potential philosophy of the club, it is that very philosophy which has led to us rubbing shoulders with the five mega rich clubs despite having far less by way of resource.



I know you love to take an intrinsic view of everything and make it all as scientific as possible, but this is as simple as ‘we were on magnificent form, best in the league between Christmas and April, and we’ve now lost that form’. Sadly we don’t have 2 world class players to rotate for every position because we don’t have unlimited funds like City, Utd and Chelsea (who we are still comfortably ahead of by the way).

Footballers aren’t robots, neither are managers, they lose form and make mistakes. We are punching above our weight in the most competitive league on earth, if we finish this season top 4, games cup semi final, good champions league showing, with lessons to help us improve for next season, it’s a success. Maybe not an unmitigated success, but a success nonetheless.

There are lots and lots of excuses on here. Just because you may not be doesn’t mean “nobody”is. We’re becoming a bit of a laughing stock for our excuses, if you’re bothered about that. I’m not but it’s there. I’d say it’s as pathetic defending absolutely everything we do as it is being negative. Balance or GTFO.

Also some are judging spurs fans on the boneheads, it sounds like. Generalisations. I’ve not heard any barrage, I’m sorry you have. Most spurs fans I know don’t want to talk about it as they’re sick of the same old again.

As for your points, Poch finished 5th first season. Thinking 4th is in the bag could really come and bite us in the arse so I’m not saying anything. But Newcastle and Leicester are both bogey-ish teams and away to WBA who take points off everyone at the moment. I’m not counting any chickens yet after our last two games.

As for other stuff, it’s just nonsense really. The whole point of me mentioning Graham and Ramos is that this picking out some random point from history is silly. Whether it’s Doherty or Graham, everything is context.

VDV would not have played in Poch:’s system any more than AVB’s, so pining for him is nonsense. King was in decline, even in redknapps day. Why not put Jimmy Greaves alongside Kane too? We did not have the squad we have now. I’m not redknapps biggest fan but to suggest he had better tools is just nonsense too.

Yes Poch has improved most of those players into the players they are but at what point do we judge them on their supposed worth to other clubs? If these are all 50m and 100m players,when do they “arrive”? I think that’s what some people struggle with

 

[mpickard2087]

I know you love to take an intrinsic view of everything and make it all as scientific as possible, but this is as simple as ‘we were on magnificent form, best in the league between Christmas and April, and we’ve now lost that form’. Sadly we don’t have 2 world class players to rotate for every position because we don’t have unlimited funds like City, Utd and Chelsea (who we are still comfortably ahead of by the way).

Footballers aren’t robots, neither are managers, they lose form and make mistakes. We are punching above our weight in the most competitive league on earth, if we finish this season top 4, games cup semi final, good champions league showing, with lessons to help us improve for next season, it’s a success. Maybe not an unmitigated success, but a success nonetheless.

But basically you are reducing it to " well I know Sanchez is starting to look tired, Dembele hasn't played well since February, Son has looked tired for weeks, Davies too, and Kane can only run for 10 minutes, but these are my best players so I cant do anything and have to put them out there and hope for the best".

Which if that is how people see the game and think we just had to plough through with our best players, even if you've got two/three/or more out there who are really weary then fair enough, but I cant accept that and think there were at least one or two decisions that had to be made here and to try and find solutions. It's not even about whether we won or lost for me, it's that we've arrived in the biggest game we had left in a 'bad moment' and I find it unacceptable, and so why I am disappointed with Poch, that what we saw was a repeat of the three lethargic performances prior - just served up completely the same.

Edit: Things settle down for the next couple of weeks and hopefully they can rest up, get fit in Kane's case, and have a good week of training between games, but as I said last night, from now till the end of the season I want to see eleven players out there who can offer the intensity and energy and finish the season strongly. Not continue to limp towards the finish line.

 

[TheHoddleWaddle]

The big one is Kane. His role is a critical component, the striker is for most teams as a focal point + for us has to lead the press. We'd seen against City he's only got really 15 mins of running in his legs, it was no better against United, but Poch couldn't make the difficult, brave call in my opinion.

As for squad issues, personally I cant sympathise with Poch any more on that front. He's been here four seasons now, there is no excuse for not having squad depth - maybe not like for like quality, but players who come in and offer what Poch teams do. The energy, the intensity, the work rate. I think the truth largely is that Poch just doesn't do rotation. Son looks really tired and has done for weeks, but he's had options like Moura/Lamela to use more. Sanchez is starting to look a bit frazzled after what I suspect is more games in his debut season than was envisaged, Toby recently or Dier at CB or even Foyth in some games is available to rest him more. Davies looks fucked, alright Rose has been out but he's still got KWP (who could play either right or left, as could Aurier) in order to be able to rotate regularly... I don't think there are many positions where alternatives aren't available. That we're rather limping towards the line and trying to cling on to what we've got suggests we could be in better condition and managed the squad better.

Central midfield is an issue, but again he's had four years and, though its been a largely successful approach, shown very little interest in anything other than power, solidity, and brute force in the middle of the park. Footballing options like Bentaleb, Mason, Carroll all quickly brushed aside, Winks (admittedly having had injury issues) kind of always on the cusp, Onomah never even trusted for one minute in CM... And that's before any signings.

Finally, my 'low standards' comment was a poor choice of words and shouldn't have been said, so apologies.

No need for apologies I'm no shrinking violet and you made it to make a point. No drama pal.

There's a counter argument that he can only strengthen with the funds he is given and players signed. That's probably for a.different thread.

He did use winks when he was fully.fit and capable. So I think he is open to a more creative cm pairing, but I take your point he does seem to prefer a cm bruising pair. It just leads to a lack of transition between them.and the attackers. Doesn't help that big Vic has really suffered for form post.injury. leads to a lack of options and thrashing the cms we have. Ala dembele who probably should only be playing every other game.

 

[Wheeler Dealer]

The players are only worth what another club is prepared to pay for them.

 

[guiltyparty]

But basically you are reducing it to " well I know Sanchez is starting to look tired, Dembele hasn't played well since February, Son has looked tired for weeks, Davies too, and Kane can only run for 10 minutes, but these are my best players so I cant do anything and have to put them out there and hope for the best".

Which if that is how people see the game and think we just had to plough through with our best players, even if you've got two/three/or more out there who are really weary then fair enough, but I cant accept that and think there were at least one or two decisions that had to be made here and to try and find solutions. It's not even about whether we won or lost for me, it's that we've arrived in the biggest game we had left in a 'bad moment' and I find it unacceptable, and so why I am disappointed with Poch, that what we saw was a repeat of the three performances prior - just served up completely the same.

Herrera is a great example of this. Barely been in the team in the league this season, picked, turns in a match winning performance of goal and shithousery, clearly prescribed by Jose.

Ali Gold was making a big deal of correctly selecting our ‘surprise’ starting 11 but it was not even remotely surprising and the most obvious 11. We don’t really do surprises, we turn up with the expected 11 and usualLy the quality wins out

 

[guiltyparty]

The players are only worth what another club is prepared to pay for them.

Quite but these “Man Utd have spent 500m” defences sound like excuses when in the next breath Kane is a 200m striker, Alli is 100m etc etc. If someone wanted to buy our starting 11, it would cost more than Utd’s