Ratings vs Newcastle

Discussion in 'Match Ratings Archive' started by Bulletspur, Oct 26, 2014.

MOM

  1. Lloris

    3 vote(s)
    1.6%
  2. Dier

    1 vote(s)
    0.5%
  3. Kaboul

    2 vote(s)
    1.0%
  4. Verts

    1 vote(s)
    0.5%
  5. Rose

    112 vote(s)
    58.6%
  6. Capoue

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  7. Mason

    57 vote(s)
    29.8%
  8. Lamela

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  9. Eriksen

    3 vote(s)
    1.6%
  10. Chadli

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  11. Adebayor

    4 vote(s)
    2.1%
  12. Kane

    3 vote(s)
    1.6%
  13. Lennon

    1 vote(s)
    0.5%
  14. Soldado

    4 vote(s)
    2.1%
  1. EastLondonYid

    EastLondonYid Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    5,121
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    What makes yesterday even worse is that Newcastle are the one team i would have chosen to play at home to get us back to winning ways, i still can't work out how we lost to such a pile of shite......that was this seasons lowest point so far.

    Poch looks like he has been made a promise by a liar, body language doesn't look great....doesn't seem to rate any of 'his':rolleyes: new signings,...but we have been here before haven't we,? top 4..:ROFLMAO: i would take top 7 and be grateful.

    First half we could have been out of sight , but lets be honest, that would be covering up the cracks, i feel his treatment of Soldado sitting on the bench twice in 4 days after playing well at City confusing.

    Ratings?........:(
     
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  2. Col_M

    Col_M Pointing out the Obvious

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    100% THIS. Unless he is given the a pass 3feet off the ground for him to do his party trick of chesting it down he just stands still has a cup of tea and ponders what to do next. Meanwhile the opposition defence have recovered and are all in their positions for the inevitable cross to the first defender.
     
  3. Borks

    Borks Well-Known Member

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    1,524
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    +3,434 / 407 / -258
    Rose was by far our best player yesterday, I don't understand how anyone can not agree with that? He may have made a couple of wrong decisions when going forward but he was the only player that did anything going forward.
     
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  4. olliec

    olliec Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    686
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    +1,454 / 79 / -31
    I hope the Dier getting one vote is a joke on this thread or somebody just didn't watch the game. He was awful and you could see he has lost confidence after that goal.
     
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  5. thinktank

    thinktank Hmmm...

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    He's also not a RB, but is a good CB with potential to be an excellent one.

    Just gotta suck that one up due to injuries.
     
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  6. cliff jones

    cliff jones Well-Known Member

    Messages:
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    +2,073 / 341 / -127
    Hugo might, might have been more alert for their equaliser 6
    Dier good first, missing second. 5
    Rose motm, two excellent crosses in the second half which should have led to goals
    Jan weakness from crosses exposed again, Capoue gets in the way of his strides forward 5
    Kaboul a mixed bag as always, not an obvious leader 5
    Capoue a dm who can't tackle! Flatters to deceive. 5
    Mason tried hard to be incisive, but apart from the assist found the edge of the box cluttered 7
    Eriksen played well, tried hard, some nice interplay but just doesn't click with Ade 7
    Chadli and Lamela both did sfa, the latter held back a lot but the ref didn't care 4
    Ade worked quite hard by his standards but the goal was the beginning and the end, wants too many touches 5

    Poch worst day at his new office. Soldado and Kane deserved shirts, and if they produce again in the week will sit on the bench at Villa thinking there's no meritocracy at Spurs, just the same old predictable line up and tactics to go with it. Shocking that Dier and the rest are not briefed to look very quickly and closely at any ht changes by the opposition. Shockingly inept. The lad still had a ht cuppa in his mit and ht oily in his gob.
     
  7. Phantom

    Phantom Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    5,187
    Ratings Received:
    +1,291 / 27 / -2
    The team played badly second half, which is bad enough given the occasion and the fact it was against Newcastle. But as Cliff says (above), what motivation is there to play well when you can be dropped after scoring a hat trick. It wasn't just his hatrick either, Kane has played well so far and deserves to start. Demebele has looked a bit better in cameos in the last couple of weeks, certainly looked better than Capoue.
     
    Last edited: Oct 27, 2014
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  8. cozzo

    cozzo Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,138
    Ratings Received:
    +2,370 / 152 / -59
    How does Soldado get a 5 when you say he did nothing, but Adebayor gets a 4.5 and scored? Even when scoring Adebayor you couldn't mask your dislike for the player in your last two sentences that were irrelevant to his performance
     
  9. nightgoat

    nightgoat Well-Known Member

    Messages:
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    +20,555 / 316 / -97
    Firstly I said Soldado didn't have time to make any impact, not 'he did nothing'. There's an important difference.

    I'm using 5 as the default rating which each player starts on and can either increase or decrease due to good or bad performance. As Soldado wasn't able to influence the game having come on for the last six minutes plus injury time, he gets a five. Adebayor on the other hand, despite being on the pitch for almost the entire game contributed nothing besides the goal. He was frequently out of position (as we have come to expect) out wide, dropping deep, leaving no focal point for the attack. If I disliked him so much as you say then I wouldn't have been singing his name after he scored.

    As for my summation of his performance, after having seen Kane play well and score a hattrick in midweek, and Soldado having a very good game (penalty miss aside) against Man City either of them deserved to start this game more than Adebayor did. And my opinion of Adebayor's performance is not in isolation. The overriding opinion of fans around me was that Adebayor was very poor yesterday and that Kane or Soldado should have started.
     
  10. cozzo

    cozzo Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,138
    Ratings Received:
    +2,370 / 152 / -59
    It's the nothing besides a goal as a posed to doing nothing that gets me. Goals win matches. Soldado had a great chance to equalise in the final moments of the game, but its not even mentioned. People want Soldado to prosper more than Adebayor.
     
  11. Dan Yeats

    Dan Yeats Well-Known Member

    Messages:
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    +3,013 / 123 / -46
    Wow. Who would have predicted Danny getting the MOTM poll 6 months ago!?! o_O

    Mason for me, but Rose not far behind. Great work.
     
  12. Darrkespur

    Darrkespur Resident scientist

    Messages:
    2,265
    Ratings Received:
    +1,340 / 20 / -1
    I got a late ticket on Stubhub as I was on my way back through London from a family reunion. After the game I wasn't sure it was worth the bother.

    In the first half we were so in control it was hard to believe the final score. We look very fluid with Mason in the team and the Newcastle team didn't really do anything for the first 45 minutes. But despite our dominance we didn't make enough chances. Another goal and it's a very different game.

    For all the stick Pardew gets the change at half time was a good one - I'm pretty sure he spotted Dier's struggle with pace and intentionally matched Ameobi up against him. The equaliser was almost all down to that mismatch and a good pass inside Dier. The second goal was a similar mismatch with Dier again exploited.

    I did really notice sitting in the north end that our crowd is really quiet. Maybe I've been spoiled by going to a lot of Swansea games (where I grew up) but they are singing all game, really lifting the team. Most people in my stand had left five minutes before half time to get a beer, and half of them didn't get back in time to see the goal. There was very little singing from our end, and again, everyone left 5-10 minutes before the end of the match, despite that being the time the team really needed the crowd to get behind them. That said, the team really needs one or two fiery characters to keep them going, but the crowd's grumbling really didn't help.

    Onto the ratings:

    Lloris: 6. Not much to do, couldn't do much about the goals.
    Dier: 3 Unfortunately, he had a really bad day and was completely exposed as a CB playing RB in the second half. Newcastle saw this weakness and exploited it for both goals. Tried hard but frequently missed tackles or interceptions, and a couple of really bad crosses. The sooner the Kyles get back, the better. Still young and promising, but definitely a CB on this display.
    Kaboul: 6 Defensively he was pretty good, mopping up a lot of Newcastle moves. Going forward he played a lot of ill-advised Hollywood passes and lost the ball a lot.
    Vertonghen: 6 Didn't do much wrong, didn't do much right.
    Rose: 7 Got forward well, some good challenges and a couple of decent crosses, but exposed a bit when pushing forward.
    Capoue: 5. For the guy supposed to be the linchpin of this midfield I thought he was poor, didn't impose himself nearly enough on the game. I wish he had Sandro's passion and drive but with his passing ability. Thought he was the right choice to bring off, but bringing on Kane for him destroyed our shape. Would like to see Stambouli have a go.
    Mason: 7.5 Fantastic in the first half but tired in the second half, especially as he was our only central midfielder by that point. Great awareness for the goal. we play much faster when he's in the team, he's a catalyst like Modric used to be. Hopefully he can carry on improving.
    Eriksen: 6.5 I love this guy and he tried hard but it wasn't quite coming off today, either a defender got a great block in (Newcastle defended pretty well) or he wasn't quite on the same wavelength as the person he was trying to pass to.
    Lamela: 5.5 He tried lots of stuff and there were some nice interchanges in the first half but for every moment of magic there's a mistake or a lost ball that gets us in trouble. He's got the talent but he needs to mature and use it more wisely.
    Chadli: 5 Did very very little. I've been impressed with him for the most part but we need to have another option in our team for his off days. It frustrates me that we don't swap Chadli and Eriksen's positions enough - I would have taken Chadli off for Kane instead of Capoue and played Kane centrally.
    Adebayor 3 He scored a goal, but literally everything else didn't come off. Terrible first touch all game, dominated by Coloccini and Taylor in the air, frequently dropping to the wings or midfield without any communication with the other players. He was a big reason why we looked so impotent. Should have been taken off for Soldado much much earlier (possibly before the game...)

    Subs: Kane did pretty well in his cameo, always showing for the ball and some nice touches, worked the keeper albeit with a fairly tame volley. Lennon was pretty anonymous apart from one shot over the bar. Soldado looked good in the little time he had, some great touches, including some really good takedowns from long balls, but he should have been on the field much earlier and by that time we were tiring. A frustrating day.
     
  13. The Apprentice

    The Apprentice Charles Big Potatoes

    Messages:
    7,177
    Ratings Received:
    +4,352 / 215 / -37
    The lack of competition for Lamela, Eriksen and Chadli is a bit of a worry. They would all benefit from a bit of healthy competition.

    Lennon and Townsend don't really count.
     
  14. eddiebailey

    eddiebailey Well-Known Member

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    +5,438 / 422 / -118
    Not when they are told to cut inside all the time they don't.
     
  15. THFCSPURS19

    THFCSPURS19 Well-Known Member

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    @Bus-Conductor , I can see you are on the site right this moment. Release the Kraken!
     
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  16. Pedro

    Pedro Blue & Yellow

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    1,961
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    +1,207 / 30 / -18
    This isn't creepy whatsoever :cautious:
     
  17. Bus-Conductor

    Bus-Conductor SC Supporter

    Messages:
    36,988
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    +45,366 / 2,084 / -621
    Time (but especially football) waits for no man.

    I'm guessing much apoplexy has been busy ensuing. Pochettino was supposed to be the Messiah. The man with midas touch. The layer of coaching hands and healer of all football ills. Our revolutionary Che Guevara, come to liberate us from the mind control of Big Brother Boas.

    Here's a news flash. Some of us knew all along that not everything was AVB's fault. We even knew that some of it wasn't Chippy Tim's fault. Some of it, is just inherent, inert, and maybe even, inoperable.

    That performance wasn't terrible. That performance's biggest crime was that it was a facsimile of many, many that have gone before. Lot's of ball, lots or territory, lots of lack of care and composure, lots of poor execution at the vital moment, lots of unintelligence.

    We all talk about patience and how turning round a lilting tanker off the coast of Nearly Mid Table Island with a rooky crew will inevitably take time, but the first sign of sticky results, the first sign of no actual miracle or glorious revolution and the natives are already talking military coup.

    I was at the game. I've been at that game many, many times before. I was at that game 9 times in one season under Redknapp, and that was when we had the best team I've seen at WHL since about 1987. Possibly better. And I was at that game numerous times under AVB, especially in the early months of his reign and then again in the early months of the squad overhaul.

    Like his recent predecessors, he isn't always helping himself. Nowhere near as prone to rampant self harm as AVB maybe, Mopo is still making the odd counter productive decision.

    The front four clearly gelled last week, despite losing. Soldado may not have covered more ground than an in form Adebayor's would, but his brain seemed more alert and in tune to those around him. It seemed like a case of maybe less quantity more quality in that danger area.

    I was really fucked off to see Adebayor given another start. I know what he's capable of. So I know full fucking well what we are not getting. This Adebayor would probably still be better than a Defoe on form. But not the Soldado that tried his heart out last week in a tough arena. The Soldado who set up a goal, the best chance of the game was unlucky not to score a couple and generally worked very hard and more importantly, intelligently to combine with those around him.

    Hell, I'd have even seen logic in giving the in form Kane a run out.

    Adebayor huffed and puffed intermittently, and even managed to not miss the easiest chance he's had all season, but this was still a very erratic, unpredictable and occasionally lethargic Adebayor. There was one instance where he lead a press charge in the first half. That was it. I really believe he is having a detrimental effect on the whole dynamic of our attacking and team play right now.

    I don't understand why Vertonghen & Capoue - or even Lamela to a degree- were played thursday if they were to play yesterday. People will I'm sure pick up on Capoue's less than great performance, but hardly surprising after the outstanding effort he put in on thursday, and personally I don't think playing with Mason is doing him too many favours either. Mason chipped a lovely ball for Adebayor to score from, and was lively at times, but for all his flitting about (or positional indiscipline) he didn't really bring much incision or creativity and a pay off for leaving Capoue to do most of the donkey work.

    I can understand the logic of Mason being played, he brings intent and willingness to get forward, and I'm not writing him or that combo off, but Pochettino needs to find a way to make it work better. I think either his energetic and higher press system and/or a with to a 433, with maybe Bentaleb the other side of Capoue. Odds slim I know.

    I keep saying Dier is a liability as a RB. Pochettino doesn't seem to see it the same way. We have two young quick RB's in the development group who might not be mustard but surely couldn't be worse there. Time to try IMO. Let Dier have Kaboul's CB shirt and see how he gets on, again, I'm pretty sure he couldn't be much worse than Kaboul's been at times this season. We know we are in transition, lets use this season to blood and build the next generation, who will probably be more in tune with Pochettino's philosophy anyway.

    Lamela will I'm sure be getting 30m price tag grief, but still, for me, he's an absolute necessity. He's still more involved and more likely to do something (I think it was his initial run that started the move for the goal) than a Lennon or Townsend etc is ever likely to. His work without the ball just cements my opinion. He continues to try too hard and to hang on to the ball too long at times, he must learn, but for all his flaws, I still prefer him out there than the alternatives. He's unpredictable and invariably does something productive most games. Again, not something the other two can claim.

    I thought Rose was well worth a shout for MOTM. Yes, he wanked up a couple of crosses, but he was continually doing the job a full back should be doing in this tactical set up, providing the width the inverted wide players don't. And he put two very good balls across that Eriksen and Kane should have done better with. He was also defensively pretty decent too, but what possibly blotted his copy book was his weak effort to challenge on their second goal. The striker is clever, he drifts himself off Vertonghen, but I think Rose reads this, and knows he has to pick him up, but is too slow moving. But I need to see this again to be sure.

    I expected us to dominate the ball against Newcastle at home, and we did. I don't expect Pochettino to work a quick miracle. I wouldn't trust it if he did. What I want to start seeing is some evidence of a tactical difference, some sign of Pochettino's high energy, high press cohesion - or just better cohesion. Selections that are more symbiotic with each other and more conducive to what Pochettino wants to achieve. I want to see much better movement off the ball, at times we were so fucking static it's unreal.

    But here's the bottom line. I know it won't happen over night. It may take a season, 18 months or even 2 seasons. It took Ferguson 5. And he didn't have Oligarchs to compete with.

    I hope we can all be patient, but the crowd at WHL remind me more and more of the Liverpool supporting pricks I used to despise on 5-Live phone-ins every week. Demanding their entitlement and instant gratification or else.

    Individual stuff

    Lloris - OK, didn't have much to do. not sure on the goal though, need to see again.

    Dier - Poor game. Caught napping for their first, not sure if culpable for the second too, but doesn't offer anything in an attacking sense and that is vital in this system.\

    Kaboul - OK

    Vertonghen - OK

    Rose - A very good game offensively and should have had at least one assist. Defensively pretty decent as well. Question mark on second goal.

    Capoue - Not his best game.

    Mason - Put in a nice chip cross for the goal. I like that he wants to get forward and be proactive, but if that's why he's there, and it's not for his defensive awareness and discipline, then he needs to be providing a bit more creatively or productively than he did yesterday. Not a bad performance by any stretch, but not one that was any more inventive or constructive than most of our other CM's could have put on.

    Lamela - See above.

    Eriksen - OK.

    Chadli - Not terrible but nothing very inspirational either.

    Adebayor - Took his goal well enough but otherwise was pretty poor. Didn't see much ball, his movement was unimaginative, did very little of quality and should have been yanked off for Soldado or Kane. I think his current malaise is undermining what Pochettino is trying to instil.
     
    Last edited: Oct 27, 2014
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  18. Marty

    Marty Throbbing member

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    Well worth the wait, BC! Not often I agree with pretty much everything in your posts but I did this time.
     
  19. thinktank

    thinktank Hmmm...

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    lol you're totally obsessed with Bentaleb, BC.:D It ain't gonna happen.

    Mason is our most important outfield player and had a very good game yesterday (watched it again today and watched him closely), we would not be playing most of the positive parts of our game, currently, without him. He's fantastic.

    Agree with most of the other stuff though.
     
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  20. steve

    steve Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    3,390
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    +1,602 / 38 / -9
    What was very alarming yesterday was the lack of fight and leadership within the team. Heads dropped and the players didn't seem to know how to raise themselves back up again. I know it's not tangible and thus hard to quantify but it was very apparent after their 2nd goal when only Kaboul was barking at the others before kick off. I must agree with BC regarding the crowd, we are pretty shocking the majority of the time these days especially against teams we think we should be picking the points up against. Yesterday was no different.

    We lack balls and mentality as a team. Chadli and Eriksen for all their technical talent only grab games when things are going our way. I appreciate Lamela's effort and I think Mason for his positional weaknesses (often because he goes ball chasing rather than just missing) and lightweight physicality should be playing every week because he fucking cares. He bollocked Lamela right in front of me 2nd half yesterday and if he can marry up his desire with some discipline he can be a very good player for us - I wouldn't mind him played as a no. 10 in fact instead of Eriksen with a Bentaleb, Stambouli or Dembele dropped in beside Capoue, just to give us some more bollocks in midfield.

    Adebayor has to be dropped for now, he's potentially brilliant but he's taking the piss and I hope Poch realises this very soon. Kane or Soldado is fine by me.

    In fact it's time to give youth a chance because at least they seem to care and appreciate their places in the team - Kane, Mason, Rose, Bentaleb all play their hearts out whenever they pull the shirt on. For all his talent I'm sick of watching Eriksen avoid headers, pull out of tackles and generally fanny around when he doesn't have the ball. I don't know how players at this level get away with it. Dier needs a run at centre half starting Wednesday I hope.

    I hope Poch gets it soon - I'm all for a manager backing his players but they're gonna get him sacked unless he grabs 'em by the balls soon and starts squeezing. I just hope this time the chairman backs the manager for as long as it takes.
     
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