Ratings vs Partizan Belgrade

MOM

  • Lloris

    Votes: 13 6.5%
  • Davies

    Votes: 1 0.5%
  • Verts

    Votes: 60 29.9%
  • Fazio

    Votes: 39 19.4%
  • Naughton

    Votes: 2 1.0%
  • Bentaleb

    Votes: 11 5.5%
  • Stambouli

    Votes: 50 24.9%
  • Lennon

    Votes: 3 1.5%
  • Paulinho

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Townsend

    Votes: 4 2.0%
  • Kane

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Lamela

    Votes: 2 1.0%
  • Soldado

    Votes: 2 1.0%
  • Capoue

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • No one

    Votes: 14 7.0%

  • Total voters
    201

Supersi32

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Agree. However dembele has all the attributes to be one of the best. Just listen to players that have played with him the likes of Danny Murphy says he is one of the best midfielders he has played with, my mates who are all Chelsea still maintain when he played against them for Fulham he was the best player they had seen in an opposition shirt! Poch will get more out of him I'm sure. Moussa has the ability to affect a football match and win a game for us. Bentaleb does not neither does capoue, don't get me wrong you need all types of players in a side to compliment the other but moussa is far too good when fit not to be in our side. Poch has seen that and he will start Sunday
I think in the longer term this season our central duo will be Dembele & Stambouli, that`s what I`d like to see anyway.
 

sloth

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Crap match on crap pitch, no real stand-outs for me, however in support of Bus-Conductor's Bentaleb point, Whoscored have an algorithm which measures what they've identified as a the key contributions a player makes, e.g. successful passes, tackles, interceptions, goals, assists, key passes, etc. by that measure he was our most effective player last night, edging Vertonghen by a smidgen, but verts benefitted fro a collective bonus awarded to the whole defence by the algorithm for not conceding last night.
 

stemark44

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Whilst I do agree that we lack someone who offers the ability to put their foot on the ball and conduct play, certainly a 'readymade' one, I don't agree that things are purely down to this individual(s). 'Pass' always has to be coupled with 'move'. If people aren't making runs or offering decent options then its always going to be played in front of a defence and easy to defend against. Its been a problem for years, remember when we had Modric/VDV et al and couldn't break teams down? in part that was because our movement wasn't good enough a lot of the time (that was an unpopular view at the time, probably still is now of that team, but was often the case).

I'll give an example from last night, that had me shouting at the TV, by coincidence it featured Bentaleb... Ball comes to him in left-centre midfield. Lennon is wide of him, Kane ahead of him, Someone else is infield further from Kane. Good opportunity to use the ball. However as he opens the field up and lets the ball run across to his left foot, Kane half peels across to show for the ball into the channel between centre half and full back, whoever our 3rd man was (Lamela possibly) comes haring across into the same sort of area and Lennon inexplicably when in space makes a horizontal run into this area also. It leaves three men in the same 5 yards, all dragging markers into that area, and no options to play a pass to. Bentaleb then lets it run across a bit further, because an opening presents itself for Davies to fill the space out wide if he's alert, see's it and bombs forward, but he is on his heels. Result is that Bentaleb has to turn back again and play the ball back where it came from...

It's just one example, but you can find many over 90 mins. To me its very shoddy stuff from professional footballers. When you get such substandard movement even the best passers are going to struggle to look good, beyond neat and tidy short and simple stuff.

Some of our players off the ball movement is an absolute joke,its like watching 6 year olds and for me the 2 biggest culprits in our squad are Lennon and Adebayor.
 

iluvsteffenfreund

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Joined
Nov 5, 2004
Messages
2,078
Bentaleb made the joint most tackles in the game, same as Stambouli - 6.

http://www.whoscored.com/Matches/88...-League-2014-2015-Partizan-Belgrade-Tottenham

I guess if you'd ever played the game or had any knowledge of what a team requires you'd know what a tackle looks like.
Sorry I should of said tackles won, You could if played in there and made 6 tackles, bit if you dangle your foot in and tackle like a fanny then it's not good enough for a c mid, if you have played the game you would realise this, anyway poch is the messiah let's see who he goes with in the big games and firstly on Sunday, It won't be bentaleb just so you know
 

iluvsteffenfreund

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Joined
Nov 5, 2004
Messages
2,078
Crap match on crap pitch, no real stand-outs for me, however in support of Bus-Conductor's Bentaleb point, Whoscored have an algorithm which measures what they've identified as a the key contributions a player makes, e.g. successful passes, tackles, interceptions, goals, assists, key passes, etc. by that measure he was our most effective player last night, edging Vertonghen by a smidgen, but verts benefitted fro a collective bonus awarded to the whole defence by the algorithm for not conceding last night.
So bentaleb should start for us Sunday then if we go by stats ? Stats can be misleading, watch the game he was poor, he won't start Sunday because he isn't fit to lace dembeles boots
 

mpickard2087

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Jun 13, 2008
Messages
19,450
Some of our players off the ball movement is an absolute joke,its like watching 6 year olds and for me the 2 biggest culprits in our squad are Lennon and Adebayor.
Its been a problem for years. As I said in the match ratings thread for the game, I was at Sunderland the other day for the game and, despite the majority being of the opinion that it was a good performance and we had fluid movement, what caught my eye was the amount of players virtually stood still every single time we have the ball. Its like they decide to let the player with the ball and a couple closest to him to do it all themselves as the rest watch. I don't know how professional footballers get into such bad habits.
 

Borks

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Jun 22, 2014
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1,524
Bentaleb clearly has all the attritubes to be a class player in the future. IMO he's been unlucky not to score and not to get a few assists; he has a great shot on him which we've seen multiple times last season and some of the through balls he's played would have been raved about were they by other players and ended up as a goal. The kid has real talent, is young and like others have said, is always looking for the ball. His job is to be that man who doesn't really get noticed but for all of the right reasons (keeping the ball moving quickly, give and go etc) and to me, he does that reasonably well.

The biggest negative for me is his lack of concentration defensively but he's only going to get better at that. Going forward I'd like to see him be more adventurous at times but I love the way he goes about his football, calm, composed and generally well aware of what's going on around him (that backheel for Chadli last season!). I'd like to see Poch play him slightly further forward because I think he can be that link up play between defence and attack that we've been missing for a while. Love his attitude though, really cares about the team.
 

robbiedee

Mama said knock you out
Joined
Jul 6, 2012
Messages
2,245
After the first minute when we went at them and Kane had his shot come of the bar I thought 'strap in this is going to be good'

Unfortunately that was about as good as it got. A bit of a yawn fest for me. Davies really struggled and got beaten a few times down the line.

It just seems, and I commented the same last season, our player don't create anything. They don't run in to space and provide passing options. It seems really congested through the middle and we very rarely went out wide.

Lennon doesn't have the pace to go past players these days and if Townsend does still have the pace he is predictable and at times sloppy and gets caught or blocked more often than not.

I wasn't a good game to watch and I guess the pitch contributed to that. I'll give Lloris MOM just because he did everything he needed to do and kept a clean sheet.
 
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Wow........why are you even mentioning the likes of Hoddle and Xavi when discussing the merits of our 19 year old midfielder?
I'm not saying I'm expecting him to be that good, I'm saying that the argument of 'people aren't making runs for him' is mitigated when you consider how genuinely good users of a football approached the game.

A better comparison would be Javk Wilshere then. He's a good, sometimes very good, but inconsistent player. At Bentaleb's age he saw similar amounts of the ball. At Bentaleb's age he was infinitely more ambitious, imaginative, dynamic and proactive with the ball.
 
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Agree. However dembele has all the attributes to be one of the best. Just listen to players that have played with him the likes of Danny Murphy says he is one of the best midfielders he has played with, my mates who are all Chelsea still maintain when he played against them for Fulham he was the best player they had seen in an opposition shirt! Poch will get more out of him I'm sure. Moussa has the ability to affect a football match and win a game for us. Bentaleb does not neither does capoue, don't get me wrong you need all types of players in a side to compliment the other but moussa is far too good when fit not to be in our side. Poch has seen that and he will start Sunday
Agree that Dembele seems the most likely, and he's certainly the one I have most faith in, but fair is fair, he's guilty of the same accusations I'm levelling at Bentaleb and has been for a while.

How Pochettino works with all four of our jacks of all trades will be interesting. Let's hope they can all become a master of something.
 

sloth

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So bentaleb should start for us Sunday then if we go by stats ? Stats can be misleading, watch the game he was poor, he won't start Sunday because he isn't fit to lace dembeles boots
I'm not saying that the measure is correct, my opinion was the match was a bit crap, and no one covered themselves in glory. In a kingdom of meh though, the guy who was a tiny bit better is king... or something... So, in terms of evidence for BC's view, I think it lends support to it, and at the least we can say it's not a crazy thing for him to have thought, and in fact is a reasonable conclusion to draw even if you don't agree with it.

In terms of the general philosophical point you make, I think we can all agree that choosing a team is about million things not covered by stats, if it was only about stats we could just get the computer to choose the team each week. We also all agree that stats can be a useful tool, and that just because they don't tell the whole story doesn't mean they don't tell part of it, or that the part they tell can't be enlightening, even if, in the wrong hands, they can make a mess of stuff too.
 

InOffMeLeftShin

Night watchman
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It just seems, and I commented the same last season, our player don't create anything. They don't run in to space and provide passing options. It seems really congested through the middle and we very rarely went out wide.
Yeh this has been a recurring issue for a while. We are looking better in terms of pressing and looking better on the break where we can attack open spaces but when it gets congested we really don't do enough. Not enough movement, trying to pass from too deep into feet and lacking a clear strategy to expose opposition. To be fair it's going to take a while to change anything and there have been positive improvements in other areas. Maybe this will come with time (and when our slightly sharper players are playing).
 

stemark44

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Bentaleb clearly has all the attritubes to be a class player in the future. IMO he's been unlucky not to score and not to get a few assists; he has a great shot on him which we've seen multiple times last season and some of the through balls he's played would have been raved about were they by other players and ended up as a goal. The kid has real talent, is young and like others have said, is always looking for the ball. His job is to be that man who doesn't really get noticed but for all of the right reasons (keeping the ball moving quickly, give and go etc) and to me, he does that reasonably well.

The biggest negative for me is his lack of concentration defensively but he's only going to get better at that. Going forward I'd like to see him be more adventurous at times but I love the way he goes about his football, calm, composed and generally well aware of what's going on around him (that backheel for Chadli last season!). I'd like to see Poch play him slightly further forward because I think he can be that link up play between defence and attack that we've been missing for a while. Love his attitude though, really cares about the team.
I would agree with this point and hopefully the young lad will improve in that area but for me someone like Capoue is far worse,in fact I would place him at the center of every goal we have conceeded so far in the league this season.
 

stemark44

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Agree that Dembele seems the most likely, and he's certainly the one I have most faith in, but fair is fair, he's guilty of the same accusations I'm levelling at Bentaleb and has been for a while.

How Pochettino works with all four of our jacks of all trades will be interesting. Let's hope they can all become a master of something.
The difference in ability between all 4 of our midfielders is currently tiny and I don't think we would see any real difference in our play regardless of which pairing the manager selected.
I am hoping that Dembele can get back to where he was 2 seasons back and I am hoping Bentaleb fulfils his potential,I am hoping that Capoue becomes less lanquid and more determined and that Strambouli turns out to be a quality buy but at this moment its still only hope.
 
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The difference in ability between all 4 of our midfielders is currently tiny and I don't think we would see any real difference in our play regardless of which pairing the manager selected.
I am hoping that Dembele can get back to where he was 2 seasons back and I am hoping Bentaleb fulfils his potential,I am hoping that Capoue becomes less lanquid and more determined and that Strambouli turns out to be a quality buy but at this moment its still only hope.
If Pochettino can turn Lambert into one of the leagues most effective strikers, I'm hopeful that he can take a midfielder of Dembele's obvious immense ability and add the currently lacking mental element to mould him into the midfielder we need him to be.
 

stemark44

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If Pochettino can turn Lambert into one of the leagues most effective strikers, I'm hopeful that he can take a midfielder of Dembele's obvious immense ability and add the currently lacking mental element to mould him into the midfielder we need him to be.
Yeah I forgot to mention that I am also hoping Poch turns out to be a good coach and someone who can improve the majority of our squad into better players than they currently are.
 

WestBelfast Spurs

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Fazio and Vert has to be our best CB pairing going forward

Capoue and Benji in the protection role we are going to be very hard to beat our front 4 will thrive knowing they have that freedom up the pitch - my onion
 

jezz

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I would agree with this point and hopefully the young lad will improve in that area but for me someone like Capoue is far worse,in fact I would place him at the center of every goal we have conceeded so far in the league this season.
Err I thought Dier pulled Allen back?
Didn't Townsend lose the ball and give up tracking back?
Capoue gave away a free kick, but he didn't head it in.
How is Johnsons goal his fault?
I would say you're making up stuff to fit your agenda.
Are you Tim Sherwood?
 
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