Ratings vs Partizan Belgrade

MOM

  • Lloris

    Votes: 13 6.5%
  • Davies

    Votes: 1 0.5%
  • Verts

    Votes: 60 29.9%
  • Fazio

    Votes: 39 19.4%
  • Naughton

    Votes: 2 1.0%
  • Bentaleb

    Votes: 11 5.5%
  • Stambouli

    Votes: 50 24.9%
  • Lennon

    Votes: 3 1.5%
  • Paulinho

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Townsend

    Votes: 4 2.0%
  • Kane

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Lamela

    Votes: 2 1.0%
  • Soldado

    Votes: 2 1.0%
  • Capoue

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • No one

    Votes: 14 7.0%

  • Total voters
    201
Joined
Jan 29, 2011
Messages
146
For us folk who have no access to these games can someone go into more detail? I am very interested to hear why Davies was so poor... not just read ratings and small snippets of how good or how shit they were.

Gave away the ball numerous times, Panicking under pressure (pitch) missing simple 15/20 yard passes and playing unnecessary long balls to no-one in particular. He got yellow carded as he got skinned a couple times and brought down their player in a dangerous area...... But he can take a decent corner! Start him in the league Poch :meh:
 

Jamturk

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 13, 2008
Messages
5,407
Responsibility for what BBLG ? Having four dimwits ahead of him and one each side for most of the game ? Hardly fair we blame the 19yo kid for that.

But I believe to give your attackers a chance you need 1 of the midfielders to break the lines therefore creating more space for your attackers to exploit.

This is why Modric is a superb player he makes the space for the assister by a drop of a shoulder, an incisive touch just brilliance.

I have never seen Bentaleb play 1 pass or 1 movement in this vain. A nothing player

Dembele is our only central midfielder who could fill this void at the moment.

Your Bentalebs, Paulinhos will never offer this and are not good enough defensively so in essence they are a waste of space. Better off playing Mason IMO.

Unless of course you are happy with 0-0 draws.
 
Joined
Oct 19, 2004
Messages
38,840
Stambouli broke up several attacks with good tackles, winning the ball both deep and high up, which as far as I'm aware is his role. Bebtaleb is a different player, he's one who much play goes through and therefore he is one who I expect to use that possession in an effective way. At present he is a crab.

Calling him a crab is really unimaginative and inaccurate. As MP demonstrates in the post below, when the movement and opportunity is there Bentaleb has demonstrated an ability and vision to play an incisive pass.

But lets use one of the best players of his ilk in the world - Modric - as a template.

With Modric in our team, playing in a CM2, we failed to win nine of our homes games under Redknapp in 11-12 and he had VDV & Bale. Was that because he was a crab who didn't create enough ?

In RM home game against Cordoba this season Modric played 54% of his passes forwards, 29% backwards and 16% square. In our game against QPR Bentaleb played 52% of his forward, 26% back and 21% square . So Modric played 45% sideways and backwards, Bentaleb 47%. Both created one chance in open play. Both players played some good football in those games, seeing lots of ball and recycling it with speed and at times progression. But here's the rub, Modric was playing in a 433, with Kroos and Hamez, with Ronaldo, Bale and Benzema ahead of him. Bentaleb was playing in a CM2 with Capoue, with Lamela, Eriksen, Chadli and Adebayor ahead. Modric is 10 years older.

And I'm not saying he's close to being as good as Modric but, I'd say if he's crab, he's in good company.




I think the criticism of Bentaleb is harsh. He does lose concentration at times and there are clearly areas that he needs to improve on but as is always said, he's 19. Even if he does have a dip in performance, such as in the second half last night, the kid never ever hides and always wants the ball.

As for his passing, yes he keeps the ball patiently... But this season already I have seen clear evidence of him showing a different range of passing in his armoury. On a few occasions this season he's played the surprise accurate clipped ball in behind the defence, and if it wasn't for poor finishing (Ade vs. 'Pool), a poor touch (Eriksen vs. QPR) or an inch or two more precision (last night's pass for Lennon) then he could have 3-4 assists already. Problem is with such a lack of movement still and players not really running in behind a lot there are only so many occasions you can play these type of passes.
 

iluvsteffenfreund

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 5, 2004
Messages
2,078
Calling him a crab is really unimaginative and inaccurate. As MP demonstrates in the post below, when the movement and opportunity is there Bentaleb has demonstrated an ability and vision to play an incisive pass.

But lets use one of the best players of his ilk in the world - Modric - as a template.

With Modric in our team, playing in a CM2, we failed to win nine of our homes games under Redknapp in 11-12 and he had VDV & Bale. Was that because he was a crab who didn't create enough ?

In RM home game against Cordoba this season Modric played 54% of his passes forwards, 29% backwards and 16% square. In our game against QPR Bentaleb played 52% of his forward, 26% back and 21% square . So Modric played 45% sideways and backwards, Bentaleb 47%. Both created one chance in open play. Both players played some good football in those games, seeing lots of ball and recycling it with speed and at times progression. But here's the rub, Modric was playing in a 433, with Kroos and Hamez, with Ronaldo, Bale and Benzema ahead of him. Bentaleb was playing in a CM2 with Capoue, with Lamela, Eriksen, Chadli and Adebayor ahead. Modric is 10 years older.

And I'm not saying he's close to being as good as Modric but, I'd say if he's crab, he's in good company.
So you think he is good enough to start for us week in week out ? And would he get in any of the last seasons top 5 first 11 ?
 
Joined
Oct 19, 2004
Messages
38,840
So you think he is good enough to start for us week in week out ? And would he get in any of the last seasons top 5 first 11 ?
It's not that simple and it doesn't have to be. I'm not saying that Bentaleb should start every single game, there's very few players if any who earn that right, and he's a long way from that. And I don't dislike Dembele, especially on a very good day. And of course it depends on the tactics, formation and system as well. Bentaleb has some learning to do, he needs to learn to track his man off the ball, he needs to be better without the ball. I would prefer him played in a 433. But I would prefer most of our cm's including Dembele played in that format.

But right now I prefer what Bentaleb offers to what Dembele does on many occasions. I think he shows for the ball more and he moves it quicker. I think his game - and his character - shows a maturity and composure way beyond his years, but he is still just 19 and we have to remember that.

Bentaleb has some learning to do, he needs to learn to track his man off the ball, he needs to be better without the ball

Dembele - I'm using him for comparison because you seem to think he's the preferred option - has a habit of hanging on to the ball too long, slowing down transitional moments. And on bad days the opposition get about him while he's trying to dribble in midfield and it puts us in compromising position. IMO his skilset is more suited to playing further forward, but even there his productivity is pretty woeful, and that was true even when he was playing as an attacker earlier in his career.

In answer to your second question, I think Bentaleb could easily have played in Liverpool's team, especially in their 433. Joe Allan did and he's a very similar type. And I think Wenger would also have no problem picking someone with his attributes, and nor would Martinez.

 

iluvsteffenfreund

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 5, 2004
Messages
2,078
It's not that simple and it doesn't have to be. I'm not saying that Bentaleb should start every single game, there's very few players if any who earn that right, and he's a long way from that. And I don't dislike Dembele, especially on a very good day. And of course it depends on the tactics, formation and system as well. Bentaleb has some learning to do, he needs to learn to track his man off the ball, he needs to be better without the ball. I would prefer him played in a 433. But I would prefer most of our cm's including Dembele played in that format.

But right now I prefer what Bentaleb offers to what Dembele does on many occasions. I think he shows for the ball more and he moves it quicker. I think his game - and his character - shows a maturity and composure way beyond his years, but he is still just 19 and we have to remember that.

Bentaleb has some learning to do, he needs to learn to track his man off the ball, he needs to be better without the ball

Dembele - I'm using him for comparison because you seem to think he's the preferred option - has a habit of hanging on to the ball too long, slowing down transitional moments. And on bad days the opposition get about him while he's trying to dribble in midfield and it puts us in compromising position. IMO his skilset is more suited to playing further forward, but even there his productivity is pretty woeful, and that was true even when he was playing as an attacker earlier in his career.

In answer to your second question, I think Bentaleb could easily have played in Liverpool's team, especially in their 433. Joe Allan did and he's a very similar type. And I think Wenger would also have no problem picking someone with his attributes, and nor would Martinez.
Good post, I think we have to agree to disagree on this one... Moussa for me is on a different planet to nabil and I have spoken to players who have played against both, moussa needs to produce on a more consistent basis then he can be classed as world class. Poch is the man to bring it out of him for me